laujesse

iTrader: (19)

For quite some time now I have struggled to find an actual valid MAZDA origin of the term "series" and failed, maybe someone here can help. (Wikipedia certainly does not count) Why that matters is when someone attempts to order parts based on "series" or model year it often ends in failure, if it is complete nonsense as a community we could do well to get rid of it.

I could not tell you the first thing about SA22, or FC3S RX-7's("series 1-5"?), but I do know the FD3S like the back of my hand so that is what I will focus on in this first post.

When in comes to the JDM/INTL RHD FD3S RX-7 and finding parts for it. Your "model year" is not the same thing in Japan as everyone in the US or Australia is used to. The year of the car is determined by the date it is first registered in Japan, NOTHING else. IE: There are a small handful of "1998" FD's that are 5型, and a small handful of FD's that are "1999" and 4型.

The "year" or "series" based on year to my estimation is not a valid way to asses the type of FD3S you need parts for. Only the frame number can do this without possibility of error. Once again, the "型" is easily identified by the first number of the frame after fd3s. Here is a rudimentary way to look at it with only fundamental changes listed.

1型-"Typically" was 1991-1994 (8bit ecu) (most USDM FD3S RX-7's were very similar)
2型-"Typically" was 1993-1994 (8bit ecu) (2型 got R134a AC)
3型-"Typically" was 1995-1995 (8bit ecu) (3型 got an upgraded ABS)
4型 "Typically" was 1996-1998 (16bit ecu) (265PS)
5型 "Typically" was 1999-2000 (16bit ecu) (Updated gauge cluster)(Had 280PS, and 265PS versions)
6型 "Typically" was 2000-2003 (16bit ecu) (Updated gauge cluster)(Had 280PS, and 265PS versions) (Updated ABS)

This is why the Japanese never refer to them by year but only by the first number after FD3S in the frame number. As the JDM FD3S RX-7 turns 25 years old and starts getting imported this year to the US, this will start to be much more relevant to this forum in the near future. Look forward to the discussion.

Spalato

iTrader: (33)

This is great, I'm all for this.

Not sure if this will help, but when you go to rhdjapan and select make and model (mazda rx7 obviously) you get to also select "engine", in the drop down menu there is a list of different FD series models which lists the months and dates of each series. Not sure how legitimate this is but its a good starting point

I'm also aware that the ABS was updated 3 times, which means there are 4 different ABS setups.

The first ABS update was on the series 2 '94+ cars

The second I believe was from '99 to 2000

The third ABS update was from late 2000/early 2001 to the end of production

laujesse

iTrader: (19)

This is a problem created by, and for, an English speaker applying their "year" system paradigm to a system that is not compatible. Good for sales... bad for ordering a part that fits.

Of the 90 or so FD's over the years that have past through my hands, there have been at least 6 that did not fit neatly into the year system listed in rhdjapan which is a significant enough percentage to be a concern.

billyboy

The parts manual has the the small graphic with break down by western year and the Emperor's reign, starting for the FD in H3. All 6 versions had their own ABS systems if you wanted to be pedantic, the most alike were V1 and V2 and V3 and V4.

laujesse

iTrader: (19)

The Japanese MAZDA service and parts manuals are guilty of this even though they know better, in a perfect world these dates would be valid, these are a cut off dates that MAZDA pushed out to the dealers, unfortunately there are several factors involved. First the dealer has to respond on time, that is not always the case because if the dealership registers it, they have to sell it as a one owner not new, and then vice versa if a customer is really pushing to get their new car in the driveway it can be early, then if it fails the government inspection and if it needs repair the registration date is pushed to whenever that is.

Manufacture dates are not published anywhere by MAZDA so with RHD RX-7's all we have to go off of is the unpredictable initial registration date. As an example, when I bought a 2003 Spirit R Type A back in 2004, had several Cliff Claven types on the internet inform me in their sassiest internet font that my car does not exist because they stopped making them in 2002, the majority of Spirit R frames were 2003. Another one is the October 1994 1型 sitting in my yard, they were supposed to only be sold until August 1993 according to the service manual.

FührerTüner

iTrader: (5)

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Redbul

iTrader: (26)

There is a Russian Site that is linked to a Japanese Site that gives actual dates of production. The search is done by VIN number. This is because some countries require the production date rather than registration date.


The attached table gives a rough summary of the production by VIN number. Note: I divide years by H1 and H2, but the switch over from version numbers does not necessarily happen in mid-year.

laujesse

iTrader: (19)

That is great info, thank you.

If you have the link please post it.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i think the series thing comes from Australia.

in the USA we use the model year, which is a fictional way that we note safety and emissions standards. the best example of this in the Mazda world is the V1 FD. the US models were built from 12/28/1991 to about May of 1992, yet they are 1993 model year cars as they meet the US safety and emissions standards for 1993.

Mazda USA just uses year, and model, nothing else.

i do see in Japan they use the Version number for the FD, and Zenki/Kouki for the FC (or MMC, Major Minor Change or not).

KYPREO

Australia does use this terminology, but so does NZ and UK as well.

Mazda Australia has always marketed the cars by series and it goes back all the way to the 70s Mazdas. For 1st gen RX-7s it is even more necessary to refer to series, because we do not have any distinction between SA and FB - ours all have SA22C chassis numbers, as do JDM models. EDIT: I should clarify that Series 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc is official Mazda Australia naming.

We had the series 6 RX-7 from 93-95 and the series 7 from 96-98. The "series 8" as we call it was never released in Australia, but I'm reasonably confident we just made up the term to refer to the new model that logically came after series 7. In Japan they refer to them as Version V (99-00) and Version VI (01-02) and not series 8.

laujesse

iTrader: (19)

Curious, do all FD's in Australia have vins that start with FD3S-X as well like in Japan?

If anyone knows this for the euro versions as well please post it.

KYPREO

Nope. Australian delivered VINs start with JM0FD103xxxx with the following numbers giving you the model year/Japanese version number.

i can dig up the exact numbering system if it helps.

Redbul

iTrader: (26)

My study of the VIN numbers and other sources of production numbers shows a gap, of about 2000 units, unaccounted for. I wonder if Australian cars, being RHD, where substantially JDM, and therefore included in the Japan production run numbers. Is there any correlation between the Australia VIN and the JDM VIN? Does the order of the known Australian VIN give an idea of how many cars were originally imported to Australia? Is it true JDM made in 1998 or older are not eligible for Australian import (at least in register-able condition)?


It seems likely that original Canadian import cars were mixed in with USDM production, although one number in the VIN denotes "Canada". I have heard that up to about 2000 Canadian DM cars came to Canada, but it is not clear if they were included in the "Terry Hahn" figures for USDM or not. The Canadian DM were unique in having headlight washers. They may also have had daytime running light wiring configuration.

KYPREO

The JM- prefix designates export. To my knowledge only JDM got FD3S.

The next number before FD designates export region.

from my research:

JM0 = Australia

JM1 = America

JMZ = Europe

on the Australian models:

JMOFD103100100001 onwards means version 1 ie 92/93 (series 6)
JMOFD103200100001 onwards means version 2 ie 93/4
JMOFD103300100001 onwards means version 3 ie 95
JMOFD103400100001 onwards means version 4 ie 96-98 (series 7)

Vehicles for each series were numbered sequentially.

It is possible to figure out production numbers by manually plugging every VIN combination in order into the Australian EPC. Guys have actually done that to figure out every known s6, s7 and SP edition (homologated version made to allow Mazda to compete at Bathurst).

The total number of Australian delivered FDs is 441: 333 series 6 and 108 series 7.

breakdown by colour is as follows:

• Vintage Red, 186.
• Montego Blue, 160.
• Silverstone, 46.
• Brilliant Black, 25.
• Polar White, 24.

Credit Gomez on www.fdrx7.com for compiling this data.

Here's the SP data: http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=157658

We can legally import any JDM rx7 now and have been able to import series 8s for a long time. The car has to be either 15 years old or never sold here (ie series 8). There are many more imports than local delivered models these days.

Hope that helps!

Redbul

iTrader: (26)

Thanks for the excellent info. If I add that 441 to the 1151 reported to have gone to Europe that leaves about 489 not accounted for. Perhaps "rest of world". We see on Ebay cars being parted out in Malaysia and Thailand. Would be interesting if these were original exports or cars bought on auction for parting out.

Redbul

iTrader: (26)

Here are some tables from the back of the USDM parts catalogue. Note it says production period from December 91 to Aug 93. There also seems to be a different spec for Guam and Saipan.

Redbul

iTrader: (26)

Wikipedia is also a source for naming Series 8 for the 1999 to 2002 models. Not sure of their source.


Also I have seen reference in Japanese manuals to a "middle period" ( I suppose Series 7) So you have Zenki (before period); ???( middle period); and Kouki (later period). We use Kouki mainly for the 99+ front and 99+ tails, but I suppose it would refer to all the Series 8 modifications as belonging to the kouki era.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i have the warranty report for the first US FD and its 12/28/92. so we can confirm that one. the JDM magazines i have usually have a 10/92 date, so perhaps the RHD cars started earlier.

can't confirm the end date, they made too many 93's to run them all.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i'm not sure what you mean by missing, but i can tell you that the first real US car was in the 130 range. there are cars for emissions and crash tests, magazine tests, things like that. Peter Ferrell got 5.

i have seen #116, it looked to have been a preproduction car, it was a red base, with the 929 style badges, more square.

so my point is that the US cars don't start with JM1FD332xP0200001, they start around JM1FD332xP0200130. or rather they did start with 1, but the first 100 odd cars were not sold.

Redbul

iTrader: (26)

Guy in our group has a 93 Canadian spec. He has original dealer invoice in Ontario, Canada, for April 1992. So it is a very early car. As the USDM parts catalogue shows, USDM were likely in production as early as the last two months of 1991. Road & Track was testing a preproduction LHD prototype in April, 1991. Looked pretty much like a production car. For JDM, the first 30, or so, cars of each "version" do not show up in the database. Not sure the reason, but I would suspect some cars would have been used in crash testing.


The JDM VIN numbers seem to flow pretty much in time order, although they get a bit out of sequence over year-ends (Japanese new years lasts about 6 days!). I wonder when VIN are actually assigned. It is interesting that the cars do not seem to have been made in large batches of similar examples. Looking at the database, it is more likely that, from car to car, the colour, transmission, model type, etc., changes randomly. I wonder if this is an indicator that they were planning production, at least in later years, based on pre-orders.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i ran a bunch of warranty histories, this gives build date, colors, engine number, and sell date.

the FD's were made in batches, there will be 3-4 red ones, 2-3 yellow ones all made in the same day, the vins will be close, but not quite sequential. you have to remember that the FD was made on the same assembly lines as the protege, 323 and some other stuff.

i can't comment on where the JDM cars would be in the mix, although we do have another fun bit of trivia:

if there is a FD3S-200201 for Japan, there is also a JM1FD332xP0200201 for the US, JMZFD332xP0200201 for Europe, and a JM0FD332xP0200201 for Australia

as for when the Vin is assigned, i do not know. however the educated guess says its assigned fairly early, as they have a production schedule, with different cars, and thus they not only need to make sure they have all the bits to build an FD, but it needs to be in the correct order too. i do not know about Mazda, but Volvo is scheduled 3-4 months ahead of time. build date seems to be when the car was built, its a modern factory, car is built in a few hours.

Redbul

iTrader: (26)

JM1FD332xP0200201 would be Canada I believe. According to the parts catalogue 331 was US and 332 was Canada. It also says both Canada and the US fell under JM1.


Another source says there was also a "333" for specific models. (maybe Banzai Racing site)

KYPREO

I imagine that UK, Commonwealth and other RHD countries will have their own VIN prefix(es). I know they were grouped together by Mazda for 1st gen RX7s. This could account for the "missing" production numbers. The main markets apart from the UK would be New Zealand, South Africa, Malaysia, Thailand and Cyprus (i see quite a few FDs whenever I'm there).

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

oh i got that backwards! the 333 means dual airbag, 94-95 US

Redbul

iTrader: (26)

I was once told that we might find a members' VIN list thread on here. I have not found it yet. Maybe in archives? Do you recall such a list?


I'd like to find evidence of a Canadian VIN fitting in sequence between US VIN. Rather than the Canadian cars having their own sequence.