TimWilbers

iTrader: (1)

This started about 3 years ago after replacing tires and alignment at 158K. Currently has 164k miles.
Old Cooper tires had splitting sidewalls.
Replaced with Kenda Kenetica 185/70/13, which is the original spec when the car was delivered.

The squeal started after the new tires and alignment (image of readout attached), but only on curves when I believe a front tire went over the tar sealant strips on a blacktop road. Ambient temperature did not appear to be a factor. Happened at 80+ degrees all the way down to the 40’s.

Is this an alignment issue, or perhaps bad (cheap, old as is sitting around 10 years) tires?
Or possibly something else?

What I’ve replaced on the front after the new tires and squealing started:
Idler arm.
Inside and outside tie-rods, left and right.
LCR’s left and right (right ball-joint shot).
Sway bar bushings and control links.
Torsion bar bushings, left and right.
Shock absorbers, left and right (right was shot), and both strut top mounts.

Also re-greased and set the free-play on the front bearings, and set the toe-in using the string method.
The struts are set for Max Camber / Max Caster.

Tired different tire pressures: 28 to 33. Verified with 3 different tire gauges.

No change, the squeal was still happening.

It also does a bump-steer. Hit a bump and it self-steers.
Steering wheel free-play is at 1 1/4” and the adjustment is near its limit.

I did notice with all 4 wheels on the ground, if I pulled a rear tire at the top, it flexed at the bottom as did the front tire. I could wobble the whole car this way.

Currently working on replacing the rear shocks, anti-sway bar bushings and control links. Pic of original control links attached, and yes I had to cut the bolt heads off as the bolts were rust-welded into the sleeves.
Any ideas would be most welcomed.

redlightrich

iTrader: (1)

I may be reading it wrong, or there is more to this that is not included. but it is showing camber, toe and caster out of spec.

Camber and toe will make the tires squeal.

Also, tires are date coded. Find the code and look it up. You will see when they were made. I don't like to use tires older than 4 years as they become hard, and lose their ability to grip.

Keep in mind though, we have 13 inch tires, with not many choices.

Good luck

Rich

elwood

iTrader: (1)

I'm a bit confused by your post. Were the Kendra tires that you put on the car 3 years ago already old?

If your tires are over 10 years old, I would consider replacing them. I had the personal debate over replacing my 12 year old tires on my daily driver '84 until my wife (the one who doesn't appreciate automotive expenses) said I should "stop being stupid and get some safe tires." Her words exactly. The new tires are the same brand (Dunlop), and they're much softer with more grip.

If you still have any issues after replacing the tires, try visiting a good alignment shop. I have no idea how good the shop you used is, but I've had some bad experiences with some of the popular chains, especially if they're busy at the time.

GSLSEforme

Are your strut tops adjusted for maximum-camber &maximum + caster? Doesn't seem like it by the camber readings shown..should be back toward firewall and in toward engine compartment,if not start there. Redo your string toe set after and drive and see.. Not a great alignment by what i see in readout. Quality of alignment a lot of times depends on where you have it done(equipment) & who does it(skills/work ethic). A lot of places set the toe only and push you out the door,telling you you need to replace this or that & don't even attempt to do any other adjustments to an "old" car. I own several vehicles and in the past was frustrated at alignment shops inability to return a good alignment WITH a straight steering wheel, even when it was a maintenance alignment for new tires i installed recently and steering wheel was straight when took it to alignment shop. Alignments cost best part of$100 dollars-they have no trouble taking your money,but after 2,3 return trips to make it right & them ultimately telling me they can,t get a straight steering wheel for whatever reason:your tires,something bent,etc..i CAN read the printout & know they're full of shi* & call them on it and demand my money back. I am fortunate in that i have a longtime friend who has an auto repair facility and a brand new Hunter rack that for a case of beer after close of business on a Saturday afternoon allows me as much rack time as i want/need. If after you're certain there's no play in components & your alignment is close and still squeals,start suspecting tires. I'm more familiar with Kenda motorcycle tires and while their more expensive tires handle and wear well, their cheaper tire about the best you can say is they're round,black &hold air... maybe someone located close to you would allow you to swap out your wheel/tire setup long enough for a road test to see if that's the culprit. GL

TimWilbers

iTrader: (1)

Sequence of events:
Replaced all 4 tires with the Kenda's 3 years ago. That is when I had the alignment done as shown in the image.

Because of the squealing I started looking at the suspension and noticed multiple issues.
Redoing the suspension last year had no effect on the squealing.

@ Rich. Thanks for the tire code. I did find it and the set was manufactured in mid-2012. The tires were relatively new when I bought them.

@ Elwood. Tire Discounters did the alignment and they never seem to be able to center the steering wheel. Happened on our E250 van and I re-centered it myself. I'm going to ask the shop I take the van's to when I don't have the time or the task is beyond my skill/tool set, for their recommendation for a good alignment.

@ GSLSEforme. Yes, both strut tops are set for maximum camber and maximum caster, now. When I redid the front in and replaced the strut tops, that's how I set them: back and inboard. I cannot confirm if they were set that way when the alignment was done. But looking through all the photos made when I rebuilt the 12a (after the shop alignment), the right side appears to have been set back and inboard. But the left side, the white mark is set forward to the outside.

Once I get the rear end put back together, I'll redo the alignment via the string method and retest.

Thanks for the help.

LongDuck

I would also have a close look at ALL of your other bushings under there, as if the rear sway-bar mounts are any indication - they will ALL be heavily worn or missing if you haven't replaced them.

Take particular note of the front Radius Arm bushings which are 3" in diameter and sandwiched between the heavy mounts at the front of the frame. If these aren't under proper tension (or length), then they'll allow the Control Arm to shift under cornering. About 10yrs back, I replaced most of the bushings with Poly and never looked back. The only exception I made was on the Lower Control Arm, as I want pliability on that joint to help isolate road noise and vibration through the frame.

As the others have said, your toe settings could be a factor particularly if you're getting bump-steer. That's never a good thing, but could be a combination of factors like worn bushings elsewhere in the system - including steering gear.

SteveNC

Alignment and everything was adjusted in a shop when tires were purchased, but not after all the suspension work? I would recheck everything, but the bump steer makes me think something is wrong with the suspension. Are the tires wearing uneven at all? Perhaps when the right shock was bad you hit something which caused a part to bend, or which didn't go together correctly. Just sounds like something is binding up. LongDuck makes a good point on the rear bumps too.

TimWilbers

iTrader: (1)

Had some issues at work, so I was delayed responding.

The rear sway-bar control links were so rusted I had to cut the bolt heads off to free them from the mounting brackets. I purchased a used set of rear upper and lower links. I was able to get both right ones off, and the upper left one. The front bolt on the lower right came out, but the rear bolt is rust-welded into the sleeve. I compared my "old" to the newly purchased and mine were in slightly better condition and the rubber was actually a bit softer. On the lower left link with the front bolt remove I could easily move the front up and down and it would spring back into position. I decided to put my old ones back in as I understand it, softer is better. I still need to pull the watt links out for inspection and compare to the newly purchased.

I did notice the rear anti-sway bar is not symmetrical left to right in that the right side has a dip to clear the outside right watt links bracket. I assume the dip is correct.

When I worked on the front end I did replace the 3'' bushings. I even counted the number of exposed threads in the front and set them the same when torquing to the 90 ft/lbs.

The shop alignment was done upon purchase of the tires. The front suspension work was done after that. I did do the string toe-in setting, but then realized more needed to be done. I replaced the front shocks and the strut tops and reset the front wheel bearings. No subsequent alignment work as been done yet.

I need to finish the rear then get it aligned. Then go from there.

Our weather is turning much better and I want to get this done. It has been a long time since I went for a drive.