Wolf 3D V4 Map
 

Gentlemen,

I just rebuilt my 13b motor, porting, non sequencial, 3mm seals etc, and stuck in a WireIn Wolf3dV4+. At the moment I am doing those dreaded 2000km for running in. Occasionally I do hear that painfull knock. Does anyone have a Fuel Ignition Map so I can start off from somewhere....my RX is at a loss...and me even more!!

Thanks a million....

you can hear it knock!! if your breaking it in you really shouldn't be boosting that much, and if your not, it's damn near impossible for that to be detonating. Describe the sound your hearing.

.... actually on the Laptop with the wolf program running I am registering 0.8psi.It sounds like a clicking noise created when u hit the engine housing with a spanner.It's quite audible especially,at 3000-4500rpm, on third gear. I know i have the base map wrong coz I had to set it up myself....and the fuel ignition timeing is no good i think. Thats why i was wondering perhaps i could find a good base map ...

will fc2s maps work?

Compary your map to NYT's. He's posted some of his maps in this forum.

check your timing!

hi evilrotor...thanks i will. I will post a copy of my current 'break in' Maps. I am running 550 pri inj, 850sec inj. street port and 3mm seals. I will post some time today the may since its at my mech laptop. Perhaps you can figure out mt mess....ps my wolf is a V4+ wire in.

cheers....and yes my ignition map is not very flowing!!

folks... I just got my Map. Can anyone give me some guidelines?

thanks....

I will compare it to my ignition map when I get home. What octane gas do you have in Malta?

thanks....we run lead replacement petrol. It should be 88 to 90. we get hopeless fuel here!!

Am working on a new map altogether at the moment.... I will post it in a while....tell me what you think.

regards and a million thanks....actually...here it is...

fuel additives
 

you need to look into fuel additives. try this:

http://www.jbsblownc5.com/

or mixing 30% xylene or toluene

ok, so the first fuel map, its gonna run like crap, staging is all messed up, fuel injectors will go static up top if youre in boost, ignition map is on the conservative side but still might be too much for your gas there.

the experimental map looks like my fuel/ignition maps. the ignition map may again be too aggressive for your fuel there, and the fuel map will not work right unless you copy my staging settings also. You have to make sure you get the full range in the settings (since wolf software is buggy, go into fuel map, with 125 rpm increments, then go to staging and copy what i had there.) and the rpm should be 100% across the board since its a factor of load.

also, i have 550cc primaries and 1680cc secondaries so youre also going to have to consider that. but if you do a fuel map like that in experimental, it was meant to be used with staging like this:
http://www.countercultured.net/pics/staging.jpg

sure NYT, thanks for the hint i will...(even during breaking in?) Thanks for the maps you posted.... I am basing an new map on those. I should be a bit closer i hope....

yes actually i was basing the fuel and ignition on your maps....I will re set my staging. With regards to the fuel ,I am running 850 second injtrs. I reduced by 0.6 on your fuel map values....
does it look better for my set up??

thanks for your trouble....

the map with more work on....the mods on the staging nyt said to do, are done....fuel map had all values decreased by .6, slightly leaner to compensate for the smaller secondary injctrs....

I was wondering if the idle speed should be reduced to at least 950.... i think it is a bit too high at 1500...comments? thanks folks!!

Hmm, I hope you are not making a mistake here.

Your boost load band fueling should be INCREASED because of your smaller secondary's. He has bigger injectors, therefore lower pulsewidths...you will need higher pulse to supply same amount of fuel with smaller injectors.

Also, I would say your ignition timing is too much for your 'bad' gasoline. I have a 91 Octane map for my car, I will input my values...

I would say 1500rpm is fine for break-in, but your car should be able to idle at stock eventually.

you need more fuel when the secondaries come on since you have smaller injectors. Id be very careful of how much boost you run with that setup. I wouldnt push it much past 10psi. with your gas, even 10psi would scare me =]

ok....back to the drawing board... thank you gentlemen.... I will post tyhe new map soon, using MORE fuel on the load band and evilrotor's ignition table.


...soon

so, this is the new modified map. I think it should be quite close....what you think gentlemen?

with my first map i could'nt get my boost controlled. it stuck at 0.8psi round 5000rpm....guess now, i should be better on boost control.

Any ideas for the knock sensor?

ignition looks a little better... fuel will still be off id assume. i have 3320cc's of injectors in my secondaries... you have 1700.. a little over half of that... it doesnt seem like youre taking that into consideration enough. you should not tune your fuel maps based on someone elses, you need to start pig rich and lean it out till it stops breaking up from being too rich

...yeh, my problem is to get on dyno here. I am trying to get close to my figures,then I get to the serious tuning. The fuel figures in the new map are not very far off from the first map. So you reckon i should increas the pulse band by about forty percent? would that strt to do something? sorry i am giving you so much hassle....its is very much appreciated!! I would start the 40% increase by 50% load, and use the stage injection figures as a guidline for increase?

since your secondary injectors arent as big as mine i did the staging a bit different. try this, see how it works. play with the values in the fuel map, since there is no midrange compensation in here, or any leaning out in the top end. this needs to be tuned, but its a step in ther ight direction

thanks...will work on this.....wil advise!! help is very much appreciated!!

Hi Guys and Gals,
i wrote a little Visual Basic program to "Recalculate" the pulse
duration if you modify your injector size or staging. You need to have a good map
to start from. So say if you have a dyno tuned engine and you decide put in larger
Injectors you can "Recalculate" the injection pulse width with the new injectors.
This gives a close rough map to start from. You need Visual Basic runtime files to
run it. You should not run this over the MAP more that twice as you could create
errors. It should be noted that you shouldn't really run over 80% duty cycle. In
saying that I have run up to 10ms which seems ok below about 6000rpm. I work
on getting the pulse duration below 6ms but maybe I am fussy!
http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/freqgengui/ is the page with the
link to download the zip file. Just unzip it and if you have VB runtime files it should
run!
If you need the runtime files.
http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/freqgengui/
has them. This is a Home page for another program I wrote but it does have the
required files you will need. It only does one Map point at a time but it is quicker
than guestamation!!! Just type in your present setup and pulse width then the
new setup and press Recalculate and the NEW pulse width will appear at the
bottom. Always round up to keep your motor RICH!!!
Regards
Michael Smith

DOH!!!! angelfire will not direct link GRRRRRR
http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/freqgengui/ Go to this page and it is at the bottom to download.
Sorry for leading you up the garden path!!!!
Michael Smith

Thanks Michael, I will keep you updated! Should get my base map set up pretty soon....we are nit picking it at the moment. I will set up The modified map up soon. Many a thanks go to nyt and evilrotors!!

I found a error in my program and I have updated it. It onlt caused problems if you went from no staging to staging it is very obvious when it does the calculation as it is a very low pulse width. I have fixed it so if you have downloaded it please get the new one as it fixes that problem!
Michael Smith

ps folks...my latest octane quantities for malta:

82 Octane....very Sh**ty fuel i say.....part of my knocking problems.

Is this maybe 82 MON (Motor Octane Number)? I can't believe they have worse gas than 87 PON (Pump Octane Number) anywhere, even Malta.

82 MON would come out to approx 86.5 PON.

I would say take 5 points off all the Ignition load bands, just for safety. That is not great gasoline for a boosted car.

wow i wouldnt even run boost thru that =[

yep folks that's the crude reality!!! I just got the the official figures! I wasnt given any data where its PON or MON, however our LRP (lead replacement petrol) is 82 osctane at the pump with 81.5 on the unleaded!! The T78 conversion is abit far off. I will run max 12 psi with pump gas, with over all trim at 12.6 fuel and - 10 on the overall ignition!!

ps, i was told this is a stock rx7 plugin map....you like. I posted on another thread....but here is;

ps....chris was great in handing me over this map.... (his credit)

I've seen that map. its scary. no midrange compensation over like 8psi or so. ignition map is uhm.... 'unrefined' i dont know who did that map but i wouldnt feel to comfortable giving it out to anyone to run =[

..it actually didnt run.
i guess i gotta start re calibrating my sensors and do it all...bit by bit.
...i really cant get it figured out.

..guess blowing my engine is a nightmare, and keeps scaring me off...

me and my wire in. I must get a start somewhere!!

Too me the Map doesn't look bad. Looks a lot like my V3.1 map. The fueling is set-up with secondary staging even at idle.

So the car would not idle with that map?

Not to further add to the confusion... REALLY not to add to it.. But

Sorry Reading all this from work and not looking at the maps for anything sofar as I dont have the software installed here at work. So if I am off base here forgive me.

NYT has a point he mentioned people may have overlooked. PIG RICH!!! You MUST make it Pig Rich and work it thinner to make it run properly without killing your motor. It should make your eyes bleed with fuel at first. (My eyes are watering thinking of it)

Now for the whole map thing here....

Myself..I have done a healthy couple handfuls of N/A 7s some race cars most street.. with 3.x and 4.x Wolfies.

I get a very VERY conservative ignition map set up for a engine I am not certain of the potential of.

Then I get a FAT fuel curve across the board. At low RPM Fat settings across the RPM range.
Fatter as you go up in load.

Then thin the idle areas out a bit so it will run theoretically.

Then cranking fuel low.. and add fuel till it starts. If it pukes rich after starting.. thin the fuel in the areas it tried to idle till you find a harmony to get it to live a bit.
Then keep thinning things till you have a fairly stable idle.
THEN.. I change the local pulse widths near idle to the same values. (Going up in RPM)
Then keep nursing the engine up in RPM till you have some idea how it will handle the mixture.. thinning and fattening as needed to give you some range in the motor.
Doint this you will get a BASIC idea of your individual fuel requirements no-load as the Revs increase.
Keep moving the engine through the revs gently adjusting as needed.
No Acceleration enrichment while doing this so it doesnt effect the maps adversely.

Get a feel for how your engine needs fuel. You would not believe how different the requirements are for two IDENTICAL motors made with porting that is "the same". Every Engine needs different fuel amounts. It may be close.. but you will need to fine tune it. You dont need a dyno to see what it is doing. Just gently let the revs move up and you will get a feel for how it is responding.

REALLY... if you have a problem getting it fine tuned by ear.. just getting it from barely running Fat to nice.. or from gasping falling out lean to nice.. you may want to enlist a pro to help.
All the maps in the world will not fix it for you by simply plugging them in and crossing your fingers it is right. You need to be able to make effective changes.

(OK going back to work)

actually I was working on the Map by taking her on the road.... but yeh, i 'll take your advice. Re calibrate all my sensors, tps etc, richen it up, and work my way up the rpm curve. Then i can start on the loading.... It's gonna be one hell of a long road!!! Thanks a million.Will post a better map shortly.

GOOOD... That is the next place after getting it running decent in the driveway. :)

YOu are there then.. adjusting in different RPMs and loads as you drive around endlessly.. LOL

Luckily in St. Pete where I live.. (Suburbia from hell) We have a LONG road through a industrial complex that is around 3 miles with NO sidestreets other than a couple industrial businesses... and its 5 lanes wide.. and they are WIDE lanes. So I can make multiple long high load pulls in each pass for finer tuning.
Then re-adjust and do it again. 5th gear.. low RPM pulls are nice.. but can be interesting cause you really build up some speed.

... heh you definately never heard of Malta then!!! well...1st. we got not roads so long (island is 27 miles long and some18 wide) 2nd. the only roads half as long are death traps 3rd. pot holes etc etc are the call of the day!!!
...sometimes i wonder why i bought an RX7!!! hehe a CAT would have been better!! but i wil follow your advice.

ps. if you guys dont hear from me in a while...hehe change my nick to saint infinity!! lol

YIKES!

Sooo you need creative tuning space :)

SOunds like a good reason to have a 488 rear in it.. :) Top end is kinda meaningless there I gather....

Well Good Luck on the short spurts for tuning!! Try to give her a WHOA before you get wet!

yeh...mine is a Jap Import R1 so ratio is not too bad!! ...hehe and it will be one hell of a big WHOA!!...am tryin am tryin!!

This is the new base map.....seems to work a bit...much better then the first!!

If you really have 87 (PON) gas, then I would say take our some more timing on the whole map...to boost with gas that bad, it really needs to be conservative....

okey....will reduce further on the overall trim...

well...here is....stil workin on them but....these are some recent ones:

ps...and the detonation was kindly enlightened by NTY...my premix with lousy fuel we got here was way off!! I was running some 30:1 if not less!!! we'll see how it goes! any of you guy got an FC mechanical OMP to fit into the OMP adapter of the FD? perhaps i could control my oil intake better!!

Sorry, are you saying you where premixing at a ratio of 30:1?!??!! Or am I just reading that wrong?

I have been doing about 120:1 for a long time now. Basically 500mL per tank of gas...