Anyone else having horrible luck with Wolf systems?
 

My friends in St.Louis keep blowing their motors up with Wolf computers. Anyone else having these problems. I'm talking 10+ motors. What's the problem? Lack of experience in the USA?

no problem here, actually quite the opposite

What kind of horsepower are you at? I'm talking on the larger side.

well i've been tuning on a s5 block with light porting to4e turbo, making 330 whp @ 16psi. I found it really easy to setup after a couple phone calls with chris. I'm currently swapping to a 13b re motor, and a gt40 turbo.

I understand that your probably looking for larger numbers than that, but the fundamentals are the same.

a car im tuning now, is showing some symptoms of trigger interference, we're tracing it down now.

you might wanna use the maps i posted as base maps. thats the setup im currently running tuned perfectly at 20+ psi on 93 octane =]

lol, 20 psi is just insane on pump gas!! what is your timing at 20 psi?

Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head. For some reason people don't want to have a professional tune their car, and they think they can do it themselves with a wideband O2 sensor cure-all elixir.

Actual map from somebody who thought he was a tuner just because he owned a shop and had a wideband O2 meter:
http://www.geocities.com/evilaviator/badmap

You live in St.Louis now? The person I'm talking about is Gary Hagner, if you can tune his car then we need to get you two hooked up. I'm tired of rebuilding his motors :)

Yes, I just moved a few weeks ago. However, I am not a tuner.

lol that's funny the "proffesionals" i have run into have either sat and "spun their wheels" while accomplishing nothing, or are completely pompus and starting punching random figures into boxes because it didn't "look right"

I guess we all have our different opinions of "proffesionals" but from my experience is to study study study, do your research and tune it myself. It's worked out great so far with my car, and now on the second car I'm helping tune, i've become so familiar with the system that I can tell when the car has a non-ecu related problem, because the ecu isn't making the changes that it should.

I'm sure the proffesionals you are speaking of are not this incompetant, but just because someone claims to be a pro, isn't always the case.

oh my god.


look at the advance on that ignition map? no compensation in the fuel map for torque peak or anything...

how do you figure its insane?

i have no issues with it. 13 advance @ 20 psi with 10 degree split.

tune your car right, you can run boost =]

My friend is running 15 degrees before torque curve and running lots of timing before 8psi. He did this because he thinks it will increase his torque.

15 degrees at what boost level? i posted my ignition maps and pictures of them plenty of times.. nothing special.. safe maps, work well.

i have my car tuned spot on, your timing curve is much more aggressive at high boost though. I'm only running 2 degrees that high! At my max boost now (15 psi) I'm running about 9 degrees of advance.

jebus! If that is a safe timing map, then i'm probably missing out of 50 hp.!!

Do you know Ryan Scott? I think he was telling me about you, he said that you "WERE" a tuner :)

I talked to Ryan on the phone, but I have never met him. I would like to have attended the BBQ a few weeks ago, but that was the day that my household goods arrived.

Yeah, I can tune an airplane engine from the cockpit (fuel mixture, not timing), and I can show you how to do that on any flight that you take me on. :)

Seriously, I am not a car tuner, and I always have one of the "smarter" guys tune my cars. Sure, I know a lot about tuning, engine performance, theory, etc., but I am nothing compared to the REAL tuners who tune my cars. Unfortunately, I don't know anybody in St. Louis yet, but I am sure there are some aviation mechanics with rotary engine knowledge hiding around here somewhere. Also, my RX-7's are still in Florida because I will not have any place to work on them until I buy a house sometime next year. I'm not sure if I can even bring my 1Gen to St. Louis (as a street car) because there is no way it will pass emissions, and it's not exempt until 2010. :(

I know how to get passed emmisions. Gary was able to get his waived. Simply tell them your running alcohol. He did this and it worked without any questions. The can only test gas. :)

With 94 Octane at 15 psi: I run 17* advance until peak torque, drop it down to 14*, then ramp it back up to 16* until 7500 rpm.

With 91 Octane, it goes 14*-->12*-->14*.

I'd been running this map for about 2 yeras. Steve Kan looked at my IGN map when tuning my car in November and didn't change a thing :)

I am not an expert tuner, if I could get an expert tuner here I would pay to have him set up my car. The tuning I do with my car is very conservative, low boost, and low timing. I run my timing flat across the load bands, 18 degress at 10 psi and 15 degress at 12psi and 15 degress thereafter. The last time it broke my fjo wideband data logged 10.6-10.8 running 12psi. Any help is appreciated but it looks like I'll have to find some tuner to come here. I will not drive my car out of state, for worry that it will brake and I will have to tow it back. I am not looking for sympathy my friend Eric is just trying to help, besides I sure I am not the only one that blows motors. If anybody wants to help I will post my latest map. Thanks

post your maps up I'll gladly take a look. If you were running that rich, the only thing I can think of that would have caused that is either an ignition error, carbon buildup, or plugs that are too hot.

which plugs are you running? how many miles were on the motor? what turbo/intercooler? what are you using for ignition?

I'll try and answer some of the questions. Not sure when he'll get back on. Motor has no more than 100 miles on it. Ignition, 3 msd 6a's, 3 msd coils, and ngk 10 plugs. He has a T04R turbo with the Blitz front mount intercooler.

which MSD coils? I've had horrible luck with them. In fact, I run regular turboII coils in all my cars with great results. I use a 93 igniter with an msd 6a on the leading coil.

I actually had a set of MSD coils in my FD (Bridge port, etc etc) and had to take them out because they didnt provide a hot enough spark to run high boost and actually decayed in a matter of months to the point where you could barely get into boost. I switched them out for tII coils and the car runs strong as hell now.

I'd still like to see his map

Which msd coils? The little red plastic ones :) lol That's all I know :)

id wager thats your problem. get those out of there.

i know a lot of people that had a problem with those, myself included.

these things stink.

http://www.drivewerks.com/catalog/im...MSD-PN8207.jpg

no good on anycar or no good on 7's?

I wouldn't run them period. They say they're meant to be run with MSD 6as. I have msd 6as run to them, and they still suck.. ive seen some people get good results with the hvc coils though.

i dont know why people bother upgrading coils, just use tII coils

I have a msd 6a and blaster II coil for each leading plug, and I run blasters II for each trailing with stock plugs 9s. I did the ignition setup 6 months and it worked great so I dont think thats the problem, and I didnt see any errors . I going to try to get my file on there. Your maps look good, I have a large street port w/ a T04r. How close is your setup, because I might try your map.

Do you have a fuel regulator, is it at a set psi or is it a raising rate? I have talked to a couple of people that said a set psi is better. Whats your option?

I have used msd blaster ss coils without any issues. I have used them on honda's with 600+ hp without issues. I have also seen many 6 and 7 sec cars making over 1200hp with the same coils.
You probably got a bad batch as that's not unusual with msd.

As for the fuel regulater you want one that's one to one not rising rate.

same here, my fc uses the same coils with an ignitor (no msd box) and is making over 400 hp, absolutley no problem.

i know of 3 people in this area that ditched the blaster ss coils. mine were crap

dont use my map, as it wont be nearly as accurate as yours would be for your car. my car is stock ports, stock fpr, and a smaller turbo. If you want to copy my ignition maps, theyre safe maps, you can do that. post your map if you can or email it to nyt@countercultured.net and ill take a look at it

my labtop is having some issues but I 'm tring to fit it. Hopefully by tomorrow I will have my maps up. I saw that you had your staged injection up high. Have you had any lean or rich spots in between your upper load points.

my injection is staged gradually i have no rich/lean spots

heres my map.

nyt can you post your current map, and check mine out.

wow that map is rough.

things i see wrong:
- I'm gonna take a guess here and say your car runs like shit until its warmed up (your engine temp compensation map is virtually useless)
- your throttle pump settings are flat across the board
- your ignition map is a plain old mess. id take the one from my map to use if i was you, same with the trailing split
- nothing below 15 psi (if youre using the standard 23psi load range) has any midrange compensation for your torque peak on your fuel map
- your fuel economy is going to suck since your secondaries are always on (50% up until boost when they come on harder) other than that the staging you have should be pretty smooth



was the fuel map tuned on a dyno?

it looks like it needs a bit of fine tuning. with a large street port and a to4r it looks like there should be more fuel in the midrange. what kind of injectors are you running? what about fuel pump/regulator?

oh my latest map is at http://countercultured.net/pics/cars/88/11-01-04.wmf

My lastest map is very rough because I just rebuild my engine will a larger ports and new injectors. My fuel system is a cosmo pump, standard lines to engine, 550s and 1680s, to a raising rate (one to one ratio) fuel regulator. I was thinking about setting my regulator at a set psi(not have it increase with boost), is that good or bad? My staging was set that way because it took to long to get to 100%. I didn,t want the staging to change while I was in high boost. Your right about the warm up. I have not been able to fine tune the fuel map I start rich and clean it up from there. Unfortunely the motor expired again before I could clean it up. What is the throttle pump.Thanks for your advise

NYT, next time Gary tunes his motor, I'm going to make him give you a call. He's retarded, he can't help it :)

Hey thats not funny

Common now Dr. Hagner. Where's the sence of humor? Homo :)

Yea Eric, licking lead based paint as a kid is NOT funny ...

you want a rising rate at 1:1 to balance out the fuel to the boost thats pushing on it.

if i set my fpr to 30 psi and ran 20 psi of boost, thats only effectively 10 psi of fuel pressure.

throttle pump is for the transient sensor (TPS) to put more fuel in when you step on the gas to compensate for the intake openning fast.

I'll make some changes to your map and post it back tomorrow that should help you with starting and other rough areas. don't expect it to be a cureall itll help a lot though.

How much power are you making or tuned for?

I've been telling Gary NOT to use the rising rate fuel pressure. Why would you want something outside of your ECU compensating for fuel? And the more people I talk to that are making big horsepower, seems nobody uses rising rate with boost.

I've been of the opinion that rising rate fpr's are left over from habits of days gone by, with piggy-back computers that just don't quite get it done. But with something as powerful as a Wolf, wouldn't you want to keep everything external to it at a set baseline, and let the Wolf do all the fueling compensation? Otherwise you just enter one more variable into the equation.

yeah a rising rate is retarded and not nearly as precise a measure as a wolf or other high tech ecu. you want 1:1 to compensate for vacuum and boost so that you have the same pressure difference between the fuel and the intake.

as for how much power im making in reply to the other post, I have no idea. I'm tuned to 23 psi but only run about 20.

I'm switching to a t61 instead of a gt-40 so I'm going to have to add some fuel up top.