Single turbo vs V8 need help
 

Hey guys I'm sure this topic is on here somewhere but I haven't found it. If I can get help an opinions that would be great.
I have a 93 fd rx7 ALL STOCK (except down pipe) and I am not sure if I want to make it into a V8 or go single turbo and port the engine.
I had a 72 nova pushing about 500 horsepower and it was a monster but 6 mpg so I no longer have it. Buuuut I love the rotary how small, balanced, raw it is...can someone shine some light..what do I consider or think of?

Sorry don't mind the part out...did that by accident.

Both have big power potential and will cost about similar. The rotary will always be less forgiving of tuning errors. It really depends on what you like.

Well I'm new to rotarys, but I fell in love with this car. But I miss the rumble and just out right brutal power from the v8. Is the v8 engine much heavier than the rotary? Does it affect it's handling if I wanted to race up a canyon?

Be true to the roots of the car! I am far from a piston hater. Love some mustangs! If you take the time and do it right you will have more to be proud of staying rotary. Only way it would make sense to me going v8 is if you have no knowledge of motors and are strictly just wanting the looks of the fd.

I was always a piston guy growing up with 2 older brothers and my dad having every type of muscle car about ever made. The rotary was different making it more interesting and more of a challenge. No better feeling than running a turbo v8 and handing there ass to them.

Just my 2 cents

Personally, if the rotary is running OK and has good compression, I'd probably just do external mods to it, and all reliability mods of course. I wouldn't rebuild or do a V8 swap until the existing rotary expires.

Like vs. like ( with a/c, p/s, etc.), an LS V8 adds about 100 lb and shifts the weight forward a smidge, 1-2%. Basically goes from being ~48F/52R - 49/51 with full fuel and driver to ~49/51 - 50/50.

Ok cool thanks. Yeah the car is running great right now I was just thinking for the future. Do u know How much it generally cost for a port and engine rebuild on a rotary?

A proper LS swap can actually come out LIGHTER than a rotary. You are loosing a lot of weight ditching turbos, the stock cast iron manifold, intercooler, etc. Handling is also no different. Its all up to you and what you like. As far as cost, it really depends on what is wrong with the motor and what you are looking for. There is a very wide range of quality when it comes to rebuilding these engines. We personally NEVER re-use any seals or gaskets. A good estimate is $3000-5000 for the motor, depending on how extreme you go.

I know there's a bunch of LS engines....I tried to read on all of them and see what's what but I'm not sure how to define each one and what the differences exactly are? Like if I do an LS of course I want low end, it's a v8 but having had a v8 before it had killer low end power but absolutely nothing up top, I want something that is all around from low to top end to keep making the power. I know you can't have it all so if I had to split it up I would say if prefer a tad bit more top end then low. Just because after launching you don't go back to that low end power, you're up in the rpm's so no point of having power down low, you know?

What do you want the car for?

Street
Drag
Road Race
AutoX

If there is nothing wrong with your car, leave it be. Maybe do some of the reliability mods. AST, radiator and such. I did all of the bolt on and single turbo stuff. I said to myself if the motor ever goes I'll do the swap. My MPG more than doubled. Peak HP stayed the same and there was a TON more TQ everywhere. (stock LS1) My RX weighed in at 3030 with full accessories, interior, tons of dynamat and a sub box. Pretty much the heaviest you could possibly make it. Small bias to the rear. Removing the box made it 50/50. The T-56 is about 50lb heavier than the RX trans so it helps a lot with moving the weight back.

The issue is that a quality rotary rebuild is roughly the same price as a used LS1 and T-56 trans. Check out No Rotors and get to reading. There are a ton of options. A rotary car is NOT a civic. You HAVE to be knowledgeable about what you are doing to the car and why you are doing it. It is not a forgiving motor to mistakes. If you love the look and feel of the RX and just want to drive without having to watch your gauges all the time the LS is the way to go hands down.

You cannot really compare an old school V8 to the LS series. Leaps and bounds better. While it is true that the power does not increase like a turbo rotary and may even feel boring(?) the car WILL be faster. (baring crazy modded rotary on meth) I ran a 12.2 with a stock LS1 on 225/50 300 tread ware sumitomos.

Yes, it *can* come out lighter than stock, if you lose some things like A/C and power steering. A similar decontented rotary build with single turbo will come out lighter still.

All things relatively equal, an LS build is going to be 50-100 lb. heavier. There are 2750 lb. V8 swaps, there are also 2650 lb. rotary builds.

My LS2 is very much a street car, and weighs ~2980 lb. with full tank (weighed 2949 with 3/4 tank). That's with some other weight-adders, though: roll bar, rear-mounted accusump installation, bigger wheels/tires/brakes, tons of dynamat, etc. Figure it'd be about 50 lb lighter without all that stuff, or ~2930 lb, with full tank. That's still 50-100 lb heavier than stock.

Same vs. same, the LS swap does add weight even relative to the stock rotary (which has those heavy turbos and manifolds). But it's not a huge amount and doesn't really affect the handling balance of the car.

I want the car mostly for street but still want it be fast on the rare occasion I go to the track. Because at the moment I am thinking of going with 6266 precision turbo, all the supporting mods of course and hopefully getting roughly 450 hp out of it. Numbers aren't too important to me but I want it to be fast and yes I would like to be able to cruise this car everywhere with great mpg and be reliable like a v8 so I'm still in the rough about exactly what I want.

Down low only power - sounds like youve driven alot of trucks and low-po V8 engines. try driving a camaro, gto, corvette, cts-v, etc. LSx engines arent down low power and dead up top. Power pulls all the way to redline. This differs DRAMATICALLY to the first V8 car I ever drove, a mid 90s Tbird where after 3500rpm's it was crap.

I had a 1972 nova with a 406 small block that ran a 10.27 at 142mph. My dad built it for me...I got rid of it because it only got 6 miles to the gallon...I regret getting rid of it every day. But the only thing was it was wicked in a quarter mile, amazing low end and mid range but it red lined at about 6k rpm. So drivability on the freeway was horrible, you couldn't take it up to 100 and keep it there because it just revved too high. That's my impression on the v8.....I don't know too much on the LS engines but it seems like they're pretty awesome from what I'm reading. I'm just not sure what my deciding factor is? I'm trying to get pros and cons on both ends of the rotary and LS.

Here's the dyno for my LS2 w/ L92 heads, LS3 intake, 222/230 .597" cam:
Attachment 650722

A little optimistic! Later run confirmed power at more like 463rwhp. But the curve is worth noting. Stock cylinder heads, mildish cam, and it breathes very well to 7000rpm, peak power at 6400.

It is noticeably soft down low relative to a stock LS2, but really brings it home in the higher revs :)

Nice...looks good. How's it do on mpg? Because I want it to be a street monster but one that I can drive everyday...I know they'll be some sacrifices to get good mpg though.
One thing I notice and motivates me to make this rx7 a street monster is everyday on my way to work and home some corvette, mustang, evo etc is always revving and egging me on and I'd like to show them my car can move....but it's all stock lol 😣

Gets 25 on the highway. On the previous leaner tune, it actually did 29mpg on one tank!
In town, much worse. Like 15.

I think that's really good considering the power and it being a v8. The 15 mpg is pretty low though, you would probably have to baby it a lot to see better numbers. But that's no fun.

MPG and go fast are the complete antithesis of eachother. You get one or the other. Having fun in the car will never net good fuel economy. How the motor/car act when you aren't on it is what really matters. The V8 getting 15 around town is still better than a rotary gets around town. In hawaii with stupid traffic and a 2000ft altitude change to and from work I usually averaged about 21MPG but my heads and cam were far from ideal for power and economy.

On the freeway you'll get ~double the MPG of the rotary. Your V8 build for reasonable power and MPG is all in the details. 0 or - overlap on the cam, small port heads like stock or the AFR's that have great port velocity and rear gears among a few other things. A 4.10 gear is not ideal for a street car. 3.55 is better suited but a diff from another car is required to pull that off.

If you have ANY concerns about MPG and want more than 400whp the rotary simply isn't even an option as it cannot be done currently.

If you took an LS1/6 with 243 heads and a stock cam you'd be at over 400bhp and have a motor that would do 100k miles and not even break a sweat.

Yeah I hear you. What I am thinking is (and I'm not to sure just an idea) is picking a LS engine with some power of course maybe in the 350ish range and turbo it....how do you think that would turn out? Not a huge, just a turbo to push me into the mid 400's. that way mpg is good until I start to boost. Maybe an LS engine tht revs a little higher. What do you think?

It seems like you are going to overcomplicating things. Just do a H/C/I LS1 like everybody says and you will pretty much get exactly what you want.

If the rotary in it now is OK, it is madness to initiate a swap. Mod it, run it, when/if it expires, *then* consider the swap.

That's the thing, is it worth modding then later on replacing to a v8 or is it better just to save money and jump into it now?
What are your experiences with having the rotary and then a v8 was it worth it or how did you go about things?

A friend of mine bought the car with blown engine and did the swap. I bought it from him already swapped.

Personally, if I *had* an FD with a functioning rotary, I would do research on all the reliability/durability mods and also on modding for more power while INcreasing reliability, and enjoy it while it lasted! If the engine blew, I'd go into LS swap mode. It's a risk, but then again it's also risky and expensive to do a V8 swap. Cars have gone down for years and years and YEARS undergoing engine swaps! Enjoy what you have now while it's working, I say!

You know what...you're right. I'm going to focus on the rotary and when she blows I'd see if she's worth it to me to keep her going or swap. Thanks you guys! I wish I was rich so I can get two fd's one rotary and the other ls! Lol

I'll chime in and say I have plans to LSX an Fc. But, I had my FD with rotary and GT35R tuned by Steve Kan and as long as I stay below ~5psi under cruise and light load I easily see ~25mpg highway and ~17mpg city. Last dyno showed roughly 390whp (mustang) @ 15psi. The car is extremely reliable haven't had an issue with it in over two years. With rotaries, it's all in the tune and attention to detail while building it. You CAN have cake and eat it too.

As it seems you already made a choice I'm going to post this for posterity. The long of the short is I have an ls1 sitting in my fc, running, but not quite on the road yet and wish I hadn't done the swap, and this is far from my first swap/large project.



If money is a concern for you I highly suggest doing a detailed cost analysis. To do an engine swap that isn't half-assed and is reliable takes a good deal more time and money than most people realize. Miscellaneous nuts, bolts, consumables, etc. will cost hundreds of dollars by the time you're done. Even buying a kit that will have most of what you need (to put only the engine/trans in) will have unforeseen ancillary costs.

Which LSx motor you chose will greatly affect the end cost and reliability. For instance, ls1's aren't as ubiquitous now and the ones you will find are often the worst examples; make sure you do a compression test before handing over money. Want an ls2? Pay more. Want a truck motor? Pay about the same as an ls1 because you need many parts off an ls1 to get it to fit, all the while tacking on another 100lbs or so on top of what an ls1 weighs. Can you live without power steering or a/c? Adapting those systems will add money and keep the weight up.

Which harness will you use? Going to splice the stock harnesses? Better do a damn good job or you'll have electrical gremlins. If you think you'll do it yourself, are you sure? This is often the biggest stumbling point of any swap. Buying a premade harness? More money and they better be reputable or you'll still be chasing electrical gremlins.

But mostly, is your car in good enough shape, mechanically or electrically to even consider a single turbo or v8?

Fully dressed ls1 weighs ~500 lbs. Fully dressed 13bt ~400lbs. Fully dressed 13b-rew ~420lbs. Stock 5 speed rx7 trans is a good bit lighter than a t56. Stock rear in an rx7 is lighter than an 8.8 IRS. An ls1 WILL place a portion of its engine in front of the front drive line along with all of its accessories. An ls1 is taller and wider and its shape moves its weight higher and then further from the center line. If you don't think this affects performance then put a 50lb battery next to each shock tower and take your car for a spin.

Those fully dressed weights are with the stock cast iron manifolds, arguably one of the worst features of the stock rotary engine due to the thermal properties of iron. Switching to a single turbo setup will not only lighten the car further but also improve its handling and reliability.

Awesome. That's what I was looking for, an answer like that! Thank you! Why fix what's not broken, I think I may just stick to my guns and go single. Maybe one day ill pick up a fd rolling chassis and do a ls swap.

FWIW, my LS1 car gets just about 30 mpg highway, 18 mpg city, and that's on E85 with 750+ RWHP. It's really all about tuning as far as that goes. A big nasty heads/cam car will get worse fuel mileage, but not terrifically so. A 450 RWHP heads/cam car should be able to pull 25+ mpg highway without issue.

As far as what is best, as said, it's really all about preference. I will say if you're aren't ready to do a lot of work, which requires patience, money and skill, leave the rotary in, it's way more fun with a rotary than it is on jack stands.

I'll chime in here with a low mileage chassis...

I had 28k on my FD before I pulled my engine.... and NOT because of necessity.
I simply wanted more power and reliability.

I have all the creature comfort minus cruise control, but neither does an R1 model.
My car is a '95 PEP with A/C that weighed in on a corner balance at 2904 with full spare, tools and a full tank (with 20 miles of highway driving).

People will argue what's heavier and what's lighter but let's be honest, most of us WON'T be able to tell which is heavier by driving the car. Even at a 100lb difference, lighter or heavier, I would go with an LS swap. The main selling point would have to be the aftermarket support. Parts are easy to source and are typically not too expensive. Don't forget, power is pretty easy to make.

I hate to see rotaries ripped out of RX7s, so due to my bias I'd say keep that bay free of pistons. But that's just my opinion. I'm not gonna go so far as to say that V8 swaps are for lazy people, because that's ignorant, but in my opinion if you bought an RX7 in the first place you should respect the beautiful piece of engineering marvel it was built with, and build on that if you want more power.
Just my two cents.

How is that ignorant? Many people who do v8 swaps often quote a desire for more reliability. Rotaries are more unreliable than piston engines when neglected and abused (i.e. they're too lazy to do reliability mods and basic maintenance). And baring examples like digitalsolo who make fairly large amounts of power most who desire the swap will stay within power levels close to those attainable by a dual-rotor. This isn't to say there aren't many reasons a person might do such a swap, but they are typically personal, and power/reliability are used to make the list longer and sound better.

Speak for yourself. I can easily tell the difference in power/handling with a full tank vs half tank vs empty tank. And there is no argument about which is lighter/heavier. All other things being equal, a rotary is lighter. End of discussion.

THREAD OVER!!! :lol::lol::lol:

Hope u went v8

There are valid arguments to doing both. It all boils down to what puts a smile on your face, how deep your wallet is, how much spare time you have and what resources you have around you to utilize. If you're on the original engine with original seals, they're old and tired, so don't expect to last forever if you push the car hard. But there are many apex seals today that can put up with a LOT of abuse even if the tune is half a**ed. All else being equal a properly built rotary will probably never last as long as a built LSX since it is working 30% harder to make the same power but if it lasts you 5+ years of excitement, rebuilding them is quite simple and can be very cheap as long as there's no catastrophic damage. I'm slightly biased to a rotary in an Rotary Xperiment car but I've been in both and can say that if I closed my eyes in the LS FD I was in, I would have thought I was in a corvette. Great torque, and power, but the balance of the car was off in comparison to the smooth power delievery of a rotary. Either way, you have a great chassis that will perform great with practically any powertrain.

EDIT:

Turbo rotaries in comparison to LS motors don't last a long time, they really don't. If you get 120k miles out of an engine that's modified you're doing great, but this is something a rotary owner has to accept...it is a VERY small, compact engine that is forced to make power with engines several times its size. You have to be a little forgiving when you think about how much you ask a 13B to do. It has taken me 6 years to drive 100k miles on my DD (Saturn) and I drive out of state almost every weekend and travel for work. My FC has gone 30k miles since 2006 and I have beat that car very hard and it never gives up, so if you put that into perspective rotaries do have a long lifetime IF it's not your DD...which I highly would not recommend. But for a car that you crank up on a nice day and enjoy the smooth power delivery of the engine and whistle of the turbos, I've never experienced a better car.

If you are even considering an LS swap, then I would do it now. Here is why,... the swap really isn't cheap but rotary power isn't either. When I first went single turbo, I looked at a LS swap in comparison. I considered doing it then, but I really talked myself out of it because I never had a high HP rotary and I told myself that I had to at least try it. Being a rotary owner for over 15 years, it made sense. I spent $9k going single turbo. I did it the right way and bought new quality parts. I could have done it for a little less, but it was a nice GT35R with Vmount, fuel, and all the goodies. I hypothetically added up a LS1 swap and it had me sitting at around $11k. Again, all quality parts. My 35R setup yielded 386whp, and the LS1 with the considered mods would have done the same. I upgraded my setup a few times after that, but always spending more money to make more power. Each time I considered the swap, I thought it was silly since I already had gone that direction. When I finally decided to do a LS, I had a blown engine and pile of parts. Oh the money I would have saved....

You now have a good engine and drivetrain that is worth good money. In completely stock form with low mileage, you have a leg up for a few reasons. You haven't done a bunch of work to the car, and you have a nice pot of cash sitting in your bay to start funding the swap.

As others have said, it really is personal preference. I prefer a turbo rotary, but we all know it costs more to squeeze big power from a small engine. It's simple physics and there is no denying it. If you think you will start going down that rabbit hole, I would consider the swap now. Put a nice LS3 or stroker motor in there and enjoy.

For me, it came down to power and cost. I love the rotary, and always will. But no matter how much voodoo you pump into it, it is still a 1.3 liter. Mid 300's with E85/AI and the rotary will do very well. But the point came that I had mid 400's and still wanted more....

My power addiction surpassed my rotary addiction. Life happened and I just got tired of working on the car. I looked at my future and saw a fresh engine every few years, and that was if nothing else inadvertently failed to cause engine failure. Unfortunately, that is another downfall to the little Doritto. It seams that everything causes catastrophic failure, and it spits seals at your nice expensive turbo on the way. In the mid 500whp power range, things of reliability go out the window with the rotary and it's factory drivetrain. Of course, NOTHING against the engine or the design of the drivetrain, it just wasn't built to handle that kind of power. I can build a forged LS engine, make 600hp in NA form, 100k reliable miles, 25mpg, and keep smiling. Use a Tremec T56 Magnum rated for 700ftlbs, and a Cobra IRS 8.8 rear. A bulletproof drivetrain built to handle whatever I could throw at it. And that is what I planned to do....

Ultimately, I probably should have bought a Vette. But after all the blood and sweat I put into my car I couldn't let it go. I just had it painted, and FINALLY the exterior was exactly the way I wanted it. Thus, my reason to swap a LS7.

And of course, there lies another option; to pass on your car to an enthusiast, and purchase a good example of an already swapped car.

Well said :icon_tup:

If you want big power and you just like the look and handling of the FD go V8

If you just want big economical power go VETTE and you'll have a much better performing car to boot.

If you really want to have fun and fall in love with the greatest sports car ever built get to know the lady just as she is which will be well worth your time and will also provide endless smiles for many many miles :)

add a catback (notice about 10 more HP and love the new sound of back fires etc..)
add a nice intake (notice another 10 HP) and listen to those magical twins
add some cool coilovers and learn how controllable the car is as you slide it around
add some sways and have even more fun
add a PFC smic bigger inj etc... and get another 50 HP
blah blah

The engine and the way it loves to be modded and tinkered with is a BIG part of this car and the relationship you and it will have together. If you pass that up you are missing one of this cars greatest gifts.

Having owned both and in many various:

Bolt-ons(cai, cat delete, PFC) @13psi so around 340hp, I got 16 at best highway average cruising speed 80-90.

LS3 + ported heads and a turbo cam but n/a (450whp) I got 22 mpg at 95mph(stock rear t56).

Both full interior cars.

Yep I think most LS cars get 25 plus mpg which will really pay off if you drive a lot :icon_tup:

I won't be at all surprised if I'm driving an LSX FD at some point because it just makes soooo much damn sense which only goes to show how much love I have for the rotary LOL.

Really? I haven't calculated my FD but my FC that I tuned myself would get well over 20+ mpg on the highway. Tune the AFR's to be in the 16's while cruising and worked like a charm. Also had a friend of ours driving to the dragon that had a similar tune in his FD. He drove from Charlotte to the Dragon, drove around for the weekend and didn't fill up until we left on Sunday, I on the other hand filled up 2 times and we cruised together everywhere we went, so it's really all in the tune :icon_tup:.

Bottom line is this. If you have the BIG cheap power bug, can't beat an LS. But I'd recommend keeping your rotary in and just buying a piston car that's already know to make good power. I just sold an e46 m3, but there are kits out there now that are making 660+ rwhp at just 11 psi and over 1000+ rwhp at 25 psi, a 2 rotor will NEVER do that reliably, so you better believe when I get that bug for more power I'm not going to drop an s54 engine in my FD, I'm going to buy a beat up e46 m3 chassis and turbo that beast.

I can agree with this, I have a buddy that lives in charleston with an FD and with his tune he gets about 28 mpg on the highway, it's really all in how you tune it when you're cruising.

I never drive my fast cars slow. The rotary dealing with constant decel/recel got terrible mileage but the same chassis with a ls going an average higher speed got better mileage. I know people getting over 26 on e85 on ls turbo car cruising, but thats cruising at the speed limit there is always a story of someone getting XYZ. I can tell you what I got from running the same path, same chassis, same weight, same driver, removes a lot of variables. I have no problem in making a rotary go fast, just the consumables at the power levels we are going to be competing at soon we would have to be running a 20b and a turbo ls is a fraction of that price.

To the OP Maybe this can sway your decision to go to the dark side lol:

https://www.rx7club.com/non-rotary-a...s-etc-1062257/

Where was this deal when I was building mine :scratch: ?

In my garage staring at my E38 saying: "you know you want me inside you" LOL.

This is straight truth right here. :icon_tup:

For me, a FD with a V8 really resets the president of the most iconic sports car of all time; the AC Cobra. A big engine in a small car is one hell of a package, and it's hard to beat for a reason.

A strung out rotary comes with a great many failure critical systems despite having few moving parts. Any problems with cooling (water pump, radiator, hoses etc), fuel (pump, filter, injectors, even just a bad tank of gas), air management (blowoff/wastegate, vacuum leaks), and the engine might be done. Rotaries can be awesome, but damn they are unforgiving. I personally found the rotary less fun to drive since I found never trusted it. We all understand that detonation will spit out apex seals, but I've never seen a good explanation for why coolant seals let go.

Then there's what you can "upgrade" to. IMHO, a single turbo rotary making good power (lets say 450+ rwhp) typically has a terrible torque curve which is pretty non-existent below 3500 rpm. The big single often leaves you driving on e85 or race fuel which is a PITA for many reasons. There's little to no margin in the tune if you want to make power, certainly no enough to tolerance any given component issues as mentioned above. Then, when the power comes in, it hits hard in a big rush, so feathering throttle is challenging. They're simply harder to drive fast. Can you? Absolutely yes. Is it easy? No.

A v8 on the other hand is all about instant gratification. The power is always there. It'll make more torque by 2500 rpm than most rotaries do at redline. Any heads cam setup winds out nicely. Literally my favorite comment from a rotary buddy after I took him for a ride was simply "you've ruined me". All the preconceived notions just fall away after you get a ride in one. It doesn't happen for everyone, some folks just like what they like, but if you're looking to make an objective evaluation of things you should find someone local and get a ride.

The simple fact is that when I did the swap, I quadrupled the displacement, I tripled my horsepower, and my gas mileage went up. I don't know how that doesn't defy physics but there it is.

My advice is that if you have a good running car, NOW is the best time to swap it, when all the goods you're about to take out are still worth top dollar to the purist who just blew up his stuff. Financially speaking and in terms of time committed to the build, the worst scenario you can have happen is that you do go single, then you blow it up, then sell your setup for pennies, and you THEN finally swap it.

If they made a corvette in 9/10ths scale I might be driving one. Until that happens a v8 rx7 is the next best thing.

Good luck!

^^^Truth

To be honest. I'd love to own both. I'd DD the v8 FD and take out the massive single turbo open wastegate 500 rwhp FD on the weekends. Life would be great.

I think modern day turbo's are pretty good. The EFR series turbo's are great turbo's and can make good power at low boost.

I would run the rotary as it comes with the car and everything is designed for it. It's true that maintenance and upkeep are a huge deal with the rotary, running 2 cycle oil, dual oil coolers, upgraded water pump, radiator, etc. etc. Stay on top of the maintenance, run the car at 350WHP on lower boost set up inside the turbo's efficiency range, duct everything up and watch those air temps and water temps.

I love the rotary, I think the most likely cause of all these engine failures are people going over the limit of the engine or the drivetrain, the expectations are too high for the design. They sucked out all the margin of safety the engine had.....which leads to a very unforgiving engine. You can run a pretty nice single turbo set up for a pretty good price if you can find someone to help you select parts for the car. I am helping someone right now piece one together. He is almost done. We built the fuel lines ourselves, run EV14 injectors, bought an ebay intercooler for V-mount, modified a radiator already had, and I am tuning the car. We will be ducting it with .032" 6061 T6 AL. We also made the brackets for everything ourselves, pretty easy. I bet he only has 3-4K into this build. the car came with an upgraded radiator already, powerFC, better clutch, etc. We also dropped in a supra pump and rewired it, pieced the kit together ourselves.