Ford / Lincoln 4.6 DOHC
 

My redneck friends where I work will have nothing of me putting a chevy engine in my FC, they want me to get a DOHC ford 4.6 instead of the LS1. And I honestly don't care either way because it's still aluminum block and nearly 300 hp stock, and they are cheaper / easier to find than the LS1 because they came in a bunch of Ford cars.

So..... how does the wider DOHC engine fit in an FC? One member in here has a Northstar swap in progress which is about the same size.

First, the DOHC isn't in a bunch of different Fords. The 2 valve modular 4.6 is the common engine.

Second, you might want to recheck those demensions, as the 2 valve 4.6 and especially the DOHC 4.6 are absolutely enormous engines from a width standpoint, and while they are aluminum, they aren't a light as you may think.

Third, if it'll fit, that'd be the coolest looking car in the universe when you raised the hood. People would FREAK at the sight of something that massive in a little RX-7.

Good luck and I hope you can make it work! You'll definately be the first I've heard of to try it.

Ummm...Yeah. :rolleyes:

Kick your redneck friends in the balls and tell them that's a dumb idea. The modular engines are huge. For the record, the footprint on a 302 is almost the same as the LS1.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlab/pi...comparison.jpg

Check out how freakin huge that 4.6 is!

Well that sucks, maybe a 302 would be better. Anyone know where to find specs on 302's like weight, etc? Actually the rednecks I know have a lot of experience building 302s so they could set me up with a mean little motor.

Pretty much stick with a pushrod engine. The modular Fords are great for making big power, but they're gargantuan. The 302 is actually a really tiny motor, and it fits well in an RX7's engine bay.

http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/2...dunderhood.jpg

302s are decent motors with cheap parts and a huge aftermarket, but a poorly matched transmission is what ruins that idea for me. The T-5 has bad gear ratios for a 4.11 rear end, and also has a maximum torque capacity of 300 ft-lbs.

I would just go LS1 when talking about the DOHC why go something with less power, less displacement, much larger, and more weight with a similar cost and go into unknown territory in putting it in just because your friends don't like chevy or you want to be different? Also why put in a 302 when you can put in an LS1 for a little more money that once against has more displacement, similar weight and size, better transmission, and so many options to tune the ECU easily? There is a reason why the majority of the people are going with the LS1. It isn't hard to build a high power LS1 so why are you going to go 302 just because your friends can build it when you can most likely make more power for less with the LS1.

Lincoln 285hp 4.6s are cheap as dirt compared to the LS1, so is the mustang 5 speed tranny compared to the T56. I'm a poor engineering student who can fab up some freaky shit if needed, but I'd get the LS1/T56 for sure if I had $4k laying around.

I looked up some engine weights and it appears as if the iron block 302s are actually slightly lighter than the dohc 4.6 aluminum engines.... both weighing roughly 450lbs.

But check out how tiny the 302 is in the engine bay of that FC! Makes me think I actually could squeeze a 4.6 dohc in there, and I'm crazy enough to try.

Link? I find it hard to believe that 4.6 is only 450#. I'd heard much more than that.


You might be able to fit the block in there, but what about exhaust manifolds? Don't forget about those.

If you're hung up on running a Ford motor, why not go with a 351W? They fit in an FB (with a hood scoop), and the power potential is definitely there. Stretch's car runs low 9s, or did before he put it into a wall.

I thought of that same exact pic when I read the first post. I'm interested in putting a mod motor in my ranger, and every time I look into it that pic comes up.

I found my LS1T56 for $2500.. motor, accessories, computer, harness, etc.! just have some money ready to pounce on a good deal when you find it.

plus the T5 tranny BLOWS.. its WEEEAAAAAAAAAK!

......T56 for evArrrrrrrr...... :)

Maybe in a month or two when I'm out of school and working again I'll find a combo like that. I'd put it on the visa and pay it off in two months. :D



Regarding the infamous thought of putting a 4.6 northstar or lincoln / cobra 4.6 dohc V8 in my FC.......................

Well I went to a local wrecker this weekend and found said monster motors and took measurements.

Width is not a problem, both fit with about an inch or two to spare between strut towers.

Length is not a problem as the FC engine bay is very long.

Height unfortunately was a big problem. Though both behomoth 4.6s would clear my hood in back, neither would clear it (2-3" too high) in front without fuc#ing with my steering rack and sway bar.


Sooooooooooo............... I've come to the conclusion that it is possible to use a 4.6 dohc, either by cadillac or ford, if you're willing to cut up your hood. But I'm not going to do that.

Just start collecting pieces for an LS1 setup, or buy a crashed car and part it out.

I'll have about 1500 in my LS1/4L60e with 51K miles when all is said and done.

You'll spend more money for less performance with the 302, though on the same note, you can get plenty of performance to make that FC a blast to drive. :bigthumb:

Just start squirreling away a little money at a time Jeff, eventually you'll get there.

If you have the space, the advice from digitalsolo is good and time tested. Buy a whole car wreck and start stripping absolutely everything out of it that you can salvage. You'd be surprised what people need/are searching for over at LS1tech. :)

there was a FC with a sohc 4.6 on ebay not long ago. . did ahve a big cut up hood on it though. The seller said that he thinks he could get a dohc one in there

i dont know what yall are smoking but i own a lincoln towncar (car with the DOHC 4.6L V8) and it only put 210 to the wells, i know this is with no modifications what so ever, but 385 compared to 210 is a huge difference.........btw the lincoln is for sale, has body damage in the back but the engine is still in perfectly good working order, need to get rid of it ASAP, its parked in my tahoe and rx7's spots

i just realized this thread was 3 months old

Right here buddy, :wave: right now the Norhtstar swaps only problem is its width. its just big enough to where its going to interfere with the Brake booster and porportioning valve. so right now im trying to get away with mounting the porp. vavle unter the booster to save a little space. and if at all possible im gonna see if i can cut a notch outta the booster to make a nice tight fit. and the northstar ready to run is about 413 lbs, bare about 400lbs. so weight no is no problem. and the motor is JUST BIG. its 28 inches wide 31 inches long and 26 inches high which is much bigger then an LS1. but with all that aside its gonna be a nice powerplant with smooth delivery and 32 valves of fun!!

Stock... you are mostly correct. The T5 is realativly weak. Though not as weak as many would have you believe.

Not much spoken of is the g-Force T5. It's good for about 600 hp and an eqaul amount of torque in a 3200 lb car. Only down side is the $1600 price tag.

And while the T56 is an outstading trannsmission, they are not finacially viable for the Ford Windsor family of engines at this time. Buy in is at least $2000 to $2500 for a Windsor spec T56.

4.6 is heavy! Like 650 lbs with aluminum heads (big block 460 weighs about the same). 302 is about 450 lbs though.

your motor isnt much bigger than mine, and i have a carb on top, and i can STILL close my hood, my motor is a little wider, and almost as long.

pics to prove it can fit.

Attachment 718858

Attachment 718859

if i can get that to fit, im sure you can get yours to fit. btw a friend of mine that works with motors says that photo of the 302 and the 4.6 dohc is very misleading and they arent as different in size as the photo makes them out to be.

I gotta call BS... no offence to you or your friend. Go look under the hood of any 94-95 Mustang GT and take note of the engine width and the outer edges of the valve covers. Then go find any Mustang Cobra '96-'04 and take note of the engine width at teh outer edge of the valve covers (cam covers?). HUGE difference in width. Those cars have the exact same engine bay dimensions.

The 4.6 DOHC engine is 30" wide, the 302/5.0 is 18" wide. 12" is alot of width.


BTW... what engine is that in your pics? Mopar?

just going by what he said.

and dodge 383, big block.

Ahh bullshit, my 4.6 fully dressed weighs in just shy of a fully dressed LS1 and thats 460lbs

and i think you have it mixed up an iron block big block engine weighs about 650 lbs


Bullshit once again

My 4.6 is 28 inches wide, and WTF 18 inches? thats barely the width of some 4 cylinders

what are the dimensions on that engine? because my Northstar is 28 inches wide, but it may be about the same width its just where that heigth comes in. because the heads on my DOHC exted about 3-4 inches above the block.

this picture sorta explains the deal here, the block may be about the same size its just the heads stick out much farther then an OHV head. thanks to V8mr2.com for the great reference shots


http://www.v8mr2.com/images/day91/images/PC190382.jpg

Call bullshit all you want. I based my response on numbers from Ford...the manufacturere of the engines. I think they know what thier stuff weighs and how wide it is.

There were/are many versions of the 4.6 DOHC and as such several different weight engines. The Mach 1 engine intake to oil pan is listed on the Ford Racing Parts website at 614 lbs. Look at this website and gleen what you want from it. A fully dressed Ford 4.6 DOHC weighs at least 575-600 lbs.

http://home.att.net/~marksmoore/Weights.htm

We'll I got my engine width numbers from Ford Racing Parts so you can call them up and tell them they're full of shit. www.fordracingparts.com open the current 2005 catalog and go to page 155.

i said MY 4.6 i was refering to the Northstar engine which as listed wieghs 464lbs

and you said 650lbs in your original post and the engine is 576, i think 74lbs is more then just an oversight. and in that list is a DOHC motor that is 464 lbs also. but out of curiosity i want to know whats making that extra 100 pounds in the last motor?

Ford 4.6 DOHC 464 (72) 9 pounds lighter than SOHC
Ford 4.6 DOHC 437 (77) w/o accessories
Ford 4.6 DOHC 521 (94) aluminum block and heads
Ford 4.6 DOHC 576 (168) Mustang

and i guess i am mistaken on the width of a 302

Well I don't know shite about the Northstar engines other than they are a pretty sweet engine with a ton of potential. But the DOHC Mach 1 engine is 614 lbs per Ford. Granted it's a iron block engine. The aluminum version is lighter. But that's pretty friggin' close to 650lbs. I said "like 650 lbs" speaking from memory which is never perfect. The 460 is actually closer to 720 lbs.

As for 464 lbs...I bet dollars to donuts that's without accesories or a flywheel/flexplate or exhaust.

well as per that site a northstar is 404 bare, 464 dressed

What kind of performance parts are out for the Northstar? Carb intake? Ignition? Blowers?

I remember seeing dress up items in Hot Rod once. and something about a transmission adapetor.

That's a pretty light weight engine. :bigthumb:

the posibilities are endless.... www.chrfab.com that one site is where i am getting ALL of my stuff to build up my northstar, and no where else

That's teh place fromthe Hot Rod artice I remember the funky address now that I see it again.

Cool stuff.

here are some engine dimensions, they seem pretty accurate mopar wise anyway.

Bwahahahahaha, man this is great, I'm coming out of the closet guys! Picked up an 89 5.0 from a crown vic the other day, tore it down and man it looks good. Time to go shopping for aluminum heads, new pistons, etcc.... What a tiny engine, it almost looks like a rotary. :D The rotary is officially out of my life. Anyone want a large street ported 6 port in good running condition?

What transmission are you running behind the Northstar, I like that idea, I'm starting to think of a Northstar FB......

You can mount a T-56 to a 302 with the right bellhousing.

Not sure about input shafts, but thats fixable too. Shit, Ive seen T-56s mounted up to 2.3Ts with a v8 bellhousing. :bigthumb:

Regardless, the T-5 isnt THAT weak - just get a good shifter so you dont bend a rod in the transmission and just dont beat on it, it will last. And Uh... v8s have pretty big powerbands, the gearing isnt really that bad.

But yeah, 302s are not bad motors! If I wasnt going with the 2.3T Id be going with one unless I could get my haggling skills up to snuff and go snag one of those supercheap LS1s... you bastards.

Im going to be using a version of the T-5, IIRC its a tremec 3556 or something like that it can handle 500ft/lbs and is a very nice 5spd to mate with the Northstar's powerband. The tranny comes off of the Cobra R models, and is labeled "HD". so for $1600 this better be a damn good tranny.


https://static.summitracing.com/glob...003-r58w_w.jpg

^^^ I can come get that rotary engine for ya. give me a pm.

Why in the world wouldn't you use a 6 speed for that amount of money? Just curious what your thought process is on that.

Someone needs to build a V8 RX-7 with a flappy paddle gearbox :)

THAT would be the day... lmao

I don't know what you've been smoking to not realize that your lincoln has a SOHC not DOHC 4.6, only lincoln to get the DOHC 4.6 was the Mark VIII(of which i am a previous owner of). check it out, that extra cam in the heads makes a big difference...

wait... v8??? what happened to the whipple blower project????

Yep.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...d=147895&stc=1

you do realize they made the DOHC 4.6L with iron and aluminum blocks. iron blocks are up around 576 yes. but the teksid block(93-98 DOHC 4.6L's) was most definately not that heavy, shit the block weighs in around 70 lbs. the iron 4.6 block is over 160 iirc

Are the older BBFs weighed with iron intake manifolds and heads? Jeeze, thats some heft.

Too bad you'd need a cobra crade, tall tires, revs or going into overdive to actually be able to accelerate through the traps with a healthy one in a rx-7 :/

Sadly, it is for sale.

I got it running, absolutely loved the response and power, but a little voice in my head reminded me that it's never going to pass smog in a big city, which is where I might have to live after I get my degree. It sux.

i have been advised by the master of the northstar (alan Jackson, owner of CHRFAB) that because of the northstars' power curve it does very poorly with most six speed trannies. It cant pull a low numerical gear (like a .5X which is in most T56 trannies and 6 spds) so he told me that he gets best results with gears like .6X and .7X final gears, such that found in most 5 spds.

and that particular tranny that i have selected comes with a .68 fifth gear, which makes it just right for my applications.

Bad news guys! The ford 5.0 doesn't fit the FC so hotly after all. The oil pump is in the WORST possible location, right over the steering rack! Maybe I'll be saving up for the LS1 after all.

talk to them long and hard b4 you get that tranny...my friend blow up 4 of them with his mustang.....but sayin they dont make a good tranny they make a real good trany you just need to get the right 1 caz they dont replace them if they blow up

You're tlaking about putting it in a significantly lighter car that is probably running a much smaller tire. It will hold up a lot better under those conditions.

Granny's kit mounts the engine really high in the chassis. It'll fit under inder a stock hood carbed with a weiand xcellerator typew intake. If oyu go fuel injected, just use half inch spacers to drop the subframe and it will fit under a stock hood. The distributor is a really tight fit too.