On the fence, LS1 conversion
 

My car runs good and all, but I have been thinking about the LS1 conversion alot lately.

I run high boost and I am sure my days are numbered.

All I read is how happy people are with the conversion, never a bad thing about it, and about how it is the best thing that they did to their FD.

I would like some more feedback from those that have done it.

I know all about the small weight difference, etc.

I do not read much about how the 6-speed tranny works out. The most common topic is the added torque.

I've done tons of research about it. I met Brian Hinson and his mechanic Lane at the Deal's Gap meet 3 weeks ago. They seem like great guys. My concern as of late is the prospective cost. I don't know if you are planning on doing it yourself or having someone else do the work. I do not have the tools, the space, the time, or the skills to do the swap. It seems like if you want Hinson to do the swap it will cost around $12k including the motor and trans to have an FD making around 320 hp with matching torque. Of course, you can sell all of the rotary-specific stuff and get some (alot?) money back. If I did something so radical to my car, I would want it to be especially fast. Then you have to decide on how fast you want to go. An FD with only a mild heads/cam package went 10.9 @ 124 a few weeks ago. That car probably only has a bit over 400 rwhp.

I'll try not to ramble, but as of right now, I think I'm leaning towards staying with my rotary because of the prospective cost. If you want to do more serious reading, you should go over to torquecentral.com and join up. They have a dedicated section to V8 Rx7s where you can find a lot of info.

Feel free to IM me (ThePianoProdigy) and we can talk further if you want. I haven't decided either way yet, so maybe you can help me make a decision as well. :bigthumb:

Thanks for the repsponse. I have the tools and the ability to do the swap myself. I even have a bid on Ebay for a trans/motor setup.

My fuel system is also ready to go as I have an external pump, regulator and all new lines.

The conversion pieces will come from Brian at Hinson. I am real close to pulling the trigger BTW.

I do have an awesome setup now and it runs great as I have explained earlier.

I would cam it up and upgrade the springs before putting the engine in the car.
You are correct about selling pieces/parts to make up the difference.

I have tons of stuff to unload, including my engine which has great compression.

I would put the air conditioning back on, hook up power steering and make the car as streetable as possible.

If I were in your position (tools and know-how), it would likely be a no-brainer for me. My motor unfortunately does not have great compression, so I'm trying to stomach the thought of paying for a rebuild after only 2 years and 15k miles. I think the worst part about it is worrying about it. It may last another year, it may blow up tomorrow. Unfortunately, getting a rebuild probably won't take away that feeling. :(

How much power is your car making? I imagine with 22 psi on that turbo you'd be close to 500 rwhp. While the driveability will be much better with an LS1, you'd need a pretty aggressive setup to get that kinda pull. Just a cam isn't going to do it. I was leaning towards having a motor forged and doing a Procharger. It will still provide great top-end without so much power that you're blowing the tires off everytime you hit the gas.

You're correct about the cam. I know it will not make up for the top-end pull of my car with 22PSI. A good tune, cam, larger throttle body, Hinson intake and headers will put that car in the 385 range from what I hear. Add heads and that will put you a little over the 400RWHP range. Again, this is information that I gathered from reading the last few days. i even thought about running a small supercharger.

22PSI is on the hairy edge, regardless. I think I'd miss the BOV and the jet-sounding spool of the turbo. :D

I hear that. I just finished reading your post about your dyno numbers. It is certainly making big power. My car only made 425 whp @ 20 psi on a T66 with 100 octane. It also made 380 whp @ 14 psi. It's not picking up much hp/psi (10ish). The turbo is puking some oil and has a bent fin on the compressor. I've had thoughts of upgrading the turbo, but I would hate to sink money into it only to have the motor let go (Mid 6s on a 3mm seal motor). Anyways, I don't know why I'm telling you all of this. I've thought of getting that GroundZero LIM, but I don't know if it would fit with my setup. If you decide to part out your car, let me know. I might pick up that LIM from you.

I''ll let you know on the LIM. I am at least going to try and enjoy the car a little this weekend before she would go under the knife. I am getting alot of opposition from many and support from others.

If the engine was nuked right now, it would be an absolute no-brainer.

I debated about doing the swap forever after I blew my 3rd motor and ended up just building another rotary. I have a heavy foot and when I want to get on it, I will. I hated not being "able" to go WOT cause the intake or water temp was a little too high. Anyways the forth motor only lasted 6 months so that defiantly made me do the swap.

Now I wish I had done the swap sooner, I love it.

Expect the swap to end up costing $9-10k and use Hinson for the parts you need or don't want to make yourself.

It will be worth the effort. Expect some great low end torque with a good top end pull still. Maybe not as insane as a turbo top end pulll.... but it is a much wider powerband. Also 28mpg+ on the highway (with T56), factory stock bottom ends that are pretty stout (9's/10's on nitrous won't be tough), and ease to work on are some more +'s. The swap allows you to beat on it without constantly monitoring oil/water temps and worrying about a bad batch of gas blowing your motor. Have your cake and eat it too.

Get a ride in one... and you'll be convinced. With the proper upgraded suspension the incredible handling will still be retained.

An abundance of LS1 engine builders and tuners at your disposal vs. a handful in the country that can build/tune a serious performance rotary and then still have the possibility it will let go.

I say sell your rotary parts now and pay for probably 1/2 the conversion. There is essentially no fabrication. The electrical part is the worst (IMO), everything else is a logical bolt in affair.

Need more power.... Stock ls1 block/crank with upgraded rods/pistons have made 1000rwhp+ already without failure in custom turbo setups. There are quite a few making ridiculous numbers like this.... Or a 402 LS2 setup n/a making 525rwhp+ on pump gas.

I'm shooting for 450rwhp with AFR heads, healthy cam, long tube headers, stock LS1 shortblock and a few other minor bolt ons (underdrive pulley, cold air K&N,etc).

Do the research, make a list of costs involved, and then decide if this is for you. I think after you add up all the rotary parts you can sell.... it won't be that expensive.

-Mark

I have a ton of stuff to sell. I figured that I will be able to get at the minumum of 9 grand for everything that I have.

I would do a supercharger if anything. There is a nice setup they make that would work with minimal fittment issues.

zkeller... I also had a single turbo kit on my fd before doing the conversion. At one time I was making 420 rwhp on pump gas, And I am much happier with the car now than I was then. Especially after one trip to the road course with not a single problem. And the driveability on the track was awsome. I sold all my single turbo and rotary driveline and did the work myself and it didnt cost me a penny out of pocket for the swap.

Jonathan

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I'm curious. What supercharger are you looking at? I'm wondering if I've missed one.

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Sorry for having to edit your posts guys. That troll slipped one in.

If anyone posts anything like what was posted, feel free to let me know (if I don't catch it first) and I'll take care of it.

Sorry, the supercharger I came across is for an LT1.

The GTO kit has fit in a FC and just might fit in a FD.

I sat with Brian Hinson at dinner at Deals Gap and talked for an hour or so about the swaps. I think the biggest advantage is the durability and MPG. I did the math and if I made mine a daily driver (which is possible with the LS1 conversion) I could save $1,200 per year in gas! I am seriously considering it!

I really can't think of any major downsides to this swap. If you have the cash to build/maintain/tune a 400+ rwhp rotary, you should have no problem affording the ls1 conversion.

I should be in real good shape now I hope. I just picked up an 02 Z28 with 45k miles on it for 5,900 bucks. It's wrecked in the front, not too bad. Should be able to pull the motor/trans and sell the rest of the car for at least 2 grand since it has t-tops, leather and the chrome wheels.

I have a descided to run my Autronic ECU for my swap for full tuning capabilities.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Another plus is that NGK plugs for the LS1 are $12 for a set of 8 and you can get them at O'Reileys!!

Congrats on picking up the car.

Good luck on your conversion. I look forward to your progress with it and I hope it goes smoothly for you. Our shop is repairing an LS1 [LS6 specs] engine for a forum customer right now. We've all been impressed by the quality of the Hinson conversion parts. It has created a buzz and there will be an audience to see this thing run when the job is completed.

Rx-Ben was going to use his Autronic ECU for his LS1FC but the LS1 stock PCM (ecu) is fully programmable and all you need is good programming software... which is readily available: HpTuners and Ls1edit. I think the other pieces needed to run the Autronic made it more complex than it needed to be plus added more cost to the setup for no great advantage.

just a heads up...

and congratas on the good deal on that donor car!

Thanks for the information.

One of the attractive advantages to using the Autronic ECU in my opinion is the fact that you will not need the Mass Air Flow sensor. I can just strap a silicone coupler on the throttle body and run it down to the air cleaner.

You will only need the TPS, coolant temp, air temp, crank angle, and cam sensor to run the car. No EGR sensors, no O2 sensor.

Also when I add a little positive intake manifold pressure this winter, the ECU will come into play further.:p:

You must use a converter from FAST and a reluctor adapter for the CAS signal.

Do you know if the stock GM coils have built in ignitors or are they just standard coils? That in itself would be a desiding factor because I cannot use coils with ignitors.

You won't regret it, ls1 conversions are a blast!

What did you do tp get 430RWHP?

Stock LS coils have built in ignitors.

You can get rid of the MAF with HP Tuners as well as EFILive. You can also add a 2 bar MAP sensor for boosted applications. The FAST eDist box has issues. Your much better off using the stock ECU.

Andrew

Fully ported GTP 5.3 heads
Ported TB
Underdrive pulley
Cold air intake
LS6 ported oil pump
JTR LT headers
LS6 intake manifold
11.2@126mph 1/4 mile with 1.8x 60ft (driven by Mas280, haven't taken it to the strip myself yet)

Was the car tuned? I assume so.

It was indeed. Also have a 225/225 TSP cam, which I forgot to mention in the mod list Mdessouki mentioned.

I assumed it was cammed but torquecenral is down so I couldnt verify wich one. It seems like everyone that does these swaps wants realy high hp numbers. Im just going to use my 3inch exhaust and a intake. I might port my tb if I find time. I think Ill save my money for sticky tires and some hpd events.

You don't need one for the stock PCM either. You can disable it and run everything in speed density.

As mentioned, the individual coils hav ehteir own ignitor.

The stock PCM is pretty good with the software avaiable. You can always step up to a piggyback (Megasquirt), or standalone (DFI, FAST, Bigstuff3) when the time comes for boost. Really, if you're planning on running less than 1 bar of boost, the stock PCM with either EFILive or HP tuners will work just fine.

I chose the Bigstuff3 (http://www.bigstuff3.com ), but I like bells and whistles :D
, and I'd like to be able to run more than 1 bar of boost :evilgrin:

Go for it, the LS1 swap is awesome.

RIGHT ON MAN!
me too, and its been a wise choice.

The person I bought it from actually had a 233/239 cam in it before which made even more hp, but I opted for the 225/225 for better low end power and driveabliity.

Good idea on the sticky tires hpde's, that's what I would do if I didn't have they money for mods (which I don't, and I'm lucky I found this one for sale with all that stuff included :) ) Luckily I have some toyo RA1's sittin in my garage for the auto-x in 2 weeks and a HPDE on the 21-22nd at Willow springs :D

1 bar of boost, on a V8!!! I think I will be content running 8 or so pounds. 8 or so pounds would probably be at or over 600RWHP I would think?

My car is in cherry condition. Paint is perfect, interior is flawless. Anyone else do up a nice car, or get one that was pretty beat up?

Well, I'm starting with 6 psi, but I'm leaving myself room to grow. :D Of course it will depend on turbo choice, etc, but I'd guess that I will need 10psi to hit 600rwhp

While mine wasn't mint, it was in good shape, and the motor still ran just fine. My car could use some new paint, new carpet, and the few really small dings and scratches could be dealt with, but otherwise it's in great shape.

DP

I'm sure 600 rwhp could be done @ 8 psi on a stock motor; however, you'll need a decent-sized turbo, and just as with the rotary, you'll sacrifice spool for more flow. Also, it seems that the general consensus on LS1tech.com is that if you expect to make 550-600 rwhp for any period of time, you'll need a forged bottom end.

ALL RX7'S WITH A LS1 MOTOR SWAP PLEASE READ!!!!

I stumbeled upon this site by accedent! I have a friend who has a rx7, he has talked about puting a LS1 into it. Being the owner of a LS1 I thought this was a good idea, until I heard some of the shit u fruit cakes wher talking on this site!!!

First of all their was this fag trying 2 say that gm copied the rx7 n its aerodynamic body lines.WELL...... If you look back to f-bodies and vetts back n the day, they had a aerodynamic body line dateing back 2 the 60'S!!! Look at many import 2day with their aftermarket ram air hoods, What Are the old school amd new school Mach one, camero, and trans ams copying you???!!!! All of you are proving how gay u really are on this forum. NOT only are you Rice Burrners Trying to be as fast as American cars by taking our motors,
your trying to look like us now!!! Do you understand the discrace u are to the super powers of Japan, thats what rx7 are, the super powes of Japan. Even People in Japanes forums think all of u guys are pitifull.

Then their was another jackass trying to compare the GM motors and their quarter mile times. With some home made chart that my 5 year old nease could do a better job of making!!! Its kind of funny the newest motor was a LT1 listed on this list, he was trying to say it ran high 14's!! We'll I dont know where the hell you get your times from but in my world I go based off of what I see at the track, REALITY!!!!!Ive seen stock LT1's hit 13.7's. Thats only Lt1's... What about the LS1's, Ive seen stock ones hit 13.0's and 12.9 with just a airlid, and muffler, not a cat back, no NOS. Dont even get me started bout the almighty LS6, LS2. or the all new LS7 thats comming out in this summer of 2005 in the new ZO6( Its actually called the Z07). 500 hp/ 500 fp of torq. I think that is well enough to hit an 11 in the quarter with some decent tires! And these are stock motors, STOCK NO INTERNAL MOTOR MODS. OHH YEAH dont even make me mention the STOCK, STOCK ZL1 motor from gm witch they STILL PRODUCE in special edition edition f-bodies ( Camero/ Firebirds). Its A 422 ci motor that runs 9's in the quarter stock no bolt ons no power adder of any kind!!!!!

Many of you fagets are saying that you beet a stock ( no internal ) LS1 with your upped boost, WELL THATS NOT STOCK!!!!!!!!!

I also hear u fagets saying you have a LS1 swap and u have stage 3 heads, full exhaust, cam,etc, AND you brag bout beating a STOCK LS1 f- body9 Camero/firebird)
IF the ls1 had the same mods exactly as u do in your rx7 it would smoke your ass. You guys understand nothing about what happens when you throw that big ass motor in a rx7. you become as heavy as a ls1 f-body (camero/firebird). DO U UNDERSTAND MY TRANS AM WEIGHTS 3,200 pounds with me in it, AND my 5.7 LS1. GET A GRIP I'LL SMOKE ANY OF U FAGETS THAT THINK IM WRONG!!!! IVE PROVED 3 OF U WRONG ALREADY, THOSE OF U KNOW WHO U R!!! ANY OF U THAT DONT BELIEVE ME BRING IT. ILL PROVE YOUR PATHETIC ASSES WRONG 2!!!!! GAME OVER... I WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, you need to get a hold of yourself. You must have a penis problem or something. What a douche bag.

3200 pounds, b.s.

It's just a car you retard. Take your staight axel, iron stamped suspension sled and shove it up your ass.

Go get laid while you are at it.

You have no clue what you are talking about do you MYLS18U? Please mature or feel free to not visit our message board again. Many of us could care less about 1/4 mile times or how a LS1 adds 500lbs to the weight of our car as you seem to think.

I have a good friend that drove one of those aerodynamic corvettes from the '60's. At the twelve hours of Sebring in 1965 in a Gransport. He says the faster you went the lighter the car got in the front until at about 160mph you thought the front wheels were off the ground. Thats some great aerodynamics :rlaugh: I'm sure glad our cars have moved forward in technology. I don't see much difference in early to late model GM products(except the newest Corvettes). That guy is now 70 and still racing....... an RX7.... nuff said.

Thanks for the laugh dude, I haven't read anything that funny in a long time :crackup:

Hopefully by the time you're actually old enough to drive you'll learn to spell CamAro, not once but you mispelled it TWICE fucknut. thinks I'm a jackass or not cause everyone already knows I'm a dick.

OK, that is the funniest post I have read in quite some time.

Does it hurt your feelings that my 17 year old RX-7 with a stock LT1/T56 is faster than a C5 Z06?

Too bad we're across the continent from each other as I would take you up on your challenge.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the T56/LS1 combo a mear 30 pounds heavier than the rotary motor/tranny?

You can feel the frustration in his post...

ignorant to say the least.

ZKeller, I'm actually in the same boat as you with this SM2/CDI situation. The plan was to use the SM2 if I decide to pull the trigger as you say but apparently It will be simpler to just use the stock ECU. Any information on this issue that you would care to share would be great.

thanks,

Which is slower - your Trans-gender or your mind, "Faget"?:D

He gets no pussy.
That is all.

wow how ignorant in number weight. The stock FD with a little turn of a knob would still take it. Sounds like a leftist...the scream so loud you can hear what they are saying. Oh by the way......dont let import items that allow that vette to run stop the American Flag. GIT ER DUN.

I corner weighed my LS1T56 swapped 1987 Sport, 4-piston 5 lug, widebody FC on 5zigen 17x10's all around, nonturbo aluminum hood, with a full Series 5 interior swap, an S4-T2 lsd rearend, no A/C, no PS pump, no stereo, on TeinFlex coilovers, dual 2.5'' exhaust and it came in at 2722 pounds with 3/4 full gas tank.

hmmm, 2722 lbs and 330hp/350tq thru a 6speed, yes this is good!

that is the same weight as a T2 of the same year with a lightened aftermarket exhaust.
in fact we had the same percentages front and rear... 54/46.

now, sure, a nonturbo would be a hundred pounds less if in comparable condition.

I could get my car down another 100 pounds with a lexan rear window and removing some unnecessary interior parts and the floor tar, not to mention lighter wheels and aluminum coilovers could shed another 50 pounds if you have the money.