On the fence, LS1 conversion
 

My car runs good and all, but I have been thinking about the LS1 conversion alot lately.

I run high boost and I am sure my days are numbered.

All I read is how happy people are with the conversion, never a bad thing about it, and about how it is the best thing that they did to their FD.

I would like some more feedback from those that have done it.

I know all about the small weight difference, etc.

I do not read much about how the 6-speed tranny works out. The most common topic is the added torque.

I've done tons of research about it. I met Brian Hinson and his mechanic Lane at the Deal's Gap meet 3 weeks ago. They seem like great guys. My concern as of late is the prospective cost. I don't know if you are planning on doing it yourself or having someone else do the work. I do not have the tools, the space, the time, or the skills to do the swap. It seems like if you want Hinson to do the swap it will cost around $12k including the motor and trans to have an FD making around 320 hp with matching torque. Of course, you can sell all of the rotary-specific stuff and get some (alot?) money back. If I did something so radical to my car, I would want it to be especially fast. Then you have to decide on how fast you want to go. An FD with only a mild heads/cam package went 10.9 @ 124 a few weeks ago. That car probably only has a bit over 400 rwhp.

I'll try not to ramble, but as of right now, I think I'm leaning towards staying with my rotary because of the prospective cost. If you want to do more serious reading, you should go over to torquecentral.com and join up. They have a dedicated section to V8 Rx7s where you can find a lot of info.

Feel free to IM me (ThePianoProdigy) and we can talk further if you want. I haven't decided either way yet, so maybe you can help me make a decision as well. :bigthumb:

Thanks for the repsponse. I have the tools and the ability to do the swap myself. I even have a bid on Ebay for a trans/motor setup.

My fuel system is also ready to go as I have an external pump, regulator and all new lines.

The conversion pieces will come from Brian at Hinson. I am real close to pulling the trigger BTW.

I do have an awesome setup now and it runs great as I have explained earlier.

I would cam it up and upgrade the springs before putting the engine in the car.
You are correct about selling pieces/parts to make up the difference.

I have tons of stuff to unload, including my engine which has great compression.

I would put the air conditioning back on, hook up power steering and make the car as streetable as possible.

If I were in your position (tools and know-how), it would likely be a no-brainer for me. My motor unfortunately does not have great compression, so I'm trying to stomach the thought of paying for a rebuild after only 2 years and 15k miles. I think the worst part about it is worrying about it. It may last another year, it may blow up tomorrow. Unfortunately, getting a rebuild probably won't take away that feeling. :(

How much power is your car making? I imagine with 22 psi on that turbo you'd be close to 500 rwhp. While the driveability will be much better with an LS1, you'd need a pretty aggressive setup to get that kinda pull. Just a cam isn't going to do it. I was leaning towards having a motor forged and doing a Procharger. It will still provide great top-end without so much power that you're blowing the tires off everytime you hit the gas.

You're correct about the cam. I know it will not make up for the top-end pull of my car with 22PSI. A good tune, cam, larger throttle body, Hinson intake and headers will put that car in the 385 range from what I hear. Add heads and that will put you a little over the 400RWHP range. Again, this is information that I gathered from reading the last few days. i even thought about running a small supercharger.

22PSI is on the hairy edge, regardless. I think I'd miss the BOV and the jet-sounding spool of the turbo. :D

I hear that. I just finished reading your post about your dyno numbers. It is certainly making big power. My car only made 425 whp @ 20 psi on a T66 with 100 octane. It also made 380 whp @ 14 psi. It's not picking up much hp/psi (10ish). The turbo is puking some oil and has a bent fin on the compressor. I've had thoughts of upgrading the turbo, but I would hate to sink money into it only to have the motor let go (Mid 6s on a 3mm seal motor). Anyways, I don't know why I'm telling you all of this. I've thought of getting that GroundZero LIM, but I don't know if it would fit with my setup. If you decide to part out your car, let me know. I might pick up that LIM from you.

I''ll let you know on the LIM. I am at least going to try and enjoy the car a little this weekend before she would go under the knife. I am getting alot of opposition from many and support from others.

If the engine was nuked right now, it would be an absolute no-brainer.

I debated about doing the swap forever after I blew my 3rd motor and ended up just building another rotary. I have a heavy foot and when I want to get on it, I will. I hated not being "able" to go WOT cause the intake or water temp was a little too high. Anyways the forth motor only lasted 6 months so that defiantly made me do the swap.

Now I wish I had done the swap sooner, I love it.

Expect the swap to end up costing $9-10k and use Hinson for the parts you need or don't want to make yourself.

It will be worth the effort. Expect some great low end torque with a good top end pull still. Maybe not as insane as a turbo top end pulll.... but it is a much wider powerband. Also 28mpg+ on the highway (with T56), factory stock bottom ends that are pretty stout (9's/10's on nitrous won't be tough), and ease to work on are some more +'s. The swap allows you to beat on it without constantly monitoring oil/water temps and worrying about a bad batch of gas blowing your motor. Have your cake and eat it too.

Get a ride in one... and you'll be convinced. With the proper upgraded suspension the incredible handling will still be retained.

An abundance of LS1 engine builders and tuners at your disposal vs. a handful in the country that can build/tune a serious performance rotary and then still have the possibility it will let go.

I say sell your rotary parts now and pay for probably 1/2 the conversion. There is essentially no fabrication. The electrical part is the worst (IMO), everything else is a logical bolt in affair.

Need more power.... Stock ls1 block/crank with upgraded rods/pistons have made 1000rwhp+ already without failure in custom turbo setups. There are quite a few making ridiculous numbers like this.... Or a 402 LS2 setup n/a making 525rwhp+ on pump gas.

I'm shooting for 450rwhp with AFR heads, healthy cam, long tube headers, stock LS1 shortblock and a few other minor bolt ons (underdrive pulley, cold air K&N,etc).

Do the research, make a list of costs involved, and then decide if this is for you. I think after you add up all the rotary parts you can sell.... it won't be that expensive.

-Mark

I have a ton of stuff to sell. I figured that I will be able to get at the minumum of 9 grand for everything that I have.

I would do a supercharger if anything. There is a nice setup they make that would work with minimal fittment issues.

zkeller... I also had a single turbo kit on my fd before doing the conversion. At one time I was making 420 rwhp on pump gas, And I am much happier with the car now than I was then. Especially after one trip to the road course with not a single problem. And the driveability on the track was awsome. I sold all my single turbo and rotary driveline and did the work myself and it didnt cost me a penny out of pocket for the swap.

Jonathan

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I'm curious. What supercharger are you looking at? I'm wondering if I've missed one.

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Sorry for having to edit your posts guys. That troll slipped one in.

If anyone posts anything like what was posted, feel free to let me know (if I don't catch it first) and I'll take care of it.

Sorry, the supercharger I came across is for an LT1.

The GTO kit has fit in a FC and just might fit in a FD.

I sat with Brian Hinson at dinner at Deals Gap and talked for an hour or so about the swaps. I think the biggest advantage is the durability and MPG. I did the math and if I made mine a daily driver (which is possible with the LS1 conversion) I could save $1,200 per year in gas! I am seriously considering it!

I really can't think of any major downsides to this swap. If you have the cash to build/maintain/tune a 400+ rwhp rotary, you should have no problem affording the ls1 conversion.

I should be in real good shape now I hope. I just picked up an 02 Z28 with 45k miles on it for 5,900 bucks. It's wrecked in the front, not too bad. Should be able to pull the motor/trans and sell the rest of the car for at least 2 grand since it has t-tops, leather and the chrome wheels.

I have a descided to run my Autronic ECU for my swap for full tuning capabilities.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Another plus is that NGK plugs for the LS1 are $12 for a set of 8 and you can get them at O'Reileys!!

Congrats on picking up the car.

Good luck on your conversion. I look forward to your progress with it and I hope it goes smoothly for you. Our shop is repairing an LS1 [LS6 specs] engine for a forum customer right now. We've all been impressed by the quality of the Hinson conversion parts. It has created a buzz and there will be an audience to see this thing run when the job is completed.

Rx-Ben was going to use his Autronic ECU for his LS1FC but the LS1 stock PCM (ecu) is fully programmable and all you need is good programming software... which is readily available: HpTuners and Ls1edit. I think the other pieces needed to run the Autronic made it more complex than it needed to be plus added more cost to the setup for no great advantage.

just a heads up...

and congratas on the good deal on that donor car!

Thanks for the information.

One of the attractive advantages to using the Autronic ECU in my opinion is the fact that you will not need the Mass Air Flow sensor. I can just strap a silicone coupler on the throttle body and run it down to the air cleaner.

You will only need the TPS, coolant temp, air temp, crank angle, and cam sensor to run the car. No EGR sensors, no O2 sensor.

Also when I add a little positive intake manifold pressure this winter, the ECU will come into play further.:p:

You must use a converter from FAST and a reluctor adapter for the CAS signal.

Do you know if the stock GM coils have built in ignitors or are they just standard coils? That in itself would be a desiding factor because I cannot use coils with ignitors.

You won't regret it, ls1 conversions are a blast!