best american V8 vs price.
 

ok so far i been doing a ton of research about which engine would best fit my wants and needs. So far im looking into chevys 6.0L LS1. The only bad thing about, is that it will be ateast 130lbs "estimated" heavier than a stock TT FD. It has huge potential for power. it comes stock 370 or 380 tq and upgrades are the same as the other models. What do you guys think??

Where did that weight figure come from? I've read numerous times that the iron blocks only weigh 80lbs more than the aluminum and it's been well-documented that that combination weighs a few lbs LESS than a stock TT rotary and it's supporting equipment. Honestly if weight is your primary concern, use a complete aluminum 5.7. A cam swap will get you the same numbers you're looking for and save you those 80lbs.

duramax diesel. LOL most cost effecient.

lol yeah a diesel would be great. i got the estimated weight from ls1tech and torque central while i was searching around. the iron block 6.0l would be cheaper. the 6.0 block is the same as the 4.8 and 5.3 truck engines. its just bored out and stroke more, obvious. weight is not my primary concern whats 80 more lb really going to do. Looking for something that will be ez to gain huge power, ez to drive, good gas milage, will have a ton of potential, and cheap =D. So far i have seen bare blocks w/ internals online for around 200-500 bucks. this would be the best option since i would like to upgrade the heads, shallower oil pan and the rest of the goodies. Trying to pay for just what i need and nothing more. its going to be a DD street car. Wonder if anyone has done a diesel into an FD. :)

Same crank as a 5.7 liter LS1, just bigger bore and pistons to go with that said larger bore.

As far as cheapness, it might not be - demand is starting to get high for the truck motors, its not a very well kept secret, lol.

As far as diesels... I fail to see how they would not be madly expensive by themselves, plus youd need to do a IRS pumpkin swap so that you would have longer gears. 4.11s and a diesel dont mix!

if you're going diesel, you could always look at the audi diesel v-8's and v-6's they have over in europe. those things are amazing.

Those audi diesels are expensive as hell. The 6.0, i notice are getting up there in prices as a pulled and running engine. There are also a lot of cheap unfinish projects on ebay for those engines.

Do you guys know how much hinson charge for the 6.0 he sells?

i'd do a diesel for shit's n giggles.
only problem is unless you swap out hte rear end, your top speed will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 70-80 mph

and how come nobody mentions chevy's (gas) truck motors? they can still put out 400+ hp, and you can pick them up with the computer and crap for like $1500-2k, instead of the 3-4k for an ls1.

since you're gonna be spending money anyway, put a blower on the truck motor and put out more power than the ls1 for less money :)

dp

You mean Americans really do make good V8's all the chevys, fords and mopars I have seen and worked on have been outdated pushrod crap!

don't knock pushrods. i had 330k on my camaro's engine when it finally kicked the bucket.

and if you can design lightweight pushrod v8 that has 500hp and gets 27 mpg, go for it.

oh yea...stick a warranty on it too ;)

well as far as piston engines go v8 = crap unless its DOHC or has VVT, come on there are boxer 4's pulling more and are more robust EJ207's what about SR20DETT I4's or RB26DETT and 2JZ I6's even an VG30DETT v6's

AF1 - You are getting a lot of crap here from people who read the car magazines but never worked on a swap. Listen to guys like CrashTestJoey - he has actually done the swaps and knows what he is talking about.

If cost is a consideration, the small block Chevs and Fords are excellent engines, without all the complexity of the overhead cams, etc, which buy you nothing unless you really need something to brag about. If this is for the street or for drag racing, a pushrod engine is fine, although you would want to get something recent enough to have roller cam and roller rockers. If you plan to race it at Lemans, then you should drop in a Nissan Sylvia turbo motor!

The Ford 302/5.0 is about 75 pounds lighter than a Chev 350, but there is a lot more performance equipment available for the Chev. Either one will easily make all the horsepower you want for street use, and be very reliable and long life.

yeah, motor's from the 80's are outdated. :rolleyes:

hey, the vette's got a quad-cam 350 for a couple years. didn't do any better than pushrods, though.

i agree you don't want pushrods flappin' around when you're turning 8k rpm, but stock-production v8's don't turn 8k rpm. 5500-6kish, a bit more for some, but that's ballpark. the advantages overhead cams give, in terms of higher revving stability are pointless at that rpm range.

it'd be like using a peripheral port engine and never revving above 6k.

My duallie has 4.11 gears. Need your house moved? :us4allswi


:ylsuper:


:lol2:

The 6.0L i was talking about is a chevy truck engine lol. Doing a SR20 or RB25/26 wont have as much potential as any high displacement V8 and it will cost 2x more for the power, plus paying for the gas lol. Those fools reading the magazines need to wake up and realize that america make really great motors and are cheap. most guys spend 2x or more spending on engine upgrades and will still not reach the level of say an LS1: 4.8, 5.3, 5.7, or 6.0. Parts are cheap and tons of available upgrades. Its like having a B16 or B18 series but with upgrades that acturally makes the engine better hahaha. If those guys acturally spend time checking out what the V8 guys are talking about they might acturally learn something. Built internals + boltons = 600hp/600tq ez. then u have room for boost =D. Cheapest way for boost would be a SC. A turbo will have more potential but who is going to need that much power. I forgot tunning also. More cylinders = less piston movement and longer life with high power. Im pretty set on going with 6.0L LS1 LQ4 or LQ9. The LQ4 would be cheaper but 10 less hp stock. This thread was for those guys who have expierence and knowledge of american beast muscle. Just asking for their opinion on which v8 are best bang for the buck for 600+ power. Any more flames about american v8 are crap is just retarded. I been around guys doing Rb26 into their s14/13 in the states or doing an Sr20 or the other hyped up engines. These are close friends not guys i just heard about on the streets. The problems and money they spent was not worth what the outcome is. Thanks for the guys who are posting and know what they are talking about. You other guys who dont have a clue, go get educated yourself on what the redneck guys are doing around the block before u start criticizing.

You missed my point. I am talking about kiloWatts per liter and VE of diffrent motors and GM is the most unlikly place you will find real enginering trust me I have been working the automotive feild for years. I work beside a GM Grand Master Tech and a VISTA tech look it up. Lori used to work in the sweedish HQ


And back to the topic if you want an Amarican V8 get A VETTE!!!!!! not an rx-7 the car was build around a rotary if you change that it will Sacriface the cars dinamics!!!!!!! the VETTE was build around a V8 so buy that!!!!!

P.S.

V8 have more stress on the crankshaft, have more vibration (need more damping) and more friction. plus they are build loose.... I won't waste my breath on anymore advanced topics on my point. It will fall on deaf ears anyways

Are u serious? im not going to keep it 100% stock. And im not talking about kilowatts per liter. if i wanted kilowatts per liter i would keep the rotary. I want cheap, ez, power, and reliabilty. People say that GM suck because they have huge displacement engines but dont make enough power to match the volume. i bet those same people dont look at the price either. getting everything without sacrificing too many. If i wanted a Vett i would of saved up and gotten a vette. But the FD is good looking, lightweight, great handleing, its cheaper, and getting full coverage insurance for a 21 year old in germany is cheaper here. they go by the engine size not type, eg, twin turbo. sport , coupe. I love motorsport, rx7, and rotarys. I just realized that i been lying to myself that rotary engines are the best because they have small displacement and produce huge power. But after 4 years of owning 2 FC, 1 FB and how 2 FD i came upon searching for something better. The rotary concept works. but its not the best. Maybe it needs more development, but still love the concept. High displacement V8 in a small block is great. Being a little longer than a 4cyl and shorter than a I6 cyl. Have u ever seen an RB25 or 26 in an s13? u hardly have room between the radiator and engine. I dont know how a 2jz would fit an FD. The VQ30 have taller heads, being dohc, and is wider than pushrod V type engines. The stock turbo system on them will be hard to make fit. Why would anyone who love motor sport rant on something if it makes that vehicle better? is it just because it goes against your steriotype of the guys with big trucks and redneck cars?

Do we have a "who gives a fuck" smiley on this board? :squint:

How about you and I race. You're not afraid of a junky old worthless Corvette pushrod engine in an RX7 with no soul, are you? I don't work in the automotive field and even I know that the first one to the finish line wins :fawk:

P.S. Fucking Canada. Why haven't we gone to war with them yet? :MissileSm

Damn you're mean, but i can see why since u guys get a lot of flake for doing the swap. Its just common sense. ok The Chevy LS1 6.0L best bang for the buck?...anyother engines?

Yeah, and whats the outer diameter of the tires on that vs those on a FD? :balls:

did you bump your fucking head?

ls1 in a camaro: 320 hp bone stock (easy 400 smog-legal hp with cam, intake, and exhaust), 30+ mpg when you cruise.

renesis in an rx8: 230ish hp, but only 150-175 makes it to the wheels on the dyno, 19-22 FREEWAY mpg....IF it's driven on tippy toes.


yea, american's really suck at engineering :rolleyes:
i don't care where you've worked for years, you've still got your head up your ass. you think just because it doesn't spin 9k rpm's it doesn't have incredible engineering behind it? let's see you design something from scratch.

yah right... lol

your dreaming.. a 400 hp camero that gets 30 + mpg?? on a towtruck, maybe
my buddies 02 ls1 camero(last year it was made) gets at best 23 -25 pushing it ... 6 speed on his way back from vegas 70 mph....... his is 305 @ the wheels .. approx 345 flywheel

i hate this statement. :rolleyes:

this is why i didn't buy a vette.

1.) I'm only 18, with no chance in hell of paying off $400-$500 monthly payments - i'm paying 140 dollars a month for my swap, i already paid off my FD.
2.) corvette's are about $33,000-$55,000. my swap stayed under $10,000 ($9,565 exactly, that's including the car and everything else for the swap :) )
3.) i wanted something with AMAZING handling, very lightweight, out of the ordinary, and amazing looks (something that's NOT a corvette) - the FD is perfect.

why pay 30K+ when i can have something that's, in my opinion, better? :)
i will love my LS1 FD ;)
:wtf:

Man that idiot's giving Canadians a bad name. I too was a mild V8 hater at first, but then i learnt more about them, and now I want an LS series motor in my car. Can't argue with cheap, light, reliable, fuel efficient horsepower! Having a high volumetric efficiency is nice, but it's cold comfort when you get your doors blown off my a car with a bigger engine and way more power. It gets much harder to build a high VE motor when the displacement gets bigger. The M5 has a 5L V10 that uses nearly every trick in the book to get just over 500hp. Small, sub-2L 4 cylinders have a much easier time getting VE #'s that high, and Honda, amongst others, has been doing it for more than a decade now in reasonable priced cars. I really like the idea of a LS1-RX-7, especially in an FD, as they're notoriously unreliable. Pushrods aren't the best, but it's compact and they can still rev pretty well (7000RPM, 7L LS7 for instance).

The fact remains, there's no better, cheaper way to get 400whp+ than with an LS motor.

Ok so far most of the post are bitching backing and forth lol. Anyone have expierence with the 5.0 or SVT cobra engines? will a dohc engine fit in an FD and will the subframe match up? see some really cheap prices for ford stuff.

There's no kit available for it, and you'd have one hell of a time trying to make exhaust fit the DOHC motor. They barely fit in Mustangs. I'm not saying it CAN'T be done - I just wouldn't recommend it unless you have the time, money and fabrication skills to pull off a difficult proposition. Honestly the LS1 is the best deal going right now.

STR 8 hemi? lol those things are pretty beasty and 4cylinder cruising. with an FD and a pretty moderate rear end, could the 40mpg number be reached? But yes i agree LS1 FD are close to 100% perfect sport car at a cheap price.

Glad you guys are calling this guy on on his closed minded bullshit. I remember I got banned from here for saying the exact same things you guys are. ;)

It's so nice, however, to see a section of an RX7 site devoted to swapping the enignes. Maybe it'll make people like "Gentleman" realize that a car is more than it's engine, and the reason we build/built V8 RX7s is to get inexpensive, reliable, driveable, high hp engines in some of the best chassis ever mass produced. We think the RX7 is attractive, well built, ergonomic, light, inexpensive, and did I say attractive? And it works equally well in it's role as a sports GT regardless of motive power, it seems.

my mom's friend has one. we took a drive to modesto. 90 mph most of the way, bone stock car (exhaust would have helped fuel economy), 28.6 mpg.

The 5.0 is a nice, light, compact engine, and if you put on the aluminum heads, it's even lighter. I used a built up one in my FC. But... without a supercharger, it's harder to make the kind of power a lightweight LS1 will make in stock form. And the supercharger increeases the weight and cost to well over that of an LS1 swap. And, the 5.0 is taller, so it's harder to fit under the hood of the FC, much less the lower FD hoodline.

As for the SOHC/DOHC 4.6? Expensive and HUGE. Going to DOHC, I'd rather recommend the Toyota/Lexus 1UZ 4 liter DOHC. Identical in overall size and weight to the LS1, but not too expensive to buy (though in order to use it with a manual, the adapter and flywheel to use the Supra gearbox is pricey. I'm in the process of doing that swap right now in my '63 Mercury Comet...).

He was talking about a camaro, wtf is a camero? :fawk:

that's how mexican's spell it.

YOU should know that :p:

yah, you must be dumb!!! LOL
im stupid :) sometimes

Are you reading all these replies???
 

"Originally Posted by AF1
Ok so far most of the post are bitching backing and forth lol. Anyone have expierence with the 5.0 or SVT cobra engines? will a dohc engine fit in an FD and will the subframe match up? see some really cheap prices for ford stuff."

Go back and read my reply number 14. I never heard of anyone putting a 5.0 Ford in and FD, but lots of them in 1st and 2nd gen cars. Everyone with an FD seems compelled to use something MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE. I am not sure why, except to get better bragging rights.

No matter which engine you choose, or whose kit you buy, a swap into an FD is always going to be more complex and expensive than a swap into an earlier car. It is a very complex, high tech car. Sorry, but I just don't understand why that requires a complex high tech motor.

www.cardomain.com/ride/646433

Thats a pimp ride. I think my best option would be going with a bare 6.0 iron block and doing the upgrades as i build it. this way i wont have to pay too much for an engine. It still need to shop for the tranny + kit + accessories.

if you knew the racial slurrs that go about when anjew and i hang out, you'd probably get offended! but it's all for shit's n' giggles

irishmexicanjew :p: (Look at the bold part, weird ey?)

Because the 5.0 won't fit under a stock hood, and the LS1 (and a few of the other mentioned) will. That's the bottom line. The fact that an LS1 is more powerful, more fuel efficient and just as readily available is just gravy :)

By the way it's boxster not boxer. All the motors you have named still make less power than the so called outdated LS1, and the LS1 still weighs less than them.

This guy does not know what he is talking about. He has obviously been brainwashed by Super Street magazine and 2f2f, where an eclipse miraculously beats a Yenko Camaro, whoduh thunk it????

Either way, have you looked into maybe an ls2 bottom end, and use ls6/ls1 heads. I have seen bare shortblocks go for 900-1k on ebay. 6 liters pushing 400hp and the torque to match.

^ yupe thats what i been looking into. it wont be ready to run, but it wont hurt my pockets either and will be upgraded while being built. Will match up with a supercharger nicely.

Actually, he was talking "boxer" 4s, which is what engines like the flat 4 in the Subaru WRX and old air cooled Bugs are called. "Boxster" is only the name for the Porsche mid engine 6 cyl convertible model. And interestingly, the flat 6 in the Porsches (and the flat 12 in the Ferrari 512 BB) are also labelled as "boxer" engines. In fact, that's what the second "B" in "512 BB" stands for. "Flat", "horizontally opposed", "180 degree vee", and "boxer" are all terms for the same engine layout.

Ok, back to the thread, already in progress... ;)

what do you guys think about this. . . http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...s/0405htp_ls2/

i was looking at the ls2 on ebay, and they seem to go for a good bit cheaper than the ls1 + t56 setups.

the article i linked to was very interesting. it seems as though the ls2 would be the best bang for the buck. . . but how do you make it work with the electric throttle? i figured you could just put a manual throttle on it, but wouldnt that mess up the ecu? i figured it used the "throttle by wire" as the TPS.

i liked (from what i read) the fact that the ls2 has ls6 heads and a 6.0ltr aluminum block.

okay, nevermind on the price quote thing. . . though they do seem to be around the same ballpark. . . hehe. . . :D

well it's nice too see that you all think I am a dumbass, and yes I did kinda over do it. My only point that I wanted to share was that the RX-7's were built around the RE powerplant meaning when you do a swap even a 20B three rotor you will change the Weight, front frame integrity, the chassis balance, suspension geometry and a lot more.

But hey maybe I am a biased (closed minded) Canadian Retard???

Ohhh and you didn't go to war with us because we supply you with power(electric and natural gas) and other resources

sorry if I affended anyone

FWIW Gentlemen, you have a point about swapping a 20B in an FD if it is turboed. And yes, Canada is our #1 souce of oil. An LS1 however weighs very close to the 13BTT and weight distribution can be more even on all corners when compared to stock, believe it or not. Here's one example, this car is not running ps,abs, and ac so not really equal but you get the idea:

Corner weight LS1 Rotary
Left Front lbs. 684 718
Right Front lbs. 695 718
Total Front lbs. 1379 1436

Left Rear lbs. 705 660
Right Rear lbs. 645 618
Total Rear lbs. 1350 1278
TOTAL Weight 2729 2714
% over Front 0.505 0.53
% over Rear 0.495 0.47

My LS1 FD weighs 2800 and is only missing the ac.

Joey said "Because the 5.0 won't fit under a stock hood, and the LS1 (and a few of the other mentioned) will. That's the bottom line. The fact that an LS1 is more powerful, more fuel efficient and just as readily available is just gravy"

Well, maybe you are an electroniker, but my degrees were in Aero, so I went for the simple minded, old fashioned carb. As for the hump in my hood, only the RX-7 guys ever notice it, and I think it is acceptable, but I can understand you might not want to mess up the lines of an FD.

It may be only a slight exxageration to say the LS-1 is just as available as a 302, but surely it is not as cheap. I certainly agree it is more efficient and potentially more powerful.

I am reminded of the quote from my old design professor, who said the Air Force claims were not doubt true - their latest supersonic bomber really would go Mach 2, fly at over 70,000 feet altitude, and fly 2500 miles without refueling, but definitely not all three at the same time!