351w swap
 

guys i'm at the begining of swap in my 80 rx7. have 351w on the way that i want to have a all aluminum top end. while i'm not shooting big hp i am going for at least 350hp.
car has stock 13" wheels and 185/70/13 tires.
any of you who has v8 power what rear rims are you using and what tires?

I am interested in you build. I am doing something similar. Are you going EFI or carb?

i want to go carb at this time just due to keep in a tight budget and maybe convert later to injected.
i already have rebuilt the rear end racing beat springs, shocks and bushings all around.
tonight i started to tear apart the front end to reverse the cross member and found both ball joints are done. are these still available?

Im doing a 460ci Windsor 4.155bore X 4.250stroke into a RX2, I had to tub mine

cool as hell looking car
i found a link here to diamond racing steel wheels made any size and bolt pattern.
trying now to work out width and backspace.
looks like a 15 x 8 and 4" backspace and a 245/50/15 tire

http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...80/rx7%201.jpg

http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...80/rx7%203.jpg

this is a before and after . blasted control arms and cross member , 2 coats of eastwood rust converter, 2 coats of eastwood rust encapser and 2 of vht chassis black
http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...80/rx7%205.jpg

http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...80/rxy%204.jpg
a

hmm..if ya know of a set of 351 headers..lmk,.

Are you using a front sump or rear sump on the 351w? Not sure how close the RX2 and RX7 but I was able to use a rack and pinion from an 07 hyundai and use a rear sump oil pan.

guys i don't know what you mean.
i do not have the engine yet. it is being shipped to me as well as the mustang tranny.
i have the rear all done with racing beat bushings , shocks and springs. front has same bushings and shocks but i just wanted to get this work done while i wait for
the new ball joints , sway bar end links and the motor to arrive.
i'm trying to decide what color to paint this car so i can paint the engine bay before the motor gets dropped in.
the dash is cracked and the seats need help so i can change the color of the inside.
just not sure which way to go.
i really dislike this color of the body and the brown carpet, seats and door panels

Ford 351W's have a front sump oil pan, which wont work with the original engine cross member, You will probably have to get a rear sump oil pan like the mustangs use, keep in mind 302 and 351 oil pans do not interchange because of main bearing size differences. The quick fix is to order a rear sump pan but those wont let you use the original steering system, so you either have to make a real wild custom oil pan to get around it all, or go with a rack and pinion. First photo shows how a rack and pinion fits between the oil pan humps, second photo you can see part of the 2x2 framing I boxed around the front hump on the oil pan. Your building an RX7 so your cross member may be different so it will be interesting to see how it turns out with clearance.

thank you for your thoughts
i need all the advise i can get. i'm not a v8 guy, 53 and this will be my first v8 engine build.
so i have no prior history to v8 or rx7 as this is the first for both.
only going with the cross member reversed and a 351w as per grannys racing claim .
i would rebuild the 12a if it wasn't retarded expensive.

grannys state on the site simple reverse the cross member for a 1st gen and 302/351 will drop in and hood will close.


brainsboy
looks like your building a killer , i love it

Interesting swap! Always interesting for me to hear of an older guy who isn't a "V8 guy". What do you usually wrench on?

Also Interesting screen name, would your last name happen to be french by any chance?
The reason I ask is because mine is. haha.

hi there thanks
yes getting older but still know what is cool and hope i never lose it.
always have been building bikes as in air cooled inline 4's have had 76, 78, 79, 81,83,88 honda and kawi's and latest build, cr250 frame, gsxr750 forks, zx10 rear shock.cbr600 f2 rear rim, vfrf750 front rim and cbr1100 xx rotors drilled to fit the vfr hub. xr400 motor.
dragraced bikes from 82 till 99.


as for cars i have a 91 honda prelude with a h22a swap as my summer car.
have always liked rb 26 swaps and had turbo civics.
wildest was a lsvtec boosted to 30 psi making 754 hp at the wheels.

in fact before i settled on the 351w , i had email into a jdm seller for a skyline rb26.
but watched a youtube vid of a engine builder with a 5 part session building a 351w and it made like 450hp and 385 ft lb .
so i decided to give it a try.

last name is in fact french and i'm gordie

guys can any of you suggest possible colors for this 80?
y6 indigo now but faded and looks like crap.
i've been thinking about silver but can't settle on it yet

A 302 can make an easy 350hp plus it's smaller and would fit better. With a 351W you should be able to make 400-425 without even trying. You will want a 351W Fox swap oil pan, which is nothing more than a 351W police car Crown Vic oil pan. Buy it off Rock Auto and save a few bucks from what Ford Racing charges. It is a double sump pan. Same as a Foxbody Mustang but for the 351W.

A 351W will not fit under a stock hood. I will be amazed if you make that happen. A 302 can barely fit. The 351W is taller than the 302 by over 1.25 inches.

Cool cars and bikes, I love working on 80s bikes. I have diamond racing wheels on the rear of my car, not sure of the specs but I could measure. I had to roll my fenders and I still rub

thank you guys
great topics being touched on
i do expect to need a oil pan and maybe a cowl induction style hood. but low as possible as a sleeper is the goal and ideas swirl for a twin turbo some thing.
that's getting too far ahead ......
just need to get every thing mounted and car painted a better color as well as as sitting right,
i made a simple jig to check tire clearance. aluminum 1/8 sheet bolted to the studs. 15" long with a threaded rod through one end. adjust for best clearance with a full rotation and that measure is your usable backspace. i can get aprox 5" backspace and this will only put the outer lip 1" out more then the stock rim . so a 15 x 8 and a 245/ 50/15 should just clear.

andrew yes please could you just check diameter and tire size

I know for a fact I am running 195/60/15 in the rear and am rubbing, I plan on going to a 195/50/15 so I can go lower after I pull the fenders more. The sheet metal is thin so its not a problem at all. On the front I did the Turbo II brake and hub conversion and am running 185/60/15 on a 7" rim with 4.5" back space and probably 3-4 degrees negative camber with pulled fenders and it clears fine. I am gonna drive the car this weekend and will take some pictures so you can see the fitment.

man you have my full attention now. i was wondering about a front brake upgrade so more info please on the parts you used.
i would like to see a twin piston caliper or more even wilwood calipers if possible

been working on the engine bay. have it stripped to bare metal and 3 coats of epoxy primer. i think i'm going silver.
want diamond steel wheels powder coated black and on a silver car will look sick.

this weekend i got the engine bay all primed
http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...80/rx7%207.jpg


http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...80/rx7%206.jpg

I pretty much copied the respeed kit. I do have the files though if you have somewhere local that does waterjet/laser/plasma CNC stuff. I used the Turbo II FC brake calipers, they are a 4 piston monoblock design, I am probably going to eventually put wilwoods in the rear for my hydro e brake.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...80d62211ae.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...20db23be86.jpg

wow sexy car
sitting perfect
great job

engine and t5 arrived today

anybody know how to get the front sway bar off

Thanks, Hopefully when I get new tires I can go even lower. I believe you have to remove the tension control rod mounts to get the swaybar off, why do you need to take it off?

thanks
on your car are those the diamond racing rims?
they look killer
swaybar is like anything i touch, has to be the best it can so racing beat bushings and i wish to plasti drip it red.

been at it every night after work and it's getting there

Definitely do the bushings on it and the endlinks. I ended up not painting mine. The rears are diamond racing and the fronts are cragers since I could get an off the shelf option with the 5 lug bolt pattern.

Freeskier the ride is looking great. I to am interested in viewing those Turbo II front brake mods. Any idea how hard it is to come up on Turbo II calipers to do the job?

I will take more pictures of them for you guys, I got lucky and found a turbo II that a shop was parting out locally. I think best bet would be check the classifieds here or ebay. If you guys are really interested I can have the mounts and bear adapters made.

last few nights as the rain settled in i was working on the t5. not knowing anything about v8 or mustang t5 5 speeds, i think i bought the wrong tranny. seems this one is a cable activated .
so thought about buying another when i searched for any conversion and made this setup.
this is the stock rx7 slave mounted on a plate i made.used a piece of 5/16 round rod threaded about 3 " for adjustments. plan to use the stock flex line and a new hard line back up to the master cylinder.http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/rx7%2010.jpg

http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...80/rx7%209.jpg

http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/rx7%2012.jpg

http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/rx7%2011.jpg

Looks like you probably need to get a different bellhousing only. I have a few ford bellhousings actually but Im not sure if they are V8 or not. Will that slave cylinder pull in when you put pressure on it? That would be the direction it needs to move inorder to release the clutch. YOu could also run a hydraulic throwout bearing

All manual transmissions (from Mustangs anyway) were cable operated until 2004. They went to hydraulic in 2005 in both the V6 and V8 cars. They are a pull configuration as mentioned by someone before me here. Be careful which bell housing you use with which T5. The 94-95 SBF bell housing is different than the 79-93 bell housing and the 94-95 T5 has a longer input shaft.

Ford did this because they increased the wheelbase of the car slightly and had to move the shifter location back a little bit to line up with the hole in the floor. Increasing the bell housing depth (to move the shifter back) required the longer input. And it allowed the same driveshaft to be used as the 79-93 cars.

What did your T5 come out of? I think I see an VSS output and not a mechanical output for the speedometer.

thanks guys
please keep your thoughts coming
slave pushes but see it's input is pointing to the bottom and it is just for mockup.
i want it pointing up so routing hose and hard line will be better

tjm73 the t5 came from a 88 mustang i was told but really who knows.

what is it about the bell housing ?

The SN95 (94-95) bell housing is deeper than the 79-93 Foxbody bell housing by about a 3/4" to accommodate the longer input shaft the T5 had in those years. Side by side they are easy to tell apart. The SN95 has a big 5.0 or 3.8 cast into it above the top of the trans where the trans bolts on and it also has a set of vents right above that. The Foxbody has neither of these. Your picture looks like the correct bell housing (Foxbody) based on what you were told it came from.

But it also looks like it might have an electronic VSS (vehicle speed sensor) when the speedometer cable usually plugs in by the shifter tower (drivers side). But cruise control Foxbody cars had a similar thing to allow the cruise to work and also had the speedometer cable plug into the end of it.

Lastly the transmission mount looks like it might have a SN95 style exhaust hanger on it. I haven't seen on in a long time to know for sure.

Measure the length of the bell/trans including the rubber seal on the end of the output. Don't know why but that seal is included on all the dimensions I see online. If the overall length is about 31 5/8", it's a Foxbody length setup. If it is about 32 1/4" it is a SN95 setup. Which could be '94-'95 5.0 V8 or '94-'04 3.8 V6. They use the same T5 in those years with only minor differences.

But I think after looking at bell housings online, you will find it to be a Foxbody length.

Also, there are several places selling hydraulic clutch conversions for the T5 in a Mustang. So your idea of converting it is totally doable.

thank you for the detailed info
i wanted to take some more pics so you could see different angles but too much rain.
engine is on a stand for tear down and tranny is on a pallet outside covered with a tarp. i don't have access to a garage and do all work outside.
makes for some hard times to do things.
i looked on line to see what you said about cast marks for 3.8 & 5.0 and mine has nothing there . i will need a break in the rain to get a measurement.
the vss is there , looks like a electric type of sensor . the other plug that can be seen behind the slave , is that the reverse switch?

Yes that is the reverse switch.

If the VSS looks like this, it's a speed control sensor. Which means the trans came from a car with cruise control. The pic is not clear enough for me to tell. If you do not need this sensor (and I'm betting you won't), you can eliminate the sensor by swapping to a non-cruise control speedometer cable. You will probably gain a little clearance. Which may or may not matter.

http://s7d4.scene7.com/is/image/Turn...larged810x608$

Here's a little something you may find useful. If you pull the VSS and can see the gear that runs the cable it should be yellow which is 7 tooth drive gear for an '88 T5. In 1990 they went to an 8 tooth drive gear. But yours should be yellow. This will matter when you go to make your speedometer work correctly.

http://www.mustangevolution.com/foru...s-switches.jpg

oh dear

i got a chance to measure after work and from the outside of the bell housing to the outer edge of the seal is aprox 32
so what does this mean?
vss is exactly as you pictured
but mine has no neutral switch as you pictured.

Approximately as in just under or just over 32"?

Ford put it's neutral safety switch on the clutch pedal assembly. I think that is a GM T5 from a Camaro.

tonight after work i will try to get a picture of what i measure
so you can see if i'm at the right places
thank you

ok here are the pics of how i measure the length


http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/rx7%2017.jpg


http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/rx7%2016.jpg


here is the info on this aluminum tag


http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...x7%20%2013.jpg

Does that tag say 13-52-238? That might be from a V6 from 94-2004.

Identification Key to Borg-Warner T5 transmission ID Tags

Have you measured the input? I think it would be prudent. 1993 and back T5 input is 7.189" and the 94-04 input is 7.87" long. You want the dimension shown as "B" below.

https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/...ions/t5dim.gif

The up to '93 T5 bell is 6.875" deep and the '94-'04 bell is 7.531"

yes tag does say 13-53-238, the 13 is just hidden by that bolt
that lying sob told me it was from a 5.0
does this mean the tranny is unusable?

i have not removed the bell yet
i will tomorrow to get that measurement

Either way it's usable. But depending on the input it may need modification. Also the tags are not always 100%. Some anomalies have been seen.

Have you measured the bell housing from block mount end to T5 mount end?

The good news is starting in '94 the V6 and V8 T5's were basically the same strength, so it's not notably weaker. Based on the tag number is may not have as deep an over drive (0.80 vs 0.68). The other good news is the T5 in Mustangs, regardless of year or engine they were put behind are the same length. The difference in overall length is in the bell housing.

The bad news on that is if the input is the longer length, it's from a '94-'98 car. But there is a silver lining. I have read where guys trim the input tip about 5/8" and swap the bearing retainer to a 83-93 unit and all is good.

ok here goes and now i'm glad i did this
removed the bell from the t5. to set my mind straight and bam it fits great. bolts rifght up with all holes in the right places.


http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/rx7%2019.jpg


next i measured the input shaft from the t5 base to the end of the pilot bearing end 7 3/8"

http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/rx7%2018.jpg

before trying it on the block i set the bell on a flat surface and checked its length at 7"

http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/rx7%2020.jpg


also with the bell on the block i measured from the crank pilot bearing area out to the flange where the t5 bolts at 8"
so i may be wrong but will this not just go together right?
if the shaft is 7 3/8" and the bell is 7" with pilot area at 8"
to me looks like 5/8 " to spare
i'm not sure if this means it fits but it did make me feel better about this whole mess

on another note my clutch and flywheel arrived today
still waiting on the starter

Glad to see you do actually have a Foxbody T5 like you thought you did when you bought it. Sorry if I caused you greif. Just questioned somethings that could have really rained on your parade if they were wrong.

so i take it that my measurements show it will work ?
your help here is second to none, with out it i would not know tonight that all is ok.
thank you for making me dig in and learn.


you did nothing but help, see all this was a result of my lack of knowledge.
and now we can move on to bigger things .... the engine.
i bought tonight a edelbrock dual plane aluminum intake 1500-5500 rpm
what can any of you who read this suggest for heads?

If you are sticking with the stock stroke and a 0.030" overbore (for a 357W), I'd suggest a pair of AFR 185 heads with a Comp Cams XE282 camshaft and Comp Cams 1.6:1 stainless steel rockers (lighter than aluminum and stronger too). Shoot for 10.25-10.5:1 compression minimum. Torque production won't be an issue. I would have gone with a single plane intake, but a dual plane will work. The car is so light making more torque down low won't make things faster. Even with the intake you just bought this should pound out 400 hp and probably 450-500 ft-lbs without breaking a sweat on pump gas.

well thank you
i'm hoping to do a comp test on the 351w when the starter arrives
i was told the comp yeilded 158 to 164 psi across the 8
i'm not going for high hp just a solid running clean painted block and looks of a all aluminum top end.
i'm not a fan of drifting or drag racing my own stuff and not a tire fryer. just simply a good sounding and looking ride
man aluminum heads are costly

You'll find it way too tempting to not burn some rubber everytime you drive the car once its finished ☺

guys parts are slow coming
today i got my intake in
and i search tonight but can't see a pic of what this is for
there are 4 thread holes towards the back

http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...m%20intake.jpg

Throttle linkage bracket.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...a777fc10c5.jpg

thank you
so i take it that i will need these and those rods and spring
where can i pick these up?

i getting some parts in slowly
http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/rx7%2021.jpg

http://http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/rx7%2022.jpg