368 HP dyno, 21 PSI Stock Turbos & motor
 

I just had my car on a dynojet again, this time it was with full non-sequential stock turbos. 368.88 RWHP, 335 torque, and max boost was 21.7 psi on the greddy profec b-spec 2 boost controller. When it hits full boost it goes up to 21 psi, then it drops down to 19 psi and holds steady all the way to redline, it actually starts creeping back up to 20 psi at the redline. Dyno sheets will be uploaded in the next post. When you look at the dyno sheet, you can see max hp is at 6k rpms, this is probably the rpm when boosting 21 psi, then you can see the hp drops down as the boost dropped down to 19 psi.

I also did the first dyno pull at my low boost setting, it peaked at 16.7 psi and it probably held at 15-16 psi since it always peaks higher than it holds after it peaks (I was watching the AFRs not the boost gauge). It only made 313 HP! This all proves to people who say that these turbos don't make any more power above 15 psi, they really can make much more power above 15 psi! 55 HP is a big difference.

And to add to that, my 2nd pull I made 362 HP, I turned up the boost a very small amount (from 67 to 69 on the boost controller) and made 368 HP on the 3rd pull.

My other thread is "342 hp dyno & 11.19 @ 123.80 video", that was when my car was on the dyno and only hit 19 psi on the dyno and its only been holding 17 psi boost at the track running 11.16 ET, I just found and fixed two big boost leaks from both bad gaskets in the turbo ypipe.

I think I will now hit 10s easily. I've done 11.16 and 11.19 when my car was making less HP and was heavier.

isn't dynojet readings uncorrected? Wouldn't you actually be making more power?

That's awesome man!

Run Conditions: 55.59 F, 29.14 in-Hg, Humidity 31%, SAE: .99

374.34 HP Uncorrected

Damn dude nice numbers. I read your other thread too. Way to dispel the disbeliefs! Let us know when you smack 10s in the face.

yeah but on a mustang dyno it would have read 40-60 hp less. i made 324 rwhp on a mustang dyno @14psi...... congrats either way.

Here is a graph that compares today's low boost VS High boost, and shows my HP from last year when I had the stock sequential twins and was making a little less boost then on the dyno.

Ya that's really good on a mustang dyno and only 14 psi. I don't know why my car doesn't make much HP until much higher boost, it makes me wonder if I need a new engine and then how much power I could make. But my motor didn't lose anything compared to 14 months ago, and I've been running lots of boost and drag racing and all on 93 pump gas.

wow, nice numbers. :) btw, what was the afr?

yeah, i dont know what your mods were, this was done at japtrix in riveara beach fl. so it was hot as shit outside when it was done.

i had the 99' turbo's. greddy 2row fmic, and elbow. koyo rad, m2 downpipe, catless mid pipe, and a single tip 3" catback system. hks twin intakes, and the aem ems.

It stayed between 11.1 - 11.4 AFR on my PLX R-500, mostly 11.1-11.2. I made sure they were all good on the highway the other night, late at night. I did have to add a little more fuel in the PFC after putting on the non-sequential turbos.

Good numbers... Ya know if you switched to BNR's you would be above 400 RWHP probaly around 430 ish :devil:

Ya If I wanted to be in further credit card debt lol, the non-sequentials were only like $200 so that fit my price range for now.

And I'd like to hit 10s and set a record for the fastest 1/4 mile RX7 with stock turbos and stock engine

Thanks.

Here is the dyno graph with the torque curves. As you can see there was a huge difference between sequential and non-sequential. But the car still feels fast at the low rpms, it doesn't feel slow, I have no complaints. Sure it was really nice to have the sequential system for that low end power, but I'm trying to get max power so I had to lose the sequentials and that low end power, and I don't regret it. I also got to lose 10 lbs of weight from removing everything from the sequential setup so that is nice.

Im assuming your old turbos finally blew?? I would have loved to seen the numbers you had made with them going from Seq to non-seq. These new turbos may not be in as good of shape as you thought.

I wouldnt say 10s are easy yet ;) I know you can launch the car really well but it is a different ballgame when launching non-seq compared to seq. Nice numbers either way.

No the turbos didn't blow, they still worked, well they still boosted good. I thought they were getting tired or something cause I wasn't boosting above 18 psi, but I wanted to go full non-seq. for maximum power from the stock twins so I got them, and I found both ypipe gaskets were blown out so that's why I couldn't get my old stock turbos to boost over 18 psi anymore and why I was only running 17 psi at the track this year but still ran 11.16. But the old turbos did just recently start to blow out alot of smoke after I let off the gas, and I think they may have been leaking coolant too, it was all wet inside the manifold. Maybe you are right about the newer turbos.

I thought it should launch the same, I launch at 7k rpms and it doesn't drop below 5k during the launch, both turbos were working during the launch, there was no waiting for the 2nd turbo to kick in.

I have like the same mods, Power FC plus a fuel system and more boost, but no 99 turbos, and no tuning of the timing maps. And it was much colder than that here.

I think a lot of people doubted the efficiency under higher boost because, well, you would think they would be inefficient... and I'm sure they are running out of efficiency, but they are still making more power. But no doubt, you are shortening their life as you know. Few people are going to do the tests you are doing because they don't want to risk the motor, but you've already gotten your money's worth out of that keg so why not keep pushing?

You are on straight 93 pump gas? What timing at 21psi?

Yes. Whatever comes with the power fc timing maps, I havent changed them although I would like to. Map trace shows the last row being used in the maps.

wow so you're using the base mod timing maps that come in the pfc? that is pretty impressive since it's tailored for a sequential car.

Perhaps it's the base map that's letting you down after 6k... With specified tuning you could probably make even more power.

Yea, I def. need a tune. :)

Yes. I do want to look at some other peoples timing maps and see what can be changed safely.

nice numbers. and way to push those stockers.. I think you can get into the upper 10's with that set up but sooner or later you will need to make the change !!!

actually, the leading timing on the PFC basemap isn't all that bad. It's the split that's pretty aggressive and not very safe for 21psi on pump gas. For a quick safety measure, go into your commander and change the last 4 rows to a split of 12. Since the Commander can't calculate split for you easily, here is what it should be. This is assuming you have a completely stock leading map.

stock leading map

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1229641720

stock trailing map

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1229641720

modified trailing map for 12 split over about 10psi to improve safety

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1229641720

Hey thanks so much for all that. I look into that after work.

Suprise! Some of us have been saying this for years.

Good job BTW.

:bowdown: Nice work, did you get any video of the dyno session?

Hey Tom, do you have the dynojet run files, it would appear you do since you were able to plot up your runs after the fact. Would you care to share them with me? I have some from my dyno run last year if you want to have them for comparison's sake.

No I didn't take any videos this time. I did get the files and downloaded the software which is really nice. Attached are the files. thanks.

You made these numbers without the methanol/water injection right?

Correct. I always lost alittle hp with my water meth inj.

What's your typical intake temps on the pfc commander?

I don't really know for sure, I haven't been watching them, I just watch the Coolant temps and AFRs most of the time, and boost gauge. The intake temps are low, especially since it's cold out now, so that's why I haven't been watching them.

Good work. I should be getting my fd tunes and dynoed soon.

So I did a compression check just to see what it is, I've never done it before.

70 psi on the front rotor and 62 on the rear. I think that is really low. I've read it should be at least 85 psi, and another site says "115+ is like new, 100-115 is healthy, 90-100 is getting weak(1 year or less in most cases) below 90 could blow at any moment."

So I wonder how much more HP it would make with a fresh motor, or how much I am losing with the weak compression.

Its about 6 degrees here now. I was just out in my car, tires were breaking loose in 3rd gear, hitting 22 psi, Air intake temps at -3 C. But when its around 30-40 degrees the tires have been letting loose in 2nd gear and not so much in 3rd gear.

was this on 100 octane race gas? you're spinning those little stockers into oblivion

nice job :)

No, 93 octane

shoot I forgot to hold the throttle wide open, back down to the garage to test it again..

78 front rotor, 74 rear rotor this time with the throttle open

The car was warmed up and drivin before the first test. 2nd test was done like ten or 15 mins later

Okay so that was the numbers in the upper trailing spark plug holes, the one website says "Remove the front and rear trailing side spark plugs."

So I did the compression check in the lower leading spark plug holes and got the correct numbers.

90 psi in the front rotor, 80 in the rear. battery voltage was still good at 11.7 volts. So I guess my compression is not too too bad, but definately on the weak side.

So how much weaker is my motor with this somewhat weak compression?

That's not bad. Run it till it blows. :)

Just a quick Question...

the line is very linear and smooth at the bottom end... and then the "squiggles" at the upper power band..

are they a sign of ignition break up? lack of ignition tuning? excess A/F?

You say you are using the base map in the PFC?

Have you or anyone else done anything to the PFC? Settings or Anything?

What fuel injectors?

too bad hes running fc coils with a jacobs 1000

And there doesnt feel like any ignition breakup. Its just the base ignition timing maps that I havent touched yet. I will make those changes to the trailing map to get 12 split, as shown above in this thread. I have made lots of changes to the fuel inj. map and the pim volt settings, And I have never used the datalogit.

When I datalog the AFR with my wideband, the graph has a nice smooth line that is straight, not bumpy. Check the link in my sig. for mods. 850s and 1600s injectors.

Impressive numbers, I've followed your other thread with the different slicks and gears you experimented with. What were your AFR's with the lower boost setting out of curiosity? I know you said 11.2 ish, but I wasn't sure if that included the low setting or not.

Ya its the same general AFR also at the lower boost setting, not much higher or lower, I watched it and it looked good. I always had it tuned good for all boost pressures that it sees, since it boost a little lower in the lower gears and since I turn down the boost sometimes.

I was just wondering cause the low boost numbers seemed low for non seq turbos, I think chuck westbrook made 350 @ 15 psi on stock ports.

Another thing I was looking at when comparing the graphs you posted, you averaged about 11HP increase per 1 psi increase in boost between low and high boost. Definitely a very decent increase. But comparing your sequential numbers to your non sequential numbers appears you gained no power advantage. While you picked up 30 hp you ran 3 extra psi. (10HP/PSI) And comparing your low boost non seq (16 psi) to your old seq run (18psi) you had 27 more hp with 2 extra psi (13.5/PSI) If you were to plot a graph and go with the average increase in boost/power your sequential turbos would be right there with, and possibly ahead of your non sequentials.

Granted there are variables such as engine, weather, turbos, etc but I would have still expected an increase going non seq. Like maybe your low boost 16 psi non sequential run putting down more power then the old 18 psi sequential run. Just something I was looking at and not sure if you noticed it too or not.

BTW I followed your other thread with the different tires and gearing, was very interesting. It's good to see people testing things out and pushing things.

arghx did you notice the stock basemap timing in the PFC? P20 is around 20 psi on the stock map by going off the offset/scale. (even though the map sensor only reads to about 17.5 psi) Anyway the IGL timing dips down to 3 degrees advance in the peak torque area, with a split of 4. Dangerous split, but very conservative timing for that boost. I would expect something more like 10 degrees advance at 20 psi with a 12 degree split. If Tom was to only change the split his power would probably go down with such a low advance.

It's kind of strange how the PFC timing is. I wonder if it's possible to run closer splits with more conservative timing, and what the effect and difference is on power/safety. What most of us do is run a higher IGL and then go with a bigger split to keep it safe. To me it seems that both ways are effectively doing the same thing just in different ways. But maybe this isnt the right place for this discussion, so later ill start a thread in the PFC section about it.

I was thinking maybe mine isn't making as much power because of low compression?

I have also thought that it seems the only power advantage was from the extra boost. The low boost non-seq. graph is weird cause the power curve is different than the others, it may not be right, maybe the boost controller didn't work right or something, it was the first pull on the dyno, perhaps another pull would have been different at that boost level. And I didn't watch the boost gauge, I think it's possible it may have only been at 14-15 psi at the max power shown on the graph, cause max boost should have been at around 5500-6k rpms and then it always falls off like 2 psi, cause it always has a boost spike when the boost hits, and it said max boost was 16.

comparing the low boost non seq to the old seq run, I think it was probably more like 2.5 psi difference, but again I should have done two pulls on the dyno at that low boost. My boost controller acts funny sometimes during the first pull, like I have to toggle it between low and high at least once after starting the car or else it will limit the boost for some odd reason, I did that before the dyno pull but it's just weird that power curve is so much different than the higher boost settings.