Track Tires? Expert Help Needed
 

Thought I'd throw this out to the track experts - What do you feel is the best tire for the track? Not drag racing, but tracking (Road Atlanta, VIR) and some occasional auto crossing. Would like to drive to the track in these.

What say you?

Yokohama A048 and Toyo R888 are both good options if you plan to drive to and from the track.

Just a warning if you plan to run 285/30/18's.....they do not absorb bumps too well on the street :lol:

Thanks for the info. Running 335/30/18s on the rear. Think those will far better over bumps? :)

All track tires have really stiff sidewalls, so the shorter the are the more it's exacerbated. 335/30's will be a bit better than 285/30's. The Toyos are probably a good choice if you're going to drive to and from the track, but ALL track tires suffer from heat cycling eventually, so if you street drive them you'll diminish the performance a bit.

Don't buy Hoosiers until you're ready to buy nothing else. Have fun!

^ Thanks for the info Peter. Am thinking of trying to pick up a tire sponsor but just don't know what to ask for.

As a street car that will see occasional track use, thought it might be a good thing to have a set of track tires to slap on the car for track use and then to switch back to the Michelins for daily driving.

About how long would a set of track tires last, assuming I'm not driving at the level you guys do?

For a street tire that is good on the track, I would go with something like the Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec, Kumho XS, Nitto NT05, etc... This is a tire that will be fine for your car (limited driving on the street). The dunlops don't come in the size you need, but the other two I suggested do. I just picked up some Kumho VS12's for my C5Z. It's not quite as aggressive as above, but I'll do some AutoX's and a few laps on the track and it'll be fine.

Also, look into moving increasing your front tire size. If I remember correctly, you had like 245's in the front with 335's in the rear. 285's would probably get you more in the ball park. Otherwise, you are just going to push like crazy.

R comps such as the A048 and R888 will last 3-6k miles however they will probably heat cycle out sooner.

Much debate to be had if anyone can even get them hot enough on the street to consider it a heat cycle. From experience, A048's will go 20+ heat cycles and I've read/heard the Toyo R888's do not diminish as much performance like the A048's do.

A second set of street wheels is the perfect solution. When race day comes, swap on the R comps and go drive to the track.

Thanks for all the help guys. I think I need to be more clear: I am going to keep the Michelin PS2s for the street and then swap out to a track tire for events. Wanted to be able to slap these on here in Asheville, drive to said event, then back to Asheville where I will swap them out for the Michelins. So the only "street" driving on the track tires will be to and from the track.

Brent, the front size is 245 on a 9.5 inch rim. Do you think a 285 will fit for track events? I first tried 255s but they rubbed. I then went to a spacer so maybe something large will fit? Dunno.

If your backspace is ~50 it won't rub. I've ran 17x10 and 18x10 CCW classics with 285's with no front fender/suspension modifications for many years.

I run star specs on my wrx.

If you aren't driving at their level why do you need a set of dedicated track tires? Why not use high performance street tires as Brent suggested? The first question to ask is what track experience do you have? One track day and you're already in need of dedicated track tires? Why not learn to drive the car to its limit with a street tire then consider something more aggressive?

^ I really hope that someday the forum will get back to civility. In that spirit I will ignore the above and carry on.

It would be helpful to read the question and comments though before posting like the above. The general consensus here already is to go with R compound tires like the Toyos or Yokohamas. The question is based on my desire to save my ubber expensive Michilen PS2s and to replace them with tires for occasional track use. Seems like a winning idea.

Thanks to the experts for the advice. I am just getting into the track scene so I am learning as I go. I think other green or blue drivers will appreciate the info as well.

Depending on skill level, I'd probably go for the Toyo RA1 over the Star Specs. If you are new to track driving, then something like the Michelin you are running is a good option and so is the Star Spec for a dual purpose tire.

The RA1 has higher limits and more grip than the Star Specs which means you need to push harder to learn the limits and get a feel for driving at the limits. Both the RA1 and Star Spec are forgiving and communicative at the limits. Both wear well. The RA1 will deal with heat cycles better than the Star Spec and other similar tires. The R888 aren't as forgiving as the RA1.

Hope that helps round out the great info contributed above.

I like driving on Star Specs for our Subaru race car. We are limited to 190 treadwear or higher in our series.

We can get about 20 hours or track time from one set and we have a fairly mixed bag of driver skill level.

I was just getting set to order a set for my (street) FD.



Jim

I guess that's what I get for trying to help you lol.

^ I am all for actual help. If you have other motives for posting, then just don't. Thanks.

If you are looking for mild R-compound tires (R888 A048 NT01 ect) then you should definitely consider the Hankook TD. It has been getting excellent reviews on other boards and looks to be faster than the tires listed above with better wear as well. They have 285/30 18s and 295/30 18s too.

Everyone has lots of info on tires and their pros on cons but ultimately, your going to be the only one that can decide which tire best suits your needs. I mean until you get a sponsor that is.

Thanks for all the help guys. I am trying to learn what works and doesn't before hitting up anyone for a sponsorship.

It sounds like you have potential and you are not scared to ask questions and thats a great start bro.

Dan's suggestion is a good one for a few reasons. I don't recommend using R Compound tires until you have probably 10 full weekends of HPDE's under your belt. I feel like that is a pretty standard recommendation across the board. The point is for you to build the fundamental skills of performance driving. Having a better tire takes away from the experience due to a better tire provides more grip. It's harder to find the limit. It essentially will mask your mistakes. It will give you a false security on track. It lets you get away with things that you should be learning about your car's handling and how you should react to it. Street tires will last longer and be cheaper Street tires will last significantly longer than R Compound tires as well. I ran something like 20 HPDE days on a set of Star Specs in 2009. I then sold them with around 60% tread on them. They still had plenty of grip.

Ultimately, it boils down to do you want to be a little faster today... or alot faster in the long run. "Give the man a fish, feed him for the day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime."

I'd definitely recommend starting out with a high performance street tire.

Starting off with too much tire (r-comps) has a bad tendency to mask bad habits.

the problem is most of the decent ones don't come in the size you'd be looking for. Your best bet is probably a set of Kumho XSs.

And this is 100% the reason why you should choose a nice sticky street tire.

Yoko AD08 or Dunlop Star Spec are my recommendation, pending that they carry your tire size.

It would be a mistake to jump right to R-comps given the number of track days you have attended.

Dan's post contained some very good advice, and seemed to be civil enough to me. You're getting advice from many experts, what you do with that advice is up to you :icon_tup:

go with the tires you have now to get a grip of the track driving experience and dont run too many laps as they will over heat. wear ur tires out :)
Brent and Dan are right
u need to push the car and thats the only way you will learn its limits. Once your lap times are very consistent with each other then move to a stickier tire (something more of a street performance)

David,
I think you took Dan's suggestion the wrong way.But this is the right way to start.
I personally too suggest the Z1 even though i didnt run it that much.
I hear the best of the ad08s but i havent tried them myself

i have toyo R888 on my car now.. They can be quite dangerous on the street as they take some time to warm up. Once they are warm they are pretty nice and pretty good on the track

\\
Nope, don''t think I took it the wrong way. The advice isn't bad and as Dan pointed out, had already been offered by others so why restate it and then add in the between the lines stuff? This is what I am speaking of Rich per our recent communications. For more, look at some of my recent posts and then the comments that follow.

It's frustrating to even have to respond to any of this as this thread was started to seek advice on a set of tires that could be used instead of the PS2s on the track. At $450 for the front tires and over $500 for the each rear, I was wondering of there was a better option to put on for track use. I saw some good heat cycling on the PS2s and it took about 300 miles for the gravel to work its way out of the tires on the way home from VIR.

I agree that as a newbie, I need to learn first how to drive and then move on up as I gain experience. So for now, what should I use? Let's assume the PS2s are out due to cost. If so, what are the best options?

Brent has given several good recommendations and so have others. This gives me a good basis of which to begin research. If anyone else has options, I am all ears.

Thank you.

I'd recommend giving the Kumho XS a shot. They're relatively cheap (i'm sure less than the PS2s) and very sticky street tires.

Just make sure you make a quality choice, as they say you've gotta pay if you wanna pay :D

What are your rim sizes and offsets?
Rolled fenders in front?

Will you be swapping a set of tires on the same rims or are you going to be getting different rims? I do not understand how it would make financial sence to pay someone to mount an balance a different set of tires every track day ( and risk damage to those expensive wheels). Because if you do many track days then it would be very expensive (swapping every time) and if you do not do many then it would be a waste to spend money on a set of tires that will not get used and will probably dry rot before they wear out.

The other solution (IMHO the best) would be wear out the PS2's and then switch to a cheaper tire for your street/track driving. Problem solved.

I think you are over thinking. I would definitely listen to Brent as he makes very good points use good street tires for the track, once you have consistent times then switch to something more sticky.


I also do think Dans post was civil, he asked good questions and brought up good points. If I made a thread asking this question I would expect a response from him just like that, in fact I think when I asked him about tires the last tack day I went to with him he told me just that:lol:.

^I thought he just told you to 'ask Rich' :rofl:

^ Both of you know how I feel on the issue. I pm'd you about discord on the forum a few weeks ago and remain available to speak if you'd like.

How about a compromise? Delete the comments that have taken the thread off track. Leave Dan's comment but delete "The first question to ask is what track experience do you have? One track day and you're already in need of dedicated track tires?". Okay?

8.5X18 front +6.5 offset, 12.5X18 rears +7.5 offset
Rolled fenders on the front

Hadn't really thought through the details of this, was trying to get the basics first. I've got a local tire company right down the road from me that has offered to store the tires for me and to mount them and swap as needed.

The idea of having separate rims is appealing though and will look into this as well.

David,

Will you track your RX-7 or are these tires for another car?

No, not okay. The thread is fine just as it is..... let the mods decide what should and shouldn't be deleted. You are not a mod on this forum, sorry :)

This is a public forum, and people are offering you help in a civil fashion. As to why you're manufacturing drama, I have NO idea.

At any rate, with your rim sizes you're kind of limited on tire sizes. Maybe look into some more 'tame' wheel sizes. But then you'll have to deal with your rear fender flares.

Have you read up on the Kumho XS yet? Probably your best choice IMO.

For my car.

I haven't manufactured any drama here Rich. Just responded to one particular comment that I believe was not meant to be constructive and now this.

As the OP, I feel my perception of the comment is important, and as such, don't feel it is appropriate nor adds to the thread. The comment and then resulting replies simply continue to distract from a very simple question about tires and a thread that was going well. And if you believe I am manufacturing drama, please look at past posts and interactions and see if any of the posts are constructive. Enough is enough. Most of what Dan posted is just fine, it's just that one sentence that isn't and was meant IMO not to be constructive.

And I thought you and RenesisFD were mods, hence the ask. If you are not a mod for this section, then I'm asking the mods in charge to clean up the thread, you know, like you did with the Carlisi thread? Thanks for the equal consideration.

Now back to tires. The end result here is I have gotten some pretty good advice and I appreciate it. For newbies, the consensus is to use a street high performance tire like my PS2 and then when driving mechanics improve, to go to something more sticky.

As for me, and as Rich points out, my options are very limited due to rear wheel tire size. The Toyo Proxes R888 are the only other option it appears outside of the PS2s that would fit and save any money. The Kumos don't come in my size.

In any event, thanks again for the tire advice.

David not trying to thread jack this, but since the thread has seemed to turn into using a more aggressive street tire first I thought I would ask.


Has anyone ran/running the Bridgestone RE-11's as either their street tire or track tire or a combo of both. As in, a few uses at the track but mainly street tires....? I was reading a thread from a while back where Renton I believe mentioned about 4 or 5 tires that could be ran reliably on the street with occasional track use. The star specs and RE-11's were 2 of them.

^ No problems. Wanted this to be a helpful thread to all.

Regardless of the interpretation of the message, you should definitely be taking the high performance street tire advice.

How often do you plan on tracking your car David? Are we talking once a year or 10 times a year?

If you're just looking to continue dipping your toe in the track-water and will only do 1-2 days a year then I'd leave the PS2s and just deal with the decreased tread life. You may chunk them if you get fast enough, but it shouldn't be a primary concern.

If you're going to get into it more regularly, then I'd buy a set of dedicated track wheels (track pads destroy wheels anyway) and tires. You can then buy a more sensible size for the rear, and a bigger front in order to try to even the stagger front/rear. If you continue to track your car with almost a 100mm width difference between front and rear you're going to push so bad it won't matter what you've got on there. When you buy the new wheels, you can then get a nice high-performance street tire to put on them and then enjoy tracking them until they cord.

^ Good advice and thanks. My issue had not been with the street tire advice and that is the way I am going to go.

Would like to start getting out 4-6 times per year and go from there, depending if I like it and catch the "track bug" so to speak. I've got a great resource down my way that has offered to take me out for instruction. He's an FD guy that does Porsche and BMW instruction.

I also like the idea of getting a separate set of rims for track days. Am looking into that now.

For the time being, I'll just drive what I have and then see where my research and thoughts go.

Sounds like you can probably do another day on the PS2s without doing too much damage, just make sure you don't throttle up that 20b too crazy.

Dedicated track wheels/tires even if you're driving to the track on them is the way to go eventually.

Have you tried going to Tires at Tire Rack?? If you are willing to spend some time, it's full of great info on exactly what this thread is all about. You can search by the size you want and they give endless reviews/specs/ - Tirerack does their own and consumers who bought that specific tire write up their personal experience. Tire They even tell you car the make/type and where they live (to give you a general idea of the weather they encounter).

That is a great idea and yes I've done it. The reviews and articles are really good. Thanks.

I was thinking that since you have 3 piece wheels you can just change the rear barrel in the fronts to a wider size and therefore be able to fit a wider tire on the front to help even out your stagger. That is a cheap solution that will benefit you even on the street, with a wider tire you will be able to stop faster under all conditions.

You contradicted yourself above, do you have 9.5" wide or 8.5" wide front rims? Due to you running only a 245 I am assuming you meant 8.5. In which case you have plenty of room for a wider barrel.