s366 or s372 BW turbo?
 

Im looking at getting one of these turbos. im trying to reach the 500-600hp mark at between 15-20psi. Im looking for advice on AR size and opinions on these two. I have searched and read many post and on the S366 turbo but not many on the s372. I have an s4 large street ported motor.

Thank You,
Jose

72 if you dont want a shitload of boost. get a housing around 1.00. i dont remember the exact sizes they offer on that turbine housing. let me know if you need to buy one of those turbos. ill help you out.

A S366 with a 1.10 a/r on a dual scroll manifold with twin wastegates made close to 490ish @18psi on a mustang dyno with water injection on a Gotham Stage 3 port.

If you want a sure bet to break 500-600rwhp under 20psi go with the S372.

so i take it that the s372 is not capable of alot of boost? im really trying to make it streetable with full boost by 4000rpms. im going to get a divided manifold and get a custom 4inch exhaust to help. i was told to get a .83AR housing, but i thought that was awfully low considering my large street port.

**dregg** im def looking into buying of those turbos

yeah the .83 A/R will choke it up top, especially with the higher boost levels you will need to get 500- 600 hp. stay with the 1.+ divided T4. For the high hp you want you will definitely be closer to 20+ psi then to 15.

The s372 is more then capable of ALOT of boost. it will actually handle higher boost levels better then the s366. But it will also make more power at lower boost levels, at the expense of increased lag.

I don't think the s372 will make full boost by 4000. The s366 might depending on your porting, exhaust, and tuning. Both are big turbos though so full boost by 4000 rpm might be asking a bit much. At least they are BB though that helps.

I would say go with a BW372. The S400 small frame coupled with a 72mm comp wheel and 83mm turbine flow pretty good. Its the same turbo as a GT4202. The GT4202 though does have a better turbine side.

so im really confused now, im told 83AR will choke up and now being told it will flow good. im looking at getting this guy within a few weeks. this is misleading.

Some people need to use better terminology... It means it will spool quickly (flow good), yet at 28-30lbs boost it will become restrictive (choke up top). I would really go with the s366 as you can readily spool up and still make 600whp. Most people can kill themselves with 400whp, so trust me that the 600whp will be one hell of a kick in the pants. Coupled with a good driver and the other "necessary" mods you should be able to run 10's.

i do not plan on running 30psi, maybe 25 on the track. my main goal is to produce great power on lower amounts of boost, have a good spool time and have a turbo that still breaths at higher rpms. if the .83AR housing will get me there, great!!! but why are ppl running 1.XXAR on roughly the same size turbos?

So they can run higher boost levels. Stick with the s366 as it will spool up faster and have full boost before 4k. You'll also never hit the "choke" on it ;).

you cant have everything. at some point you make a sacrifice. a 600 hp13b rotary doesnt spool intstantly. it takes a big turbo and high boost to get that kind of power. You will make more power on the larger A/R. it's just like running a bigger exhaust, there is less back pressure and more overall HP to be made. The smaller the A/R the more restriction there is but more pressure on the the exhaust blades to get the turbo moving. Small A/R: {x] Big A/R: [ X } <--- see how much more air can flow through?

Whether you run low boost or high boost you will still make more peak power with the larger A/R. The Higher boost you run, the more of a difference you will notice in power on the top end. You can feel it, like its just not pulling as much in the upper RPM's.

Those big turbos will take alot of exhaust to get moving. I really doubt you will have full boost on the BW372 by 4000 rpms. But you will make more power at lower boost levels with it. So this is where you have to make choice number 1. do you want to get more HP at a lower boost at a later time in the rpms? Or would you rather the turbo spooled faster but you required a higher PSI?

Picking the A/R is the same way. Do you want faster boost or more power?
For the amount of power you want i would not go below .96 a/r. But .96 isnt divided so you might as well go with a 1.06 divided or something. Provided you are running a divided manifold.

The comment you last made is an oxymoron. It's like saying i want to be tall and short. You cant have everything, you have to choose. Everyone wants a big turbo that instantly spools and never runs out of air. But that turbo doesnt exist.

My opinion is get the smaller turbo, make full use of your meth kit. Get a 1.06 or whatever exhaust a/r and plan on running close to 20 psi or more.

If you want something in the middle, go with the big BW366 with the larger 81mm turbine wheel and .91A/R with the T4. You can get them for less then a 1000 bucks.

Thanks to everyone so far on the input!

im definetly aware of this, hence why im trying to decide between these two turbos and what AR to get. i have seen good dyno results with the s366 but not too much informations on the s372. Im looking for a good spooling turbo around 4000-5000rpm, i just had a poor choice of words earlier, my apologies. I would like to stay out of +20Psi territory.

Only place i have seen these turbos are on the paradise racing website, where else can i find them with different options?

Im going to get the divided housing and tubular manifold and 4 inch exhaust to help with the spool and power. I want to atleast be able to make the 500hwhp within the 15-20psi boost range.

[QUOTE=Dudemaaanownsanrx7;8659582]you cant have everything.

I'm pretty sure the 366 will get you to the 500+ hp range between 15- 20 psi while spooling faster, But definately if you're willing to sacrifice spool speed for power at a lower boost level then go with the larger turbo. I just see the larger turbo as overkill and an unnecessary sacrifice in spool speed, but at the same time anything over 450 hp on a street car is also overkill.

If you're going to be using pump fuel and want 450+whp get some methanol injection. Make sure you use a good tuner for even 400whp.

[QUOTE=jsnow82;8660216]Thanks to everyone so far on the input!

im definetly aware of this, hence why im trying to decide between these two turbos and what AR to get. i have seen good dyno results with the s366 but not too much informations on the s372. Im looking for a good spooling turbo around 4000-5000rpm, i just had a poor choice of words earlier, my apologies. I would like to stay out of +20Psi territory.

Only place i have seen these turbos are on the paradise racing website, where else can i find them with different options?

Im going to get the divided housing and tubular manifold and 4 inch exhaust to help with the spool and power. I want to atleast be able to make the 500hwhp within the 15-20psi boost range.

Any of the diesel shops carry this unit that carry BW's. They are off the shelf units.

BW 372 is the way to go.

no its not ;) how do you expect to beat those high hp supras on the street? not no 450hp

Well 450 hp rx7 will beat 90 % of anything that most people will come across. There will always be something faster out there. But regardless my point is once you're looking at running that much power you might as well go with something thats more pleasant to tote around town in with faster spool and just plan on running higher boost. And a 500 - 600 hp rx7 isn't going to beat a 900 hp supra either. Which is also overkill on the street. Though i'm sure its fun until you start breaking stuff all the time

yea its certainly fun

Yeah, he already got bored of being in the 420 - 430 rwhp region after only about 4-5 months or so with his bnr stage 4....

ha, just a little bored. any more opinions on this matter? I really want to get one of these turbos within the next few weeks. AR size for both? im being told that .83AR will fit beautifully on those specific turbos. very confusing

well i spoke with luis at paradise racing and he suggested the s372 with .90AR, should have full spool between 4-5000RPMS and capable of producing the power i want. Any objections??

I do.
Go full bridgeport and size the turbo accordingly, lol. That way you will have lots more torque across the entire powerband, well, except for light throttle below 2000 rpms or so.

:wallbash:

jsnow82, what manifold are you using?

I believe he is still trying to decide on that one. I know he wants a divided one though.

yea, i have yet to decide on one yet or i just may design on my own. i should be ordering my turbo tomorrow tho, so thats my first step! they are very expensive, almost as much as the turbo!

hey, got that block out yet to get pinned? :)

idk.......a goal of 500rwhp on a series 4 block (well, series 5 front and rear plates) unpinned......that's kinda sketchy in my opinion. But that's just me :icon_tup:

pics of his S372 from yesterday. It has the race cover and a .90 divided turbine housing.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...o/IMG_2641.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...o/IMG_2642.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...o/IMG_2643.jpg


(since he never posts, I'll speak for him :lol: )
He is still trying to figure out what divided manifold to use because he wants to make sure that the turbo will clear the lower intake mani. Because of the fact of how much the turbo alone set him back money-wise, 1 of his options he is considering so far is to buy the HKS divided cast manifold made for the 3rd gen. IDK, maybe he'll consider a tubular mani if it's the only thing that will really work for this setup, just as long as it doesn't break the bank, aka: $650+

Borg Warner turbo's really don't cost a lot. My Garrett 42r set me back 3 grand! I hate when people try to minimize costs when it comes to cars. If you don't have the wallet or the mental power to save money for a month then building a car isn't for you.

Anyway, the cast manifold is a really short runner manifold and will likely put the turbine housing into the passenger strut tower. I had a tubular manifold on my last BW turbo and it still hit the passenger strut tower. You're going to have to spend money on a manifold that's GOING TO FIT. Being cheap cost's more in the long run and rushing things takes more time. Research with some known vendors to get a manifold that will fit your setup and then pay for their properly priced manifold because they spent time to develop it to fit.

Not sure what chassis you're working with but the FD HKS manifold will not work. I've test fitted a 374 w/ race cover and the turbo fits great with the engine on the stand. But once it's in the car the turbine and compressor housings hit the body in a big way.

lol I dont mind spending the money for something that WILL work! I would just hate to spend $1000 knowing the $400 will work. FUNCTION over LOOKS for me! I know I may be spending the $1000 anyways and still have to get an exhaust made, another $1000 or more for a 4 or 5inch custom exhaust. On another note, THIS turbo is huge, its a very nice turbo and should hopefully put me where i want to be. Thanks Brian for posting up the pictures. I have a 2nd gen chassis with the s4 block.

Any suggestions on a manifold that will fit?

Thanks for everyones opinions, and mono4lamar I completely agree with you, I have just already spent alot of money this year with buying a turbo, setup and not being completely happy and then rebuilding halfway this year again because of boost spike! Its been a rough but very fun road so far.

I know I come off as a negative Nancy sometimes it's just sometimes you have repeated questions. LMK if you want me to weld up the 4" turbo back (where in PA are you). I'll upload pictures of my setup if you want. Anyway, spend the good money and you'll likely never run into problems. Just do the research don't let too many people point to the direction... It's your car!

Repetition is a way of getting to the point sometimes man, ppl seem to forget the point of ? after only a few replies. I do alot of research, read a lot and ask a lot. Im thinking of a 5inch exhaust for spool, what do you think? Will 4inches do the job? I found stainless steel 5 inch piping. Mono4lamar, if you dont mind, upload the pics, i want to see your setup. thank you

From what I gather you're not going to be drag racing it and you'll be street driving it. 4" will be plenty for you. I'm running the 4" turbo back on my 42r setup and I'm very happy with it. I'll get pictures as soon as I get a car off my lift.

I found a couple pictures of my down-pipe on my other laptop. They're just pictures of it tacked up but you get the idea... Oh and ignore the custom upper intake manifold in the background ;)

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/DSC01480.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/DSC01482.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/DSC01483.jpg

looks very nice man. how much will you charge for the complete turbo back? I think I may be doing the 4inch stainless.

Pricing would depend on the midpipe muffler (if you want one) and the muffler at the end. I would still need to see the underside of the car to see how many bends are involved. I have an idea in mind but we need to discuss it further. Shoot me a pm when you're ready :)

Just because you spent 3K on a GT42 does not mean it's a better turbo than a $1000 unit. Some of the fastest cars are the guys that spend their money wisely. Couple that with a little experience and some technical knowledge and that handy miser will go much faster than the ones that spend the top dollar. In a number of tests done the Borg Warner/Bullseye journal bearing turbos out-perform the Garrett dual ball bearings units which are twice the price. A lot of guys that jumped on the GT42R bandwagon are definitely now regretting it.

Anthony

just read the thread and want to give kudos to post 11.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7 has written on of the best posts on the board about making the difficult choice between items that aren't mutually inclusive.

and yes, you can pick something in the middle but you can't have tall and short.

:)

hc

Very skeptical on what bullseye promotes as far as numbers, I have seen first hand that side by side what they claim a lot of times simply isn't the full story and disingenuos at best. I am not knocking BW turbos in any way, nor am I endorsing garrett.

The single biggest benefit to a BW turbo to the average guy is two things, cost is less when buying off shelf stuff, and you have a nice selection of wheel combinations for the average guy to choose from. Whereas for the consumer, garrett pretty much gives you their idea of best ie 42R for garret 82mm turbine wheel and BW S400 you can select 83,87,96mm turbine wheel.

For the consumer that is fine, in my position (and other members on here I'm sure) it makes no difference, I can get wheel combos I want for garrett as well in most cases. Most of the time though it isn't needed as the wheels are paired nicely.

What I don't like about BW, if I have to have any complaint, is that you're stuck with the overweight one piece backplate/CHRA.


~S~

Agreed, I deal with it everyday.

I would say only that this point here.....

Can have a smaller A/r and run a larger exducer bore and still get a bit of both. The idea is to spray the "pinwheel" with air and have it exit as swiftly as possible, too large a A/r and air doesn't hit the "pinwheel" directly and exit so quickly, you lose out and only create lazy response.

I would prefer a .X A/r with 79mm exducer bore over the same .X A/r with a 74mm exducer bore, before stepping up the A/r on the 74mm wheel. I've seen it keep response and gain power, where as stepping up gained power but lost some response.

Truth is this is all way too much thought for a car to just drive around in on the street. 450+whp FD on the street is a blast, and most wont notice differences of a few hundred RPM from one turbo to the next, because most cars are set up so different form each other you can't compare the turbos themselves fairly.

~S~

I think Garrett is by far the best units made still. I also agree, the two peice design is much better then a 1 piece design from BW. The S400's do have quite a few turbines to choose from. The 90mm turbine wheel also is a KILLER piece on the rotary for the money and I didn't see it mentioned. The 96mm turbine is a little to laggy for my taste and that 90 fills in the gap quite nicely. Also Bullseye is a marketing hype. They claim overrated #'s for their turbos and most of those units are direct from Borg Warner, and Borg Warner doesn't even rate them that high :lol: . To many of them have blown up on the dyno with very few passes as well, so Borg Warner due to Bullseye's marketing has lost some fans. Best thing to do is buy box units from a diesel shop. They are all available to the public as off the shelf units anyway without all the price jacking...all you need is the part #. If you need a BW part # let me know, I got my hands on a full spreadsheet with all the BW's..or at least most. The prices are ALOT cheaper when buying from a diesel shop.

I would personally love to see a GT45R-74mm unit. 87mm turbine with DBB the tried and true GT42 comp wheel. Would make for a heck of a turbo.

Anthony, you're preaching to the choir here. I was just using the dollar for an example for how costly this "game" is. If you were up to date on my situation you would know that my 42r from Garrett is BLOWN! My last turbo was a s362 and I loved every minute of it. I should have gone with the Borg Warner s374 but I wanted something water cooled. I'll never purchase another Garrett turbo in my life.

Ill let you guys know how the turbo runs when i get it on the car and tuned.......you cant judge a turbo from one or two mishaps, Borg Warner makes OE turbos that perform as well as last, now they're in the sport compact market being marketed by Bullseye. We will see what it can do, but only time will tell. Thank you guys so much!!!

As far as midpipe and mufflers, what do you guys suggest for sound quality and reliability. I have always been a fan of the racing beat sound but I know that I will probably not be able to get that sound again.

If you're doing a 4" exhaust you don't have a lot of choices. I'm running a Borla XR1 as my muffler (pretty expensive) and a Dynomax Ultra Flow muffler in the midpipe. I really love the sound it makes. I'll try to post up a video so you can get an idea...

cool man, thank you. will one muffler be alright? or will it just be too loud?