My T04R FC: Changes/Updates for 2008
 

After some requests, and in an effort to keep others informed...I decided that I want to show some progress/changes that I've made over the winter.

I'll try to update this thread as much as I can and flood it with some Eye Candy for everyone, so check back soon for updates. So, bear with me as I have pictures scattered amongst 2 or 3 computers.

Last summer, after a mishap on the dyno (story and names will NOT be discussed in order to prevent rumors) resulted in a cracked front plate; I decided that I wanted to build the motor myself this time, as I like to do most of the work and I only trust a very limited number of people to work on my car. While the motor was out, I wanted to make some changes to take precaution and hopefully to prevent mishaps in the future.

On to the changes...

Motor Build - New S5 Turbo front plate (obviously) and I used almost everything that I had from the previous build since it was all still new. I did replace an S4 Turbo housing with an S5 one. I no longer have mismatched rotor housings. Replaced the RA 2mm seals with Atkins. Replaced the RA Teflon O-Rings, and this time I used all ALL Mazda OEM soft seals/O-rings.

Just after pulling the motor. Began cleaning things up and started removing old wiring.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...DSCF0036-1.jpg

Notice the Difference in the 2 housings. S5T on left, S4T on right
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...DSCF0031-1.jpg

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http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...7/DSCF0059.jpg

Sold my Haltech E6X and replaced with an E8 unit. Thanks to my my buddy Ron (Fishey) for helping with the wiring and teaching me to solder correctly. :) I removed the dash to take out the Heater Core, Blower Motor, etc..and did some cleanup behind the dash. This gave me plenty of room to do a nice, clean install of the Haltech. I didn't want to see any wiring in the Engine Bay, so we had to get creative.

Just after removing the dash and components. Started diving into the wiring to get things cleaned up/organized.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...7/DSCF0033.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...7/DSCF0031.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...DSCF0029-1.jpg

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http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...7/DSCF0041.jpg

Thinking that the stock coils and an MSD wouldn't be enough for my needs, I decided to run a custom coil setup. I also wanted to run a Direct Fire Sequential setup. So, I did some research on which coils would suffice, and took a recommendation to pursue these BMEP IGN-1A's. They will supposedly light anything you can throw at them. I made up a bracket and used some hardware to create a nice little setup. I contacted Magnecor and had them make me a set of R100 10mm wires for my setup.


http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...DSCF0035-1.jpg

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http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...7/100_0499.jpg


Decided to run dual solenoids to control my dual wastegate setup, instead of 1 solenoid controlling both. Having 1 per WG is the proper way to do it, so I fabbed up a bracket and this is what I came up with.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...7/DSCF0048.jpg

Here are a few pics from re-routing the fuel lines.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...DSCF0048-2.jpg

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Here is an overall shot of the Bay as of November 2007:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...7/DSCF0029.jpg

Latest shot of the engine bay.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...DSCF0033-1.jpg

It's a bit dirty from the work that was just performed. So don't mind it... :)

I just finished reinstalling the manifold, DP, etc. I had 2 EGT bungs welded onto the manifold to aid in a better tune this time around.

Notice a the changes/upgrades:
-Individual Coils w/ Custom Plug wires
-Eliminated ABS, and ran New Factory Non-ABS brake lines
-929 Master Cylinder
-Dual Boost Controller Solenoids - 1 per WG
-Heat shielding around LIM, and Oil Return Line
-Jazz Coolant Catch Can
-Jazz Vented Oil Catch Can (Can't be seen in this pic)
-Re-Routed Braided Fuel lines
-4" Intake Elbow on Turbo (test fitting the cheap filter for size, will order K&N shortly.

Pics of the new bumper and hood will be up soon. Just trying to work out a few issues on the hood.

I'm hoping this year goes a bit better for me.

Stay tuned for more updates... 8)

Looks good. :)

NICE !!!!!!!! good job.

damn looks good i love the wiring for the injectors and everything where did you get that black mesh wire covering?

Beautiful work :icon_tup:

Can't wait to see it strap at the dyno :)

Its standard on the new halltechs (I believe); however you can get it from:
http://cableorganizer.com/wire-management/

Thanks, guys!


Got it from www.partsexpress.com

It's called Techflex.

Very nice! Great quality pics too!!

Looks top notch!

Any more info on those coils? Are you going to run an amp on them at all?

You have a beautiful FC, I'm sure your very proud. Us single turbo FC guys gotta stick together lol

pst howd you route the heater lines:)

Thanks! It's been a long work in progress, so hopefully all the hard work with pay off this time.

Coils are IGN-1A's from BMEP Fuel & Tuning. A lot of people over on the EFI forums rave about them and they are supposed to light anything you can throw at them.
No amp is needed on the 1A's.

http://www.bmepfuelandtuning.com/index.html

As far as how well they work for our setups, I think I'm a pioneer in that regard. I'll be on the Dyno on the 12th, so I'll be able to give you a better answer after that.

Who needs a heater? :)

This is very interesting!!!! What do you have your dwell time set to?

Keep us posted please.

In talking with the owner of BMEP, he told me to set them at 3.0ms. He said that should be fine for what I need.

I'm running them in Direct Fire Sequential mode, along with Sequential Injection. I'm hoping for the best!

looking great man, i just gotta ask... why did you switch to Atkins seals? not saying it's a bad move (not a fan of the RA's), but why not OEM? :D

again can't wait to see this thing in action!

I chose the Atkins over OEM due to the success stories that many High HP rotaries have had with them.

haha thats my question! Did you cap the lines off the block and pipe off th rad?

you're gonna love the e8.
what coils are those?

edit: i missed the post. those look pretty sweet.

also, i love the haltech install under the dash.

the normal atkins seals or the cryo'd? either way i am not trying to say they are bad.. you are right a lot of people have had success with them :) it's going to be fun nonetheless!!!!!!!!

:icon_tup:

Yep, pumped some black RTV silicone into them (2 on rear plate, and 2 nipples on WP housing) and capped them and also the one on the lower radiator outlet.

I've been told that the caps can sometimes deteriorate and split anyway, so I might be running a silicone loop line from the rear plate to the top of the WP housing like I had before, just in case.


Just the normal atkins 2mm 2 piece. I believe ErnieT is using them in his motor, or at least he was. I'll be no where near his HP. :)

Thanks! I am pretty happy with the way it turned out. There is a TON of room under there after the components and wiring have been cleaned out.

I see that you're in Louisville.

I'll be bringing down the car to C.Ludwig on Saturday, the 5th. He'll have it through the week to do the small detailed tuning, and then I'm coming back down on the 12th, and he'll be dyno tuning that day.

Feel free to come check it out. I'm always up for meeting some new people.

very impressive work. you should be quite proud.

Nice!

Here is an update for everyone.

The last week and a half was probably the craziest that I've had in a long time.
The dyno tuning date was set for April 12th. My buddy (Fishey) and I drove down to meet Chris Ludwig at Automotion in downtown Louisville. Let me preface the rest by saying that the folks at Automotion are very professional and friendly. It was a breath of fresh air to be working with people that were not only car enthusiasts, but genuine people as well. I can see why Chris has developed a good relationship with them.

At about 8:30 am, the car was strapped to the dyno and Chris began to work on the steady state tuning. Everything went very smoothly for about 2 hours as Chris worked his way up through the different load and rpm ranges. Shortly after, I heard the car shut off, and I saw Chris getting out of the car so I came over to find that oil was everywhere, and I then see the cause. The oil filter pedestal had broke in half! Turns out that the pedestal that I had purchased in a GB a couple years ago was a 2-piece design made by "MRC Manufacturing". Turns out that this design had been recalled due to a reported "failure"(hmm, wonder what that was), and urged people to send them back in for an upgrade to the now produced 1-piece design. After inspecting the piece, it was indeed a really shitty design, and the manufacturer and designers should be embarrassed to produce that kind of quality on something considered to be a critical element. So at the time, I was out the time and money spent for the trip down, and incurred a "dyno cleanup fee" for dumping oil all over the dyno (THANKS MRC!)

So we called it a day until I could get another oil pedestal. We re-scheduled dyno time for 8:30am on the following Friday, the 18th. During the week, Chris spent some time to drop the tranny to check the clutch/PP/flywheel for any oil that may have found its way through the inspection plate opening. I took the day off work on friday and made the trip back to Louisville on Thursday evening to replace the oil pedestal with a new unit, and help Chris get the tranny back in. We got everything buttoned back up, and without any leaks, we went out for some road tuning and to get the maps setup for doing boost pulls on the dyno the following morning.

We worked out way up, and eventually did about 10-12 boost pulls on the 11.5psi gate springs. Let me tell you that the car had never ran so smooth. Everything felt great while cruising and pulled very nicely doing the boost pulls that we did. The car was definitely ready to get into boost on the dyno. I was VERY excited and felt good about the following morning.

After we survived the 5.2 scale earthquake that rattled the house like crazy, we made our way to Automotion on Friday morning. The car was strapped down around 8:45, and after some laptop setup, Chris started the car to make the first boost pull. I backed away from the car, and Chris because going through the gears to eventually get into 4th. I sat down and plugged my ears to negate the effects of the dual 38mm wastegates dumped to the atmosphere. I was watching some of the gauges as the rpms climbed, then time pretty much stood still in my mind as I see a nice tall stream of oil shoot from the engine bay, and all over the car. Again, the car was immediately shut off, and my head drops immediately as I knew exactly what happened...

Yep. Another cracked front plate.

Aftter a 2 and a half hour ride home in a tow truck, and a few days to ponder, I'm still stuck wondering what in the world could have caused this. I thought that I had taken all the precautions/steps necessary to eliminate this from happening, but obviously that wasn't the case.

Boost was still on the gates, holding a steady 11psi, AFR's in the low 11's, temps and everything else...A-ok. What in the world caused it to detonate and crack my plate? Why was it fine the previous night, and not in the morning?

For those of you that don't know, this is the 3rd time that I've cracked a plate. 1 rear, and 2 fronts. I don't know what else to do, and I'm seriously considering selling it all, and stepping away from the scene. It definitely sounds like I need to take a hint.

I'll try to get some pictures up of the carnage.

Chris Ludwig, I cannot thank enough. He is an amazing tuner, and I appreciate all of his help and knowledge that he has passed to me. He took things very seriously on my car, and I could tell that he wanted everything to be correct. We are searching for the cause and hope to come up with something.


CLIFF NOTES:
Shitty designed Oil filter pedestal broke in half on the dyno, causing oil to go everywhere. Stopped tuning until we could get it replaced. Lost time and money in the process.

Following dyno session, for no rhyme or reason, front plate cracked on the very first pull. Low boost, 11psi, 11 AFR, temps Ok. No clue as to what happened. Looking for answers.

Might sell everything, and get away from the game.

Ouch, that sucks. I cracked an S5 T2 front plate last year on the way to the track. Definately not fun.

Wow man.

I feel your pain, I'm on engine number 5 in two years from having front rotor issues. Still for the life of me cannot figure out why I could boost 10-12psi for days, and pass something at 40%throttle 6psi 4K rpm and detonate. Absolute mystery........that I'm still trying to solve.

Wish I could offer some insight as to what you've got going on but I've never had a front OR rear plate crack myself. Only the apex seals are my issue.

Were there any datalogs from any of these pulls? What spark plugs were used?

Very sorry for your loss, I understand the pain :(

No log from the pull on the dyno. I think we have a few logs from the previous night on the road. Chris would have to chime in with those.

Plugs were new NGK BUR9EQ's. NGK 10.5's were going to be used for over 14psi, but didn't even get close.

That sucks! I can't imagine what I'd do...

joe! You've gone through 5 engines!!!? Who's been building these lol

I am very sorry to hear this:( These types of stories just want to push me away from turbo setups even more. But the cost of building a decent 20b NA is quite high. I hope your able to keep your head in there, decent rotary guys are few and far between. Are you able to salvage the motor at all, and only need a new front plate?

I haven't even started to tear anything apart yet. I had the wrenches in my had on saturday, but could only stare at the bay and coudn't bring myself to tear into it yet.

From the previous cracked front plate, the only thing needed was a new plate, porting, and new Corner Seal Springs from a few being flattened.

I would imagine it's just the same, but I'd probably replace apex seal springs as well, as well as some new side seals and springs. Other than that, I'd want to have everything balanced for security, and would probably get new OEM soft seals to keep things fresh.

I don't know...it keeps adding up in my mind, and it de-motivates me to do it again, only to be taking the same chance from not knowing what caused it.

Sorry to hear that, just the thought of it, makes me want to bail out too :(

...ls1?

Hell no... I'd just buy a domestic, but then I would have to shrink my penis and grow a mullet, and I don't think I could handle a mullet.... :)

Just throwing it out there...

supra?

are you sure your timing is set properly? Something has to be up here man. I've got an s4 motor with the weak irons and I'm pushing 19psi (race gas) no problem with a T04S. I've leaned the car out a gazillion times in my attempts at self-tuning and nothing's blown (yet. I know it'll happen). In fact I've also overheated the car and had a 20psi boost spike on stock turbo, audibly detonated it, and nothing's blown. Motor was built by Bruce Turrentine with RA super seals.

Where are you getting these irons?

Timing was spot on in relation to the Mazda Racing 6-rib pulley. This piece is one of the things in question at the moment. I need to verify the timing marks against the stock pulley.

The last motor was up to 20psi with no issues when it cracked the front plate last summer. The summer before that, 18psi on 110 leaded when it cracked the rear plate.

IF the timing was off, it would only be very minimal, as the car runs fine, starts fine, etc etc. It has only cracked plates in the upper RPM range at various loads and boost. If it was WAY off, the car would run crappy...

Rear plate - 18psi - 2nd gear - ~7200 rpm
1st front plate - 20 psi - 3rd gear - ~6800 rpm
2nd front plate - 11psi - 4th gear - ~6700 rpm

Were you seeing anything on your front-rotor EGT gauge that would seem suspicious?

go cosmo 8-)

Holy crap... :wallbash:

I was following your thread as I am getting a two-car garage and seriously considering rebuilding my own motor.. The work you did looks flippin sweet and I wouldn't of even held myself up to that high of a standard..

But the end result gives me pause..

I'd push through and just replace that plate and other items you mentioned and try again.. It would be hard to do all that work and just get rid of it.

Chris would have to give you that answer. I do know that the rear rotor was running lean on the previous weekend, and it was trimmed out to be even. The trim changes would have still been in place for the dyno the second time around.

Cosmo, REW, or 20B of course would be the next viable option. Either that, or stud my motor to hell and back.

All those options are much more money, and I honestly don't feel like taking another chance at this point.

Thanks for the compliments. I assure you that there is nothing like having the satisfaction of a motor starting up, knowing that you built it with your own two hands.
But keep in mind, the failure hurts that much worse as well.

I would love to continue, but the issue is resolving the problem first. I have not been able to eliminate the problem at all, so everything has been pretty much a waste to this point.

I do, however, wish you luck with your build.

Were all the failures with the same ECU, Map, Firmware, Software? Maybe there is some kind of intermittent glitch that is causing timing go haywire. How is the wiring to the CAS, maybe it is cross firing or picking up interference from the ignition?


Where are they cracking?

No, first two failures were on an E6X and stock coils. I am pretty sure the first 2 were somewhat related to the ECU and a glitch of somesort that you mentioned.

Hence the reason for the upgrade to the E8, and a complete re-wire. CAS wires are shielded in the Haltech wiring loom, plus I wrapped the whole wire with Aluminum Tape from the CAS back (you can see the reflection through the mesh loom in some of the pics).

Third failure was on the E8, with the new beefy coils, and 10mm thick Magnecores.

They are cracking on the front plate, on the dowel pin land, on the oil galley. Here is a pic from the last break:

http://www.nopistons.com/forums/uplo...7359_thumb.jpg

http://www.nopistons.com/forums/uplo...7282_thumb.jpg

Crack this time is the same.

Well personally the way i would attack this would to figure what was on the car trough all the failures.

I wouldn't think it was anything motor wise (seals, irons, ect...) and all of the wiring has been replaced. Maybe one of the sensors is going south. If the CAS was loosing it's home signal that would cause some very interesting problems. Was the CAS the same for all the failures. I wouldn't imagine a small variation in timing would cause this, you would almost have to fire it 180 degrees out of phase or something extreme like that. If it was the timing being off just a few degrees you would think you would have a little audible warning before it failed. And even then you would think the seals would let go before the iron. When the motor is at or close to TDC there is very little of the iron exposed to the combustion chamber but roll it back 20 degreed and there is a lot more surface area for the detonation to slam against.

Just my $0.02


My vote is something ignition related that caused a plug to fire at the wrong time.

I agreed with this logic on the first 2 times, which is why I got away from the E6X, and the stock ignition and wiring. The CAS that came with the motor, when I bought the car stock with a blown rear seal, was in there for the first 2 failures.

On this failure, it was a completely different CAS. Unless they both were having problems, but from the trigger diagnostics, this one was getting a good signal.

Thanks for your input! This helps generate thinking for figuring out the cause, which is what I MUST do before I even consider moving forward.

I really wish some of the some more big wigs would come in here and give their $.02

someday you and i should trade war stories when it comes to luck with Rx-7s. :)

on a serious note, it sucks. however, you're in this for a reason and unless you feel the passion is truly fading or dead - these things will always happen, so just take your time to mourn, lament, be angry and analyze, then get right back in it.

timing is the only thing i can think of right now, and i would definitely urge you to verify and re-verify the marks on the pulley. out of curiosity, where on the front housing did it crack? dowel area?


EDIT

i see you posted a pic while i was going between the keyboard and TV ... sorry. dowel area confirmed.