My dry sump s475 powered p-port build.
 

I was going to wait to finish more before i started a thread.. but im going to anyways.

recently i gained access to a CNC machine shop where it suddenly became quite easy for me to make lots of amazing stuff quite cheaply.

I have machined a D-shaped peripheral port, which will be fed by 2" I.D. intake tubes.

I will also be CNCing some roller barrel throttle bodies out of aluminum, which ride on ball bearings for smooth usage.


here is my beautiful S475 right out of the box.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1888417_n.jpg

in this pic you can see various pieces of metal for machining including all of my intake and exhaust flanges, my 3/4" thick aluminum dry sump pan, my peripheral port bases, and the base for my throttle bodies. Theres also some intake and exhaust pipes here, as well as my 3 stage external dry sump.

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...60_58630_n.jpg

heres a few pics of my incomplete stainless steel intake manifold, which still needs to be finished/ ground down smooth on the inside.

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5520773_n.jpghttp://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._4286069_n.jpg

here is what that metal looked like when it was flat.

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7476113_n.jpg


these are my stainless intake runners that come directly out of the p-port. These also are not complete yet.

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7603538_n.jpg

a few stainless 304 flanges:

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...0_572800_n.jpg


here are a few pics of the roller barrel throttle bodies in the 3D assembly.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7484772_n.jpg
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6214648_n.jpg


I actually have my p-port housings and inserts complete, i just dont have a camera currently to take those pictures.


more progress to come.

-Zander

looks good. Any particular reason for using stainless on the intake instead of aluminum?

easier to weld is my guess. aluminum is tricky sometimes. looks like he is using a mig as well.

I used stainless because i haven't learned how to weld aluminum yet..
I actually TIG welded it, but because it was sheet metal, and not all the seems perfectly matched up, it got pretty messy.

The only reason to use aluminum is for weight savings. In the end, it will cost you some hp because aluminum transfers heat at a much faster rate than steel. You want your intake runners to stay as cool as possible if all possible. Aluminum sucks for this reason. If made out of steel, sure it may weigh a little more but you wont transfer nearly as much heat. I never knew that aluminum could transfer heat so fast since I started fabricating my intake for my 20b. Anytime I was handling aluminum, I would have to quicky used gloves to keep my hands from burning. With steel it was different. It was as if the heat transfer started to dissipate as it traveled through the metal. I'm in no way a metal expert. That's just my experience.

well, I just didn't know how to weld aluminum, but knowing this, i might have made the right choice anyways. :icon_tup:

Ok, i got around to taking pics of the rest of my setup.


Here's one of the inserts for the peripheral ports:

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...11_8089287.jpg
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._4196427_n.jpg

heres some pics of the machining in the rotor housing:

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...719_222507.jpg
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6336755_n.jpg
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6554965_n.jpg

did a little smoothing out of the rough edges on my intake mani.

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._4147419_n.jpg
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5753720_n.jpg
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...16_5131014.jpg

here's a pic of my drysump up close, although its not too good of a pic.

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7346074_n.jpg

lol is that you in your avatar?

haha yeh thats me:rolleyes:

got a little bit of work done this past week.

This 3/4" thick piece of aluminum is my dry sump pan, and should hopefully be thick enough to keep the engine from twisting apart. I decided to run the scavenge lines out of the bottom of the pan.

this is my first time doing aluminum TIG welding, so i think i am justified to grind it smooth :lol:



engine mocked up sitting on the plate:

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5536311_n.jpg


this is the top of the plate, where you can see the two 5/8" oil inlets for the dry sump.

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1968977_n.jpg


this is the bottom of the plate, where you can see i have routed both scavenging sections off to the side, where hoses will connect onto. The space in between the tubes will be where my subframe will run.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5001607_n.jpg


more to come.

-Zander

So i am having trouble gettin my insert into my peripheral port hole..
i've managed to get it mostly in, but the rest of the way it just doesn't seem to slide in..
It is a zero clearance press fit.

any ideas? I've already tried heating the rotor housing and freezing the insert.. and of course using a mallet.

zero clearence should fit just with some light tapping, you sure something isnt drasticly different?

They have identical demensions, and i even used the same carbide cutter on both the hole and the insert.

I have a feeling i might actually need to put it in a press.

I would do more work on the insert. The outer walls of your housing are so thin ( at the insert) that a press fit may bow the housing out causing a seal issue.

Yeh, those little pieces are only .08 of an inch thick each.

but if i put the insert in upside down, it actually slips right into that space without any issues.

The only spot where it seems to have a hard time going in is the D-shaped area of the port.

Place the inserts in the freezer for a day or so. Heat the housing either in an oven or gently with a torch. Slide the cold sleeve into the warm housing.

I actually did do that to get it as far as it is now..
mabey 350* isn't hot enough?

it sounds like maybe the housing cooled down by the time you got it half way in, or vise versa. What you need to do is remove the sleeve and go buy some dry ice, pack the dry ice around the insert in a baggie or something and stick it in the freezer for an hour or so then heat the housing to 400f and be sure to get the whole insert set into place quickly before it heats up and expands or before the housing cools down

I wouldn't heat a housing to anything higher than 250f from fear of warping it.

do you really think this is a realistic possibility?

yes, its alluminum. what do you think happens when you severely overheat and engine? it warps the housings.

I would be slightly worried, since people are worried about warped housings at temps as low as 250 degrees Fahrenheit.

However, I think the real damage happens to the water seal. But that is just my opinion, that is not backed by any factual evidence.

Now, I doubt there will be a fear of warping when the heat is applied evenly to a part under no stress... so it will expand evenly, and cool down evenly.

i took some pics of what the housing looks like currently:

they have roughly 1/2" of space that they need to move inward.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...8_856556_n.jpg
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6841291_n.jpg
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._3286970_n.jpg

nobody has any advice?
what about using a hydraulic press?

Put a thin layer of transfer dye on the insert and see if you can find exactly where it is getting snagged up. Just hit the area it is rubbing on with a sandpaper flapper wheel until you can get it to go in.

alright, that sounds like it'll work.
thanks dude :icon_tup:

Updates?
I'm doing the same thing, only different shape ports, different timing and a sexier RBTB ;D

Same turbo too? Post pics of your setup!

any updated? pics? cant wait to see this finished. looks awsome so far.

afraid i dont have any updates right now, but i can let you guys know what the deal is.

I just started working after being unemployed for a bit, so money is offically now coming in.

The roller barrel throttle bodies are almost complete in there design, so it wont be too many weeks (mabey a month) before they are done.

As far as the rest of the intake manifold, and the turbo manifold, i can start any time, just dont have access to a welder right now. (if you live in south FL and would like to lend me a TIG/MIG welder, i would be quite appreciative.)

the only thing i have done since my last updates are just cleaning up the intake plenum on the inside/outside for looks/smooth flow.

seeing as this is quite the budget build for me, any pointers on anyone on how i could save money here or there would be quite helpful.

at the moment, i am considering dual 60mm tial wastegates, a 50mm bov; If anybody thinks i can get away with running smaller gates and still achieve boost as low as 10psi while street crusing, please let me know.

updates soon

-Zander

Money saving tip #1: Dual 60mm TiAls is overkill. The 44mm WGs will definitely do the job.

On my GT4202 (T6) setup on my 20B, all that I have is a single 44. Running on just the 0.6 Bar spring, I was getting no boost spikes. For more complete information's sake, my motor is unported and we were only running it up to 7500 RPM.

trust me, i want to go with the 44s, they are a lot cheaper, but i've been told on a turbo p-port im gunna need huge wastegates to regulate low boost..
if anybody knows specifically about p-port turbos, could you please chime in?

I don't fully understand the reasoning on trying to run 10psi on the street with a p-port and 75mm turbo....

But, 2x 44mm WG's will flow over 500 CFM of waste air, I would definitely at least try with them and only upgrade if you have issues. Or, for that matter, DONT RUN ONLY 10PSI ON THE STREET?!?!? you will only enjoy about 1/8 of your power range, and you will be way out of that turbo's efficiency range.

well thats fair comment really..

I want that as a low boost setting. I plan on having 25psi-ish on pump with water injection as a high boost setting. When running e85, i plan on at least 35psi.

even at 10psi it'll be upwards of 450rwhp.

I think it would be worth your while to see if the two 44's will do you. With a proper manifold design and boost controller (maybe consider running one of the C02 powered boost controllers) I'm sure the 44's will give you all the boost control you need.

ok, then thats probably what i'll do. hey, if it fails, then i'll just remake the wastegate runners on the manifold so they hold 60mm gates.

On my old GT42R/Half-Bridge setup, I used dual Tial 44mm wastegates and could hold boost at 14psi (which was the spring rate). I don't think you will need 60mm wastegates.

I hope you are right.
It will just be very important to get the angles of the runners exact if i want to get away with the 44mm gates.

DUde. DO it once and never look back. What *IF* you end up having to get the 60mm's for some reason. The money you WERe trying to save, could make you spend even more.

that's what im worried about.. :/ I guess your right.

You do know you can go too big too right? I know where you are but the simple fact is that every setup is different and you won't know until you try it. I'm sure thats not what you wanted to hear :icon_tup:

I didnt know that. SO now the question is. What factors decide the correct wastegate size?

sweet bro

I'm sure two 44s would work just fine with such a large turbine/housing; personally I think it has more to do with wastegate runner design than anything.

60mm wastegate, twin runners to the 60mm.. And you will be fine... enjoy...

2 44's flow more than 1 60mm wastegate.

Have you considered cutting channels into the pan to guide oil towards the scavenge pickups? Its too late now but placing the pickups dead center in the pan would be a better design. One in the front and one in the back. Inline filters between the pickups and pump will save the pump housings from debris in the event of engine failure.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1248703690

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1248703690

Also you need more practice with TIG. I thought your welds were MIG. You have too much penetration. Are you using gas? Did you prep the metal? Scuff it and acetone it?

Grinding aluminum welds for appearance severely weakens the weld. They probably will develop cracks.

thanks guys.

to the above:

I will be using inline filters to the pump, so i am not worried about that.

I did prep up the metal and everything first, i was using gas, but this pan was my first time TIG welding aluminum.

how do you think i should construct the grooves? it seems like a good idea.

Use an end mill. Keep them shallow.

This should get you thinking. This is an old version. The design has since been changed to what I described above. The mesh is JB welded window screen. It saves the pump from the larger chucks of bearing material.
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1248715456

TIG welding aluminum seems to always require more current than you think. I'd expect about 120amp for the fittings you welded onto the pan. Start the pool on the thicker piece of metal then drag it across to the thinner piece while filling. You might want to experiment with preheating the parts using an acetylene torch.

ok, i'll keep that in mind.

As far as the aluminum welds go, do you think i should re-make the fittings? It was a first attempt, and so far, i am only really pleased with the way it looks visually.