Going single for less (I know it's weak)
 

Hey guys, my twins started puking oil bad recently, and I refuse to put another pair on the car. I've started buying parts for the new single setup. I don't entirely trust the turbo I bought, I'm just hoping it will last long enough for me to buy a descent turbine.

My horsepower goal is 300-320 rwhp. I have a KnightSports ECU tuned to 1.0bar, but I don't plan to use any more than 8 PSI.

What I plan on getting:

- T04B cheap ebay turbo. (already purchased for $200 + shipping)

Compressor Specs:
3" Compressor Inlet
2.128" or 54.06mm Inducer
2.752" or 69.91mm Major
2" Compressor Outlet
Compressor .50 A.R.
Compressor 50 Trim
8 Blade Propeller Type
T4 Compressor Housing

Turbine Specs:
T4 Type Turbine
T4 4 Bolt Flange
2.539" or 64.50mm Exducer
Turbine 1.15 A.R.
Turbine 70 Trim
2.880" or 73.16mm Major
T4 Twin Entry Turbine Housing

- eBay 304 stainless manifold
Redo all the welds to prevent cracking.

- eBay Wastegate. (45-50mm)

- eBay intake piping & a cone filter.

What do you all think of this?

Why not buy a single turbo kit used on this site?

"cheap" kits here on the site are $1500+

the kit I am looking at will cost less than $600, and it's all brand new. I know it's not as nice as the stuff people have on here, but it's all I can afford to keep the FD on the road until I can get a good turbo.

I rather keep the fd in the garage and save up for a better setup then do what you did.

If you wanted to just keep the FD on the road until you have enough money for a single setup why not buy a good condition used twins turbo way cheaper then 600 so you'll have some money left over for the single setup later.

Your probably going to have more problems with your new setup then before.

I will tell you from 1st hand experience that you are getting ready to spend an a@@load of money on this BAD decision.

Those ebay turbos are nightmares. The manifold will be fine if it's decent... the turbo will cause you all kinds of problems which will lead to you inevitably purchasing again and possibly fixing the repercussions. Get a GT3574 (good bang for the buck) and you'll be MUCH better off in the long run AND spend less money.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...dfasefasdf.jpg

The only component that would really need replacing is the turbo, all the other stuff should be fine. I've seen other people, use these components with no issues.

The reason i don't want another set of twins is because they are usually around $300, and there's no way to tell if they work good, or for how long. That $300 is better spent on a manifold and Waste gate.

Wait a bit get a quality kit. Cheaper always ends up to be more expensive in the long run. Do it right the first time.

If you are still dead set on this, DO NOT buy the Ebay turbo, buy a used Holset off of Ebay which will cost around $200 and they are quality turbos.

I wouldn't trust that ebay wastegate either

Just one other bit about the ebay manifold(s) that I'm sure you're overlooking and I can share from having been in that boat.

First they mostly have HKS flange wastegates. HKS wastegates are terribly more expensive than Tial. You'll eventually have to pony up the cash for a good wastegate (more money), have the HKS flange cut off and a Tial V-band added (more money), or purchase an HKS-Tial Adapter (more money). In the end, that cheap manifold will cost you about the same as doing it right the first time.

Sent you a pm to rebuilt turbos worth buying.

Theres a article somewhere on those ebay turbos and how bad they are. Google it.
Quality turbos require precise and tested machining and balancing.

If you use the Ebay manifold have the flange machined if not it will most likely leak between the turbo and manifold.

Idk if youve calculated
oil feed and return lines/fittings.
Manifold to turbo gasket.
Rear oil return line block off plate ( you can gheto fab/plug up using the stock line and jbweld)
Egr block off plate

^^ don't forget a CUSTOM downpipe.

Yeah, I've factored those in. And I knew this wasn't going to be a long lasting setup, it just has to get me through spring. The stock twins won't get me thru another week.

At least this way i have some components I can use. I'll sell the ebay turbo once i can afford a good one. and I have access to most of the tools i would need to build/machine a flange. And the manifold comes with all the gaskets I'll need. If the manifold eventually goes, i plan on buying a HKS cast iron one.

I'll buy a good turbo and waste gate in a few months. I just can't have this thing puking oil like it is now. It was this or run it N/A for the next few months.

It's a hit or miss type thing with those turbos...I tried alot of them just to see (even when I had my Garrett sitting on the shelf) they either slung apart due to cheap wheels and not balanced or they poored oil like no tomorrow....had one though that worked great and it's my spare turbo now. It was the ss autochrome t70. 2 friends of mine bought those too and they worked damn good. But remember these cheap turbos can't be repaired like Garrett or holesets or other name brands...

The manifolds work ok. Just weld on some braces and make sure the flange is flat. The wastegates I've used and they all worked great. The tial replicas are the ones I get cause they are identical (minus the engraving) and can be repaired with tial parts when needed.

But I do agree with these guys ^ get a used Garrett or holset and you should be good

I rather run it NA thats what i did

+1 to what S14.3REW says.

Plus, why ask for advice and then ignore what everyone is saying and stick to doing what you're set on anyways?

If you're that tight on cash, you probably shouldn't be doing this "upgrade".... I'd take used OEM parts over that ebay junk anyday.

But whatever floats your boat.

I shoulda posted sooner, I bought the turbo like a week ago so I'm kinda committed.

But for sure the turbo will be replaced, and I'll beef up whatever manifold I buy. I'll be sure to get a Tial replica wastegate.

ninja Edit:

I more or less asked for advice on the turbo itself. given the specs it has, would a descent quality turbo with the same specs be good enough?

Yes that size turbo would support your hp goal

You can't afford to own this car. Stop dreaming.

Lol

my friend's shop installed an "ebay turbo" on a civic. worked great until the motor blew up. haha

I feel obligated to sell you my recently decommissioned twins than see this snowball. I totally feel ya, but its always more money and time than you anticipate even taking into account overestimation. Cest la vie.

I normally dont have such a strong opinion, but i just got done doing all my single research. I totally get where you are coming from, everyone here has experienced it with one facet of their life.

is the car a daily driver?

Yeah shes my DD, I just rebuilt the motor after I had the intake portmatched and the exhaust ported. Heat treated apex's and all seals replaced. I do want to do it right, but right now my car just has to run.

:scratch:

^^^
My NA comment was towards this
My first though was he should save for a real setup but he brought up the NA setup so that reminded me if he needed the car to run asap he should do that instead of putting those cheap and dangerous parts that could harm the engine.

If its a DD i rather remove the turbo then put parts that could possibly harm then engine later but if its not a DD save for a real single set up.

if you can see if you can get rid of the ebay turbo (not saying its bad... just wouldnt put alot of trust in it) im eventually going the holset route with my FD and it would be awesome if you did the same. you could even get lucky and find one at a junk yard or something in a wreck and rebuild it for $80.

the manifold should be fine if it is tune correctly and the manifold is strengthened (just in case). ive seen some that a entire pipe will just break off! but it should do for a temporary manifold.

the wastegate shouldn't be an issue if you run low boost.. give yourself a bit of a safety net so it boost creep wont hurt you. then if it works good for a while you could probably add more boost

the intercooler piping shouldnt be too bad. if you need some good couplers go to http://www.hosetechniques.com they have some awesome couplers and vac hose.. get the silicon couplers with nomex, its like $8 for a straight coupler.

to block off the oil line in the rear get some steel or aluminum plate (aluminum is easier to work with IMO) and you can make a block off plate, its super easy. you can do the same for the EGR. that will save you some money.

so i think that just leaves the lines and fittings, and the downpipe. get a v band down pipe and keep in mind you may have to get it slightly modified to fit the turbo, but that should be easy (i would say not to do this yourself, find a good welding shop)


let us know how stuff goes, and if you dont mind could you take some pictures of the parts you have?

Sure thing, once the turbo arrives I'll take some pics.

I can post a link to the item I won if you like. I haven't purchased anything else.

Here's the link to my turbo: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=180455118547

You do know that people have blown engines from running those junk ebay turbos right?

So if that happens then you will have to sell the car.

You should have put that $600 into a beater DD.

Azriel, I'm genuinely interested in your progress. Could u do me a favor and post or pm me a budget with all the different things u anticipate to buy. I am knee deep in my single gt35r upgrade so the process is very fresh.

I once tried to turbocharge my 1990s Pontiac sunbird. I got a turbo and manifold from a 1.8l similiar car. Thank god the exhaust mounting didn't line up. So, in a weird and twisted way, I've been there too.

I've got all my twin stuff pulled fresh out so if shit hits the fan, let me know. I'm not supporting the eBay turbo route but I'm supporting a fellow forum member in need. :-)

I guess Azriel_Strife will be the myth buster.

The ebay turbo's aren't good. Well unless they are an actual brand name turbo just being sold on ebay. But the SSautochrome turbos won't hold up. Some have them rebuilt with garrett parts, but then you're adding $200-$250 to the cost of the turbo. genuine Masterpower turbos seem like a very good option for a budget build.

Both the manifold and wastegate should be fine for street use. If you get a knock off tial you will have to cut the HKS flange off and add weld the tial on there. (it uses vband) You will also need block off plates, oil lines, fittings, intercooler piping etc.

I think a budget build can be done right if you know where and how to cut corners. Most people doing cheap builds don't know what they are doing to begin with, so they just end up putting a bunch of crap on their car that's destined to fail. Even expensive parts will fail in the wrong hands.

Yeah, I'm in agreement with you. I'm probably going to sell this turbo to someone with a less demanding engine, like a civic, or a snowmobile. xD

I'll be picking up a turbo off Usedturbos.net Thanks for the link by the way.

I have a bolt in single turbo kit for sale.. Check my thread

How much are you asking for the turbo/manifold/wastegate?

Azriel, I told you several times that quality is better then knockoff products of ebay. You have a new motor that is built very well why risk it?

Honestly I think your better off to get a beater, and save for quality products or a good used single setup of this forum.

Just a Friendly reminder-The word "cheap" and "FD" do not belong in the same sentence......

I know Oly, I'm not going to cheap out on the turbo, but the other components should be ok.

I have to sell the exhaust with the manifold because its a bolt in and i don't want to sell them seperate..

but the turbo manifold/exhaust and wastegate i would let go for 1900

Complete exhaust and wastegate with no turbo 1600

check this one out... i did a quick search for good turbos and here is one of my favorites, if i had the money i would buy it!

http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...holset-378875/ im pretty sure a H1C is just a older HX-40 but it is still an awesome turbo

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/3151/parts001.jpg

if you get it i know you will love the sound of the anti-surge housing... ive always loved it :D

search for FS: threads on other forums...

if it is a genuine holset (looks like it is) then i can almost guarantee you its a good turbo, and even if it has tons of miles they are easy and cheap to rebuild

Well that looks awesome, now all I have to do is sell this other turbo I have to buy it. Unfortunately, I'm without a car until I can put something together.

i would shoot that guy an email and see if he still has it, if he does just explain your situation to him and make and offer.. i can help you look for some other used holsets, what is your budget for a turbo?

just found this one too, http://forums.evolutionm.net/sale-en...eadgasket.html

$400 for a BRAND NEW Holset HX-40 is an awesome deal. ill see if i can find some more for ya :D

I may have found a healthy set of twins and an efini y pipe and intake kit for a steal. so I may hold off and do it this winter. If i can get a reputable turbo capable of 400ish HP for 400 bucks, i'll be going that way when the time comes.. thank you very much!

:-)

I have rdahm to thank. He gave me the out I needed. Most people wanted more for a stock set of twins than what I'd have to pay for a descent single turbo. Thanks man.

Committed?! You paid $200 for that turbo.

You'll pay about that much just on the misc. fittings to get it installed correctly, let alone all the real hardware, tuning, etc. You'd be better served, cost and hassle wise to throw that turbo in the trash, pick up some used stock twins for $300, and be running again a couple days later for $500. You'll NEVER get a single done for anything near that, and be luckier still not to blow your motor once you're done.

You later post says this is you daily driver, and it "just need to run". How long do you figure it's going to be down while you do a budget install job with all these mix-n-match parts? I've known competent mechanics with good quality kits who's cars have been down weeks and months for a single turbo conversion.

you can get braided oil line kits for RX-7's for 35 dollars. so that's a far cry from 200. I can get a brand new reputable turbo for 400 from what I've been told here. and the manifold I plan on getting should hold up fine with some extra bracing. So all said and done that's around 600-700 dollars.

The turbo swap itself might be more difficult if I didn't all ready have an ECU tuned for a single turbo ready to plug in, but I do. I'm confident I could take care of the mechanical aspect in about 4 hours. Then I would have to fab a down pipe, and build a screamer pipe for my waste gate. From there it would be a matter of fine tuning on the dyno, which i have access to at the shop where I built my engine.

I don't see it taking 2 weeks to do if I have all the parts waiting. Actually, it should be faster to install than the twins and all the stock junk. Perhaps they were waiting on parts to arrive that they ordered?

It will always take longer and cost more then you think. You will save a lot by doing things yourself, but if you're making the downpipe from stainless, unless you get it for free somehow the cost of the stainless fittings/pipe/bung/v-band and what not will cost like $100- 150 easy. Silicone couplers aren't cheap either, like $35 just for an elbow. Silicone hose, some kind of wastegate lines (stainless preferred) You can easily spend a few hundred in just miscellaneous crap you never even thought of.

As far as time goes, you will always run into problems, there is no way you will get all that out and back in in 4 hrs. You could have a stud stuck that takes you 4 hrs to remove. Always allow for error. Once you get it all back together you could end up with a funny idle that takes several hrs to figure out whats going on. Or an exhaust leak on a vband that just wont go away.

I would allow $1000-1500 when piecing together a budget turbo kit. I would be extremely surprised if you'll come out at $600-700 when all is said and done. I'm all for going single on a budget, (I did) but you have to be realistic about it.

Yeah, I get what you mean. It just seems like a lot of people want it now and won't wait for a deal. Or have money to burn and just buy what's there.

I'm confident I can have this done for under $1000. I have connections in the right places to keep the cost of a downpipe and exhaust fittings WAY DOWN. As well as access to a hoist and a welder and other misc things that make stuff way easier. Auto parts account that should keep odds and ends prices at a minimum.

I'll keep you all updated, as I may have some extra time with another set of twins.

I got a $1000 in stainless lines and AN fittings lol...... Go with those stock twins and efiny y pipe you will be happy!

id say doing a single kit (turbo, manifold, downpipe, and lines/fittings) it could cost you from about $900-$1300 depending on what parts you get. keep an eye on the FS section for manifolds and downpipes. the manifold should be easy but the down pipe could be hard.

the hard part about lines and fittings is getting the right adapters to suit the engine and the turbo, the lines should be easy.. seriously, you will need no longer than like 2 1/2 feet of stainless line

and before you buy a certain manifold or downpipe, do a little research and see what other people think about it, that have actually TRIED IT! i get that alot, people wont try a certain product but will say its worthless just because its cheap.. for instance i got my intercooler for $180 new (with piping, t-bolt clamps, silicon couplers, and the core) sure its not a $1500 intercooler but it works almost as good as one that costs that much.

a manifold i would definatly look at all options, they have to put up with alot of stress. so if you find one post it on here and do a little research on it. a downpipe wouldnt be something i would worry about breaking just as long as it is thick enough.

Ever ran a H1E? I had read that it spooled more like the HX-35 with the top end of the HX-40. I got one off eBay for $200 shipped, and we put it on another car to try it. We have no dyno maps or anything, but it didn't disappoint at all.

I had always shyed away from 40's bc of some old posts I had read about them not liking rotarys. Like I said old, things do change.

We have however NEVER had problems with the 2 HX-50 cars we have around here.

That and Holset rebuild kits are cheap as hell. I like Holsets. It would be (and will be) my "cheap" turbo choice. Though I have to do the cheap route bc I never have the money to buy one of the quality kits I want. I have to buy parts a piece at a time. I plan on spending $1500 to $2k, but can't all at once. And saving money for car shit, when my little girls want dinosaurs and princess stuff, just don't fly for me right now. :nod:

I hear that bit about your daughters. My little girl is having her first birthday in a bit over a week. So my priorities aren't based on my car :D.