FD3S/FC3S: Any demand for Vacuum Infused Dry Carbon Doors?
 

I've been thinking about this for a long time and we definitely do have the capability of producing these now that we've moved to a new facility.


This is a question for the FD and FC guys. Is there demand for high end carbon doors?


I know there is a currently supplier of carbon doors in the market, but I believe they are produced using the traditional wet lay carbon fiber technique. It's an okay technique for show quality pieces, but for high strength and lightness, it won't compare with the Vacuum process we will be using.

I believe they are offering a pair of Carbon doors for roughly $1600-2000. I believe we can offer both pairs at a more affordable price depending on whether the skeleton will be carbon or FRP.

I am guessing we can offer a pair between the $1100-1400 range for Vacuum infused honeycomb backed carbon, which will be very high in strength quality. It will be lighter than hand laid parts, with much higher strength. I know lightness is of great concern, but how important is the strength of the door for a track car?

I would love to hear some opinions.

Ken

Id like set for an FC, but is there a way I can still use my strap windows. My car dosnt have manual or power just a simple strap and lock to keep my window up.

I'd love a set for the FC rather than gut the door for the door bars, that and give it some seriously reduced weight.

"Those doors" from "that company" you speak of have been on my to-do list for a while now. :)

hmm i am in the market to look for a new door. I am interested :)

What are the weights for a stock FD door and a stock FC door? I know they are both very heavy. They feel close to 100 lbs each.

Would you have any sort of reinforcement against crashing? I know most aftermarket doors I've ever seen don't have nearly the reinforcement, and I assume the crash safety that OEM doors generally do. I assume that's where a lot of the weight comes from :).

- Andy

I'm 100% in if this happens for my FC.

are these for the interior of the doors or the exterior of the doors
The company you speak of (rhymes with Cinnabon) makes both.
I have had my eye on the interior for a while

I'm interested but wouldn't jump in until I get a sample shot or two.

your making me broke Ken...... broke..and happy.

I want some FC CF doors! NOW! Super!

Hey Ken,
I'd also take a look at the piece which holds the door handle in on the FC...I've noticed on other CF doors that if you open too hard it tends to crack and/or break where the handle mounts. Also try to reinforce the parts where the interior door handle mounts for all of our gf's who like to pull the door closed hard. Just some sugguestions...

You should not be running these sorts of doors unless you have a quality welded roll cage installed.

Ken,
it would be nice to have provisions for windows for those of us with open trailers.

Ken, any plans to make any other dry carbon parts?

I think it is great that you're bringing dry carbon up to the stage. Dry carbon is far more superior to wet carbon. I'm interested in the doors, but it all depends on how it would look from the inside. Will the door panels be able to fit right on and will those of us who drive our rx7s on the street be able to use our power or manual windows?

Sunroof Panels!

Side impact safety is important on all cars, less full blown race cars w/Nascarish roll cages (don't think that 5 or 6 point is automatically going to cut it alone- unless you want to be impaled by the single bar that's 4" from your arm.)

I'm very interested in a strong light door for my FD.

I'd expect that anyone serious enough to have carbon doors would at least have an X door bar, but i'm forgetting about the drag racers and street crowd i guess.

there are quite a few carbon doors out there for the FD already, maybe only one the FC's that you have to order from japan
but then again people with the FDs are willing to blow more money parts

You're kidding, right?

Running any aftermarket fiberglass or carbon fiber door SHOULD require a full cage. Why the hell would you put this in a street car? Whether its wet or dry carbon would not matter. Any strong enough side impact will crash into the cabin.

I really don't recommend this for the street cars. There's a safety factor in all this, even if you reinstall all your factory components back onto the door (window, electronics, door panel). I doubt many of you read or fully understand the "For Off-Road Use Only". Nor do I think ShineAuto wants the guilt of having a fellow member be killed in a traffic accident.

Fc doors will pay deposit ASAP!!!!

also looking for CF blank centor consel panels.

Im sure theres 0 demand for it but a CF roof skin that deletes the sunroof panel.
such that you would cut the skin off the car and replace it with the CF piece.

Doors
doors
doors

Well first of all, all parts we offer are for "Off Road Use Only." Whatever you guys wish to do with our parts that's up to you.

I don't recommend FRP, Carbon, or Dry Carbon or any composite doors for street use. If I really really wanted to lighten up my street car by lightning up the doors, I would definitely go with our vacuum process because I know it is much stronger than the other options given similar weight. The honeycomb/coremat material plays a big role in the added strength.

For a race car... my question is... does the strength really matter? Or does it just simply makes you feel better knowing you have carbon doors.

From my experience , standard FRP and wet lay carbon will both be weak in an impact. The only benefit I see is lightness.

However, we can produce vacuumed FRP and CF doors, which will be significantly stronger for just a small fraction higher than the current market price. Our vacuum infused FRP door, in my opinion, is actually stronger than a wet laid carbon door, will be slightly more expensive than standard FRP doors.

For our vacuumed carbon doors, I've already mentioned that we can be much more competitive and realistic in pricing than the FD carbon doors currently out in the market and at the same time.... offering a much higher quality product.

The "look" of the carbon will be very similar to our FD3S Carbon Street Diffuser because it is essentially using the same process. The main difference will be in laminant thickness and strength. Our street diffuser was made a bit thin and flimsy by design so it can easily conform to the bottom of the rear bumper. The doors will be MUCH more solid.

Shine FD3S Vacuumed Carbon Street Diffuser...

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/6...sc08705jk6.jpg

There's a tighter, more pressed, and less glossy look with our vacuum process. The main reason for the loss in gloss is the process optimizes resin to fabric ratio. Less resin means stronger part. Excess resin only creates brittleness and the excess resin is one of the main source for gloss. If you really need a glossy part, you can always have it clear coated, which will also add weather protection.

Here are sample "dry" carbon pieces made for the S2000.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7069/bentrunknf5.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8995/bentrunk2la8.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4605/bentrunk3kb5.jpg


A door , I believe, is made up of a skin and a skeleton. The doors will be similar to these... only stronger.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/2776/jsdoorik9.jpg

I'm referring only to the door itself, not the door panel. The source of most of the weight is the door. The CF door panel is mainly for show.

How many of you are really really looking to lighten up your car as much as possible to gain an advantage? I personally believe lightness is the key to building a good race/track car.

My whole front end is already made of composites. The only thing left are the doors and hatch.

Ken

Here's a sample pic of what you can do to simplify your door panel.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/884...2174883fy8.jpg

i would be interested in these for the FC

Would you make these available for the verts as well?

shit I'll buy a set for my FD pls

For a racecar I'm less interested in strength as I'd have reinforcement behind the door with my cage. I wouldn't go with carbon but instead a softer FRP that has a modulus of elasticity that will allow for the odd bump or ding to not require repair or worse yet replacement of said door.

Also, since the doors would be two parts bonded together some hardcore people maybe just interested in the outer skin and with mounting points at the front and a semi jam at the rear.

I myself wouldn't need mounting points for any window hardware, locks, etc. Most racecars simply retain the unlocking assembly but run a thin piece of aircraft cable to another point at the front of the door so you can just give a downward tug and the door pops open. My vote is (softer) FRP and a just the outer shell with surrounding jams.

I'm also interested for my timeattack car but shipment to Belgium will be to much I think. Also interested in the rear hatch if you could make it.

Very good points Jason. I think you answered most of my questions. The skeleton won't add much weight. Maybe 1-2 lbs on each side :). It helps with providing accurate mounting points.

Vacuumed FRP seems to be ideal , since it will reduce the cost of the item and do the job. You'll be amazed how strong it is. We can also experiment with a flexible formula as well to give it an extra soft touch. However, I've seen both vacuumed FRP and Carbon , although very stiff, be able to withstand the impact of a baseball bat because there is slight flexibility upon impact. It's the strength of the bond between the fabrics and resin that keep is together. If it was handlaid FRP or Carbon, the impact from a baseball bat would shatter it in an instant.

Shall we make a list of who might be interested? I would like to do some experiments :). The reason why I ask is because molds/tooling are very expensive to produce and it would be a shame if there wasn't really a market. Prices of the products can always be adjusted , so demand is most important.

I feel we can provide very good value. If everything goes well and the demand is strong, I believe we can provide a pair of FRP doors w/skeleton for $700-850. I don't think there are standard FRP doors on the market for that price. The product quality will be significantly better, which adds value as well.

Ken

Shipping by sea wont be that much :). You just need to get a couple of buddies to help you out. Have you spoken with Neal?


We would do the hatch if there is demand for a better quality one. There are aftermarket carbon ones already available. However, they are handlaid and might not be stiff enough to keep a GT wing stable. We can make a super strong one, which would be lighter as well. Price will be competitive as long as there is strong demand.

Ken

800$ for a pair

@.@

sign me up pls

Haven't spoken to Neal yet, but when I will collect my stuff I will speak to him about it. Any idea when the bumper,diffuser and sides will arrive? Want to make my fc as light as possible and I prefer your parts to the other compagnies.

Its going by air and has already gone out early last week. It should arrive fairly soon.

so are the doors going to be as strong/ crash resistant like the stock doors? i mean i wouldnt want to put these on a car that is dd or driven on the street at all if the risk of getting t boned could mean my life

So how much weight would we actually save with these doors, whether they are vacuum infused dry carbon or fiberglass? I think the majority of people who would want these are gonna put them on their street car.

You think there will be an 80lb difference between the stock doors and the carbon fiber ones? That's a lot more than I thought lol. If these are made for the verts as well then I will def buy a set.

count me in on FC doors

I could be interested in either FRP or Carbon, would need to see if anyone else in the UK would want them to save on freight and import duties!

count me in for a pair for the FC, pm me when you need deposits

count me in for FC doors

I'm with you Ken. Lets start opening some light doors. I will need a set of these doors when they are ready for my fd3s

Let give this some more time and see if there's more interest. Seems like there's more interest for FC doors than FD doors.

Ken, let us FC guys know for sure when you'd need deposits.

I'd love to see these doors available for the FC and FD. I'd probably buy a set for my FD farther down the line(year maybe) as I plan to make that a track car, but not for my FC.

I'm definitely interested in the vacuumed FRP doors just not until I put bars first...but is there anyone else that is interested in the FD hatch? Cuz I'm in for that!

If you get more then 10 people ill crap myself...
not to presume to tell you how to do your job (im personally a huge fan of yall)
but could you pick a # that you need? so we could start getting a list together and be done with this one way or another... also may want to through up a post in the race section.

i'm interested and the price mentioned above is closer to my price range then what i've scene out there.

hey whats up Ken its ill take one for my FC,

I will take a set of CF doors and a set of FRP for the FC.