Android Please
 

So how long till we can start tuning via android and a USB/Serial interface cable?

These ancient palms and their finicky cable issues are driving me crazy...

+1

As soon as people buy $10k of Rteks needed to have it developed.

I've gotten quotes from mobile app contractors (android and iOS) and I've gotten quotes as low as $5k (from india) and and high as $15k (US).

I'm lucky if I make $10k in profit off Rteks in a year. I just can't justify the cost.

If there are any serious devs out there that are willing to put the time in, I can provide whatever you need. But I'm not going to give stuff out to anyone that asks just so they can tinker. Last two people I gave info (as well as hardware) out to, I never heard from again.

That makes sense. It probably does not make any difference but, i know i would pay money to upgrade to an android app even without any hardware changes.

And im not talking just the sub $10 price point most apps cost. I would be worth upwards of $50 or even some higher to me...with all the problems ive had with the palms and serial cables....i love the system when it works but it has been a real pain for me with connection problems...

I neither own nor like anything with the android platform. But I would immediately go out and buy one if there were a paid phone app version of RX7Logger. I think I'd pay as much as $125 or more because that's how much dyno funds it cost to recover from a recent Palm issue.

But then you'd have to consider the obsolescence of the serial interface as well. Is it feasible to devise a serial adapter and expect it to communicate with a droid, winmo, ifon, or j2me phone? And how often do you kids upgrade your phones these days? Every two years? Every time a cool one comes out? Doesn't sound like a long-lived platform to me. You'll end up with a dedicated RTek droid (two, if you prefer) plus another one to make phone calls and update your facebook.

The serial port continues to outlive its intended technological lifespan. The fact is it remains alive and well on the PC platform, albeit in the form of USB-to-serial adapters these days. Would it be more economical to develop for the PC? It doesn't have to be Windows-based. It could live on a bootable CD or USB stick, load Linux (or whatever), find a serial port, and bring up RX7Logger.

No intention to start yet another platform discussion --

In short, I'll support anything "modern-like" that talks to the RTek.

The serial interface is definitely a concern. I mean both iOS and Android have been out for years and only recently did they get serial interfaces. The thing is there's nothing to replace it!

You can't use USB.. Even though that is SLOWLY changing with USB OnTheGo support which I think some android devices support. But i doubt iOS will support it any time soon.

Yes, there is bluetooth, but it has downsides...like halving your data rate. I'm not even sure iOS and/or Android officially support the Serial bluetooth profile. I know at one point neither did.

Ideally, you'd use wifi, and everything would be web based. I have working prototypes of streaming realtime ECU data to an iphone (well, any ) browser using AJAX. But there are issues with that as well...like dead battery really quick, Overheated iPhones (yes I overheated it) cost of hardware on the ECU side ($100+) as well as the fact that most handsets won't connect to ad-hoc networks.

Then there is the cost of the device. What if you don't have/don't want an android phone. Who's going to buy a $600 phone outside of a contract just to use it with the Rtek? At least with iOS, you have the iPod Touch. That was the nice thing about the web based stuff, you could use anything that had a browser.

There is a lot of directions you could go. I think the web based direction is the best in terms of future-proofing the product as well as compatibility with the most platforms. I mean I'd love to do it, but how much future does the Rtek have to justify the time and material cost of development?

What language is the current logger app in? Java or C++? Either of those could be run on an android. Not directly, but altered through the Android SDK or NDK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_OS...on_development

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android...)#Applications

PalmOS is C/C++. Android apps are usually in Java, but can be "natively developed" in C/C++.

Android's phones have usb controllers (host) in them. They are not just a usb end device that requires a host (computer). A micro/mini usb adapter and serial-to-usb adapter combinations could be used with an android devices. The big thing would be to have the app created/ported.

No easy task to create or port an application from one platform to another. It's hard enough to create a complex app in a language you ALREADY know.

AndroidOS and iOS are very popular. C/C++ is a language that can be used across many platforms. There are Win, *nix, and Mac compilers. Guess what, Android is a flavor of *nix too!

In general, the cost of adding communications circuits are cheaper when using old school serial or usb connections. Wireless and bluetooth are more expensive. For development of a device or software, you also have to think of how you can accommodate the most people efficiently and cost effectively. A C/C++ app to work on windows/*nux and AndroidOS should cover a larger portion of the users. Creating an app that would work for iOS would be 'nice," but probably far away from cost effective.

For those of you that have a laptop, grab a "null modem cable" and a serial-to-usb adaptor and look into the PalmOS Emulator. It works, but it is not officially supported.

Humor:

I think there was some app on FileHippo.com that you could import a palmos app and export to ios or other platforms too! :lol:

i'd deff pay 50 or 60 bucks for an rx7logger app. I hate my PALM, lol

I'll officially support this idea as well.

I can't find my palm atm and I'll be damned if I buy another antiquated piece of "technology". Yes, there is a boot leg workaround to use a pc, but I'm not interested in half-ass pseudo-solutions (truth be told I have an old laptop w/battery life about as good as a palm.
Lol) This is the same reason I don't mess around w/bit torrent and other such foolishness. Id rather pay a fair price and have something work than get it for "free" and waste so much time trouble shooting that it ends up costing more than the real thing.

Palm OS Emulator FTW
 

^I agree in spirit..... Although you can't beat torrents for watching auto racing. Even though I pay Comcast a boatload of money, their POS DVR with its tiny hard drive just doesn't cut it. They're also my ISP, so they provide the technology to bootleg programming I pay them to provide. Ironic. But I digress.....

There are legitimate reasons to use the Palm OS emulator other than getting a "free" PDA that can talk to the RTek. I have three RTek-compatible Palms, of which I keep two setup in a known good ready-to-go configuration. But I also have, and often use, the virtual Palm via the emulator. A number of steps are needed to configure it initially, but it was a relatively trouble-free process to get it to communicate with the RTek. Afterwards, even if something goes awry, I can always revert to a known good saved state. Synch is instantaneous, since the communication doesn't go across a real port. You can capture screen shots to save your maps in a visual form. etc.

With my three Palms, I messed around with IR ports, serial ports, USB, USB-to-serial adapters, at least half a dozen PCs, and four different Windows OS's. I even bought an old school Compaq so I could get an antiquated IR protocol to work (only supported by Win 9x apparently). And all that to get Palm Desktop to hotsync.....

Until I bought the RTek, I was hoping to forget my nightmares supporting hotsync and PDAs for sales guys and marketing folks during the dot-bomb days. I never thought I'd spend so much time providing PDA support for myself!

I would preffer to use my laptop any way. The screen is 10X bigger, it is in color, and I dont have to deal with a touch screen, but I haven't had a palm to work with my Rtek yet.

Found my palm...It was hiding inside a turbo blanket behind the seat :lol:

Raksj04 if you really preffer the computer screen check out the Palm emulator workaroudn thread. The cable you have on your rtek can only connect to a computer anyway, so it would be one less thing to buy.

+1

FYI, no promises, but we are revisiting this. With the release of the IOIO ADK board, we are looking into feasibility.

:icon_tup:

Would those of us who currently have a stage 2 be able to get a retrofit to this if it were to happen? I have stage 2 for n/a and will be needing to soon send in a n370 I have laying around for stage 2 treatment, but would gladly wait some amount of time if this is something truly coming to fruition.

All I'm saying is we are looking into it. We have no plans as of yet to actually do anything.

The problem is twofold. The daughterboards we use use parts that are rather dated and they are getting scarce and more expensive. The price of a daughterboard has almost tripled over the past few years. And we all know Palms are ancient.

So the *idea* (as in we have no idea if we'll do it or if it's possible) is that 1: we'd have some sort of converter you could use to connect the standard Rtek serial port to your android device. 2: (and farther down the road) the daughterboard would be updated with new tech and would have this functionality built in.

Guess ill have to just order another battery for this m515 then. This engine is getting harder and harder to start so I tii swap ill be happening soon. Good thing I have been holding a ecu for a while.

What OS versions is everyone using?

Right now on my phone its 2.3.4

^same here

I just upgraded my Palm Pre to a Motorola Admiral and it's got 2.3.5..

Between Logging, Tuning, and just viewing realtime data, which should I try and tackle first? i.e. which do people do the most of?

I am running 2.3.6, although from here on out its going to nexus phones only for the constant firmware updates.

Personally for me logging is the thing I have the most issues with, cable never wants to stay in far enough for a good log on a few minute run.

Right now the plan is to go bluetooth for the existing Rteks. BT Hardware is pretty cheap so Rteks could be retrofitted with a module you plug into the existing connector (plus power...unfortunately, there is no power on the DB9 connector so it will need to be wired in separately).

I got my Motorola Admiral talking with an ECU over bluetooth. Of course it's just sending raw messages back and forth, so it's not very useful. But as a proof of concept, it's a good start. I don't know Java or Android so I have a steep learning curve ahead...

^ RX7PlViewer.jar is a Java app.....

Logging and tuning is what I do most. The low pixel density of the Palm makes it a little inconvenient to review logged data with any degree of precision. I typically copy the log files to an SD card and review them on a PC. But it would be nice to have slightly more sophisticated graphing tools available on the device talking to the RTek.

With respect to tuning, I'd like to see a toggled feature that interpolates values between two cells, resulting in a smooth transition between the two numbers.

(A little off the topic, but I'd like to be able to specify tire size, diff ratio, gear ratio, and known peak whp value from the dyno (alternatively, vehicle weight + frontal area for street tuning) to plot an estimated hp or torque curve from the rpm vs. time data.)

I didn't write it. It was written by a customer.

Yeah with more modern connections like mountable file system, sd cards and internet, I hope to make it much easier to get data in other formats.

Not sure what you mean. The ECU already interpolates between cells. There is no additional resolution that could be set....unless you mean you want to define two to four points in the map (that have at least one cell between them), set those points and have the software calculate and set the cells in between?

Ok, now you are pushing it.. lol. Lets get some basic functionality going before we get to feature requests..

Correct, 2 to 4 non-adjacent cells.

Awesome... Tuning, viewing logs, and a way to output maps/logs to spreadsheets would be pretty handy.

I want to learn Java/Android too, and .net ... Good luck! :icon_tup:

Looks like I have a decent foundation created to manage the connection to the ECU and handle communications...now on to the actual UI.

Hardware Bluetooth dongle is also being developed concurrently.

Looking forward to Android, bluetooth etc, & all Rteks other future improvemnts..
:icon_tup: good luck guys!m:nod:

GOOOO RTEKs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I started with the ECU setup screen... Took a bit longer than I expected, but I have injector config and staging RPM working. This means the communication foundation is working well and development *should* start going a little faster now....maybe...

I'm hoping to have the first PC boards for the BT dongle ordered be the end of next week.

great news man.

So this is working on your palm admiral, with Android 2.3.5? and blue tooth??

damn bro, props!

And to think my Gf has me trying to convince me to get a smart phone, and an android OS at that... guess i'll have too now...

but a few questions...

1. Are you pretty much porting the exact software for the palm, or re writing it all from scratch?

2. I know the answer is you're writing it all from scratch :lol: , does this mean we can design a few necessity from the get go? mainly imputing numbers in to the timing/fuel tables. select more then one box at a time, jump .1 1 or 10 increments...?

3. how can i help?

4. why won't you let me help? :lol:

Yes it's working. When you load the program, it will automatically try to connect to the last connected BT device. Takes about 3-4 seconds to connect up, then maintains the connection.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S...0409085843.jpghttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3...0409085906.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--...0409085924.jpghttps://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-b...0409092807.jpg

Yes I'm starting essentially from scratch. Even though java and C are similar, how you interact with the OS is completely different.

Yeah, now's the time to get your feature requests in. I definitely want to improve the map input interface as well as the logging/playback to take advantage of the higher res screens.

Well as soon as the bluetooth hardware is out, I'd like people to start testing on different devices... I can't afford to buy all kinds of devices so I'll need to rely on others for testing. Unfortunately the Android emulator that comes with the SDK doesn't support bluetooth at all. so my program won't even run on it. I have to do all the dev on the device itself.

I may try to pick up a cheap android tablet for testing.

i'll buy an android tablet TODAY, if it means i can help :D

Lol, well at least wait until I get the BT hardware done. Thanks for your enthusiasm..

Anyone good at making android-esque icons? The tabs need some love and graphic design is not my strong suit...

.png, 72x72? how many? just 3 icons or 4?

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...w=1280&bih=933
http://icons.iconarchive.com/icons/w...tings-icon.png
https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/im...qhfvLiWK84RrQg
https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/im...-a1iyvWFmCx4iN

googled some, just steal the shit out of them :D

I just picked up a Vizio VTAB1008 from Costco for $189. Bluetooth was a little temperamental, but once I got it paired, it works. This is running 2.2, but it already asked me if i wanted to update to 3.2, but I wanted to do the 2.2 tests first as it's one less than the 2.3 on my phone.

sounds sweet, how much code does it take for the rteks to work with bluetooth and communicate with the tablet, i know the android software side is a BIG TASK. or will there just be a serial to bluetooth adapter that works for all current /new rteks? you said something about a dongle... just curious if we'll be sending our ecus back in, or just buy the extra part :D

It will be a dongle you can plug in to all existing Rteks. No need to send the ECU back.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-P...-54-10_873.jpg


It will have power wires coming out of it as well. The DB9 on the ECU has no power in it so you have to supply power to the dongle. Ugly, but it works.

Feature Requests
 

a.) Allow selecting / logging of > 9 parameters so the RTek and 'Roid don't hose each other. i.e., fix this bug.
b.) Fix the AFM temp units. This issue.
c.) Expand the rpm range for AWS, 6PI, and/or VDI outputs so I can activate my shift light at >> 8160 rpm, etc.
d.) Allow a range of values for the rev limiter, rather than just a single setting of 9200.
e.) Interpolate between cells or select multiple and raise by the same or gradually scaled amount, as suggested above.
f.) Implement a smoothing function for the data plots.
g.) Export feature to dump the data directly into a CSV
h.) Estimate and plot power and torque curves from RPM and time data, given a known whp value (i.e. scaling factor).

Wow, I totally missed ever seeing bug a.
b is some mismatch caused by a change in the way we formatted the temp. The viewer is not in sync with the palm. Now that I'm learning java, I'll be able to make updates to the log viewer and get that fixed.
C and D are features for the ECU itself, not the logger app.
E I think you or someone mentioned before..def on the list.
F you mean for the maps?
G definitely
H Sounds good.

Yeah, I can repro at will.
If the PLViewer's X Y Scatter plot function could be fixed, I would be excited. But before we get to that, yes, finish the 'Roid app first.
Indeed. ;)
No, I mean the data plots, when displayed at high resolution (well, at least better than the Palm's) are frequently noisy. Much of it is due to parameters being internally represented as discrete values inside the ECU (e.g. IAT, AFM, timing advance). Some sensors are more noisy than others (e.g. MAP, some widebands). And a lot of it is just plain electronic s/n issues. Would be nice to have a toggle on the data charts to turn on smoothing globally or for a given parameter.

Awesome!

I just ordered the 2.1 upgrade a month ago or so, and I have ICS on my Asus tablet if you want some extra testing. I assume just a 12v wire to power the dongle? or something else?

or a use for the cig lighter hah?

I just got POSE working with my laptop and this comes along. XD

Another feature I'd like is to make the all the solenoids trigger by RPM, like the EGR solenoid. Maybe in a future build? :)

I'd like an offline mode to edit maps to later load onto the ECU.

Any idea what kind of price points you are looking at? Are you going to do an app on the app store?

I do like the idea of the bluetooth being powered by the cig lighter so I can turn it of and on at well, rather then leave it on all the time.

What would the purpose of turning it off be?

I still need to get a final cost on the hardware. I expect it to be under $50.

Cant wait for this to come out. I was just wondering what devices would be used to run this program. Is it just android phones/ tablets or can an iphone/ ipad be used. Thanks