banzaitoyota

so if they were ground wrong, what is JHB going to do about it?

now

iTrader: (1)

I would say its up to jhb, but i would guess they would offer to redo them.
not sure about the subsequent damages to other parts and their costs
because they were not returned to have the problem solved rather being
ground somewhere else.
what i can say is my housings were not 100% to spec, this is why i have
not completed my review, i sent them back and they are redoing them
at no cost to me.
my only complaint is the time it has taken so far, but because i "was" in no real rush its not that big a deal to me.
matt

ScrappyDoo

iTrader: (7)

I've got 4000km on my S4TII cermet b coated housings and have had no issues yet. I am hitting the dyno on June 12th and I will compression test it then too.

This thread is scaring me, but I find it hard to blame JHB when someone else has performed work on the housings. It is not good that the housings were out of spec for two different customers but I think NOW has taken the best approach of giving JHB a chance to fix it. It is how you deal with your problems that sets companies apart.

Japan2LA

iTrader: (256)

Damn, I hated to hear that the 2 different sets of housing where out of spec and the the 12A turbo housings died at only 700 miles.. I was considering getting a set done and running them.. I am now just going to spend the cash and buy new housing from Mazda.. I am setting up a 20B motor and cant not afford to build the motor and then have it die after tuning and break-in. I am already way over budget and dont want something like this to happen to me... Sorry guys this sounds like it might be to good to be true...

now

iTrader: (1)

I am not really worried about the service and product jhb is offering they have lots of
housings on the road and no one else seems to be reporting problems.
After all i am putting ceramic apex seals in this motor which are worth almost as much as
all the other parts of this rebuild combined.
I will be sure to start a new thread with what is going into my motor
and how it is performing.
This will take me another 2 to 3 weeks to get done and put into the car but I will post pictures
and measurements of the housings and ceramic seals etc. that this motor will be built with
as i get them together.
later
matt

Japan2LA

iTrader: (256)

It has been over a month...this thread just died?????

now

iTrader: (1)

still waiting before i make any comments
but hope to comment soon, within two weeks.
matt

APEXL8T

Man the time down and tims motor loss. All this R&D is great if it were free. Good thing all the shipping back and forth and the R&R with rebuild is free too.
Let the guys who sell it do all the R&D at their own expense. Its been a while maybe I have missed something in this thread.Time is money too.Thats what new product manufactures do before they get the public involved or they let the sellect public use at no expense for feedback.

T88Rx7

cant wait to see the outcome, wonder if anyone used there apex seal

timrxmotors

Couldn't agree more,they should do the R&D,not the paying customer.Jhb say it is all my fault,no surprise,but I really don't care,I was willing to try it,that I did and have learned from it.The cermet coating is not as good as the chrome,and the bits from the wearing away of the coating quickly destroy everything,even my oil pump was scored.That is what happens inside a high boost high rpm engine anyway.My engine is now stronger than ever,standard 12A housings,dyno tomorrow.

timrxmotors

Picture of a side plate,was perfect.

now

iTrader: (1)

is that a coated side plate?

DRVFST

I'm new to this group, and stumbled upon this thread, and find it quite disapointing. I've been running JHB housings in my builds and in my personal car for over 4 years, even before they hit the public market. I have nothing but great things to say. JHB has been great in offering me loads of help whenever needed.
My personal car is running over 300hp at the rear wheels in a cermet B coating on the housings, and cermet A side plates. Car runs like hell all the way to 9000rpm. I have disassembled it twice now just to check, and i have seen no signs of wear other than on the apex seals, which is what should be wearing.

Seems to me that if you were to take any performance part from any manufacturer and tried to modify it, you would be S.O.L. What was JHB's response to your parts failing?

I was lucky enough to get in early with JHB and be involved in the initial testing and R&D back in 2001. I have no problems standing behind JHB's product and customer service.

I've noticed an increase in power by doing nothing more than changing to those cermet parts. My operating temperature dropped significantly, so much so , that it never got hot enough to heat my car in the winter. My gas mileage increased slightly. The original test housings, the first set off the line, are still in use and still running strong, almost 5 years and 25 000 high revving, hard, ABUSED kilometers. If something was to let go, i tell you, i would have been the first to find a weak point!

APEXL8T

one post, new to group. 4 days in and outstanding raves about a single vender whom you just happen to be involved with all these years on this particular thread. Coincidental.
I dont have an opinion on JHB ...just the process that Toyo Kogyo couldnt do.

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

Good to hear....I have just recently came across JHB and have already built 1 motor using their housings and in the process of another. They seem like good guys to deal with and I will most definatly send housings their way when I build motors in the future.

now

iTrader: (1)

I have nothing bad to say about marc / jhb
there have been a few issues with the housings that i was to build my motor
with a it is being taken care of by jhb.
until i get them back i cant comment.
but i will be sure to give a fair review once i get them.
the issues that i talk about are very minor if these housings were to be used
in any other application they would have been fine.
most people would have never noticed the issue and it wouldn't have been a problem
but because this motor will be built with ceramics I wanted perfect, or real close
to perfect which marc said i will have soon.
I am really looking forward to using these housings! and if I had any question about
if they were any good I wouldn't be building this motor with very expensive ceramic apex seals.
matt

now

iTrader: (1)

I also agree that grinding a housing to spec on ones own making the coating thinner
than the min thickness is just asking the coating to fail.
they should have been returned to jhb (like i did) to have the problem fixed.
matt

couturemarc

Know your history! Toyo Kogyo: aka Mazda used these types of coatings in R & D in the late 60's and early 70's, cermet type coatings were initially developped to solve the wear and durability problems (chatter) in rotary engines because the chrome technology of the day was not advanced enough to provide the proper characteristics for a rotary.

The end result (back in the 70's) was that the cermets were too expensive and lasted too long and also had not been tested and developped to the same extent as chrome. As the engineers on this forum will testify, automakes design parts for a certain life cylce, they are intended to fail and be replaced after a certain "pre-determined" life. A part that last too long does not make the company money, bottom line.

On top of all this, there was initially (and possible still) only one plant that plated and finished rotor housings. This means one large capital investement in only one coating method and they have stuck with that choice and furhter developped it over the years.

There is no advantage for Mazda to offer a longer lasting part to the public at a higher internal cost to them, nevermind the huge investment to set up a second coating process.... especially considering the relative low production numbers.

When it comes to racing, durability and wanting nothing but the best Mazda chose to put cermet coatings in the R26B LeMans winning racecar. So, its not that Mazda cannot do this... they just have absolutly no reason to want to unless they need a competitive edge.

As for us, our goal was to offer a refurbishing service using this high end racing technology at a COST EFFECTIVE price that most builder can afford. Take it or leave it just do your homework before making claims such as mazda not being able to do this.

89t295k

Wouldn't it be easier to make the entire housing out of chrome or some other better material ? Then it would not flake off.

Then u could make custom ports too.

timrxmotors

It wasn't coated,but it appears to be now.Everything was contaminated by the coating that wore away,the parts have the same colour as the coating,looks like stainless steel.

timrxmotors

I do agree,but to spec is to spec,that is why I had them ground.If the engine wasn't going to see 10,000rpm,then I wouldn't have bothered.
I was concerned that if I sent my housings back I wouldn't see them again.Where's yours?

BNA_ELLIS

I been trying get hld of you all day where you been?
i don't know if your mobile was off as all the bombing going on down here, mad ethe mobile network all jammed. I got the speedo convertors/delimiters in now I will post them in the morning along with your vehicle docs, and give you a call at breakfast time for a chin wag. Lots to discuss.

Yours truly your trainee engine builder

now

iTrader: (1)

my housings should be in my hands very soon.
I would rather wait and do it right once than have to redo it.
matt

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Anxiously awaiting a review.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Wow very good post (makes a lot of since) however, there are some things that Mazda could have done better at the cost of longer term reliability.

Off topic example: The 13b engine found in the GSL-SE is still the more bulletproof NA engine Mazda has ever built. Why? This engine has the factory 3mm 2 piece apex seals that really don't wear out. You compare that to Mazda's useless experiment to run 3 piece 2mm seals in the later 13b's. Why, because these seals are suppose to seal better. Well they do but at the cost of long term reliability. The top seal piece will wear down over time and become very brittle with age. A thin brittle seal will break a lot easier than a thick brittle seal. It's no wonder the NA 13b engines found in the 2nd gen don't last as long.

Anyways it's funny how Mazda went back to the more durable/longer lasting 2 piece design.

Now back on topic.