Real Costs of racing
 

So I just completed my first semi-serious year with the race car.

My true costs of racing, assumes you have te following:

A) Truck (2000 Toyota Tundra)
B) Trailer (14X7 open, new beginning of year 2K out the door)
C) Legally built & prepped race car, starting the year ready to go (Pro7 (FB) Built for Norcal NASA racing, brand new)

Firstly, the events & number of hours (in paren. & are estimated) my car ran:
January: Todd Ho Track day/NCDA (2 hours)
February: NASA HPDE @ Infineon (1.5 hours)
May: NASA HPDE @ Thunderhill (3 hours)
May: NASA HPDE @ Infineon (1.5 Hours)
June: NASA HPDE @ Reno Fernley (3 hours)
August: NASA HPDE @ Infineon (1.5 hours)
October: SCCA Super School @ Streets Of Willow Springs (5 hours)
October: SCCA Double regional race @ Buttonwillow (2 hours)
November: Nasa HPDE @ Thunderhill (3 hours)

Total: 9 events (22.5 hours)
Our final expenses, including track accommodations, excluding food) and race car expenses:
Hotels $925
Gas: $1600
Entry Fees: $2200
(We live 20 minutes from Infineon. and camped @ the SCCA events- no hotel costs)
Race car related items:
One new set of Toyo1 185/60/13 full treads - new beginning of the year ($450) <-- Full disclosure I have two set of 185's. The second set ran 1.5 hours total. There is that much left on the 1st set and they will be done.
Mounting, remounting for flipping (flipped twice + initial mount) & balance ($150)
brakes: 1 front set of hawk blues (really a half set of blues & and a half set of blacks ($95)
Front brake hose 6 feet of 3 inch silicone - ($60)
1 set of front tie rods ($50)
1 transmission rebuild first one (Stock 100Kmile unit) lasted 17 hours. death was complete lack of 3rd gear synchro. Replaced with ($40) used tranny, it ran the last 5 hours, 3rd gear synchros are starting to go.
1 case of Ford HD brake fluid ($100)
5 cases of 20W-50 NAPA brand Oil ($85)
5 litres of premix; Motul, spector, other ($100)
220 Gallons of gas ; Shell, Chevron 87 octane ($550)
12 quarts of Redline Gear lube for Tranny & Rear end ($100)
4 cans of Honda Bright (quick detail) ($40)
2 set of front wheel bearings & seals ($80)
1 set of front discs ($50) - rock auto cheapie replacements. Those that died were whatever were on the car whne we bought it.
1 dead 12A. Replaced with junkyard motor ($800) Motor was replaced after the first Infineon event where the car ran 1.5 hours. It died @ the end of day one, so my daily driver Protege5 was brought in as the back up vehicle for day two. It ran 19 hours, so its about $42 an hours to run the motor.

Thus far I have omitted costs from parts bought twice (tires, brake pads), the spares I own (front control arms, strut tubes, rotors calipers, 16 wheels, etc)

Totals:
Truck (17K over 4 years)
Non-race car specifics costs: $4,725
Racecar related: $2,650
Total minus truck: $7,375

Now, the costs to prep for next year:
stianless braided clutch line: $30
slave cylinder (died last session @ Tunderhill yesterday) : $35
Case of brake fluid: $100
Case of Oil: $17.50
5 quarts of gear lube: $45
13*7 rims (for SoCal events): $350
Mount @ balance my used 205's: $60
used 205 to purchase: $260
Tranny Rebuild: $350 (?)
Motor (blowing smoke form worn out oil seals, and hard to start cold): $1500
Alignment & corner weighting: $450
Battery relocation (for Socal events): $100
Proportioning valve + install: $200
new shaved 185s (for Norcal Events): $500
Dyno tune: $500
Canopy (Died @ Thunderhill last time out) $200

total to prep for next year: $4292.50
The total prep cost includes fully prepping to a different specification to run the socal events.

The important line:
Total costs for one year of semi serious racing, starting with a fresh car and ending with a fresh car: $11,667.50

Several important points:

A)My point is not to discourage anyone from going racing, its simply to point out alot of the hidden costs.

B) Next year our costs will likely drop, as we won't be in hotels at all. We will also be racing, which is cheaper than HPDE (at the level @ which we participated)

C)We don't go racing on a shoe string budget when it comes to the car. we skimped on the comfort areas to make the car competitive.

D) Who is ready for next year?

Marcus
Http://www.miller-motorsports.com
#67 Pro7 CSCC/ NASA Norcal/ SFRSCCSA

That's a very detailed list, very nice to have for comparison purposes. Thanks a lot.

-s-

Look on the bright side: your full season of racing cost less than a single Grand Am Cup event!

Don't remind me. :) That's where I'd like to end up, 5-7 years down the road....

Marcus

I figure $1000 per weekend to race barring major mechanical items. This inlcudes travel expenses, hotels, entry, ammortized costs of tires and brake pads. When transmissions and engines start breaking the cost obviously goes up. All of that is for a front running ITS 2nd gen.

Nice to see a breakdown of the costs. Your a brave guy to add it all up. :D

Exactly. If I had kept track of all the money I spent I would of quit a long time ago. I quit keeping receipts for the IT car when I got to $10k. I was thinking a couple weeks ago that if I had never gotten in to racing and had put just some of that money away I could have a Ford GT or something like that sitting in the garage right now. Oh well....

It's amazing how different racers come up with the same approach. I quit keeping track of racing costs after I went past $30,000 in 2 years. Now that I have been racing for over 7 years with the RX7, a ton of the initial costs have been amortized down to almost nothing.

What I budget for is the same as C. Ludwig, $1,000 per weekend to run my RX7. After reading this thread I talked to a number of different guys racing everything from a GT 1 style Camaro to an IT Rabbit and all of us say it costs between $1,000 to $7,500 a weekend in running costs but no one really keeps track.

I bet if I really took a count of the actual costs it would cost around that amount. I don't want to take an actual count as I don't really want a paper trail that my better half could read. Also If I really took a count of what I have spent in total, car, tow vehicle, trailer, canopy, tools, at track support equipment, welding equipment, machining stuff, spares, etc..., I would have a hard time reconciling my fun now versus future financial security or a couple of Vipers, lol. Man, all you have to understand is that racing is just an incredibly efficient way of converting $$$$ into noise.

"If you have to ask, you can't afford it."

I do believe the crack about racing just being an efficient way to convert $$ into noise is going in my away message.

-=Russ=-

Yup :D

Laa laa laa... I can't heaaaaaar you... :D

No idea how much we've gone through in the last few years of learning how to run an ITA car. Dunwanna know... plausible deniability when my mom asks "and you two spent *how* much on racing this year? I thought the costs were going to go down once you got the car built..."

It's just money. If it weren't supposed to get spent, they wouldn't call it money.

That's the best quote I've heard in a long time. :D Care if I use it in some sig lines?

Go for it guys. Use the line for all it is worth. My wife says it to me all the time. Usually after I fire up the car to load it on the trailer. A credit would be necessary, lol.

I kept a spreadsheet of all my expenses but I haven't kept up with it for the past few years although I do still have the receipts and I intend to add them to the spreadsheet "someday".

My first year for an ITS type club racer was $12,000 for 10 weekends counting every car related penny. The following years have averaged a little over $5,000 per year for 10 weekend seasons. (the average includes two $7,000 years for blown engines)

I do not have a trailer, I drive to the events (and I almost always drive home) but I have been able to land a few club season championships. In SCCA I would probably be mid pack - nothing remarkable good or bad.

It aint exactly cheap but it doesn't have to be expensive.

ed

I was just sitting around thinking about it last night, (the day after my season ended) as I ponder where to go for the future... Its either Pro7 or Endurance racing for next year, but I'd like to be in Spec Miata the following year, I think...
The Honda Challenge guys appear to be reaching critical mass, and some more support for the series could be a major boon... Alternatively, a 2nd gen ITS car would be some fun, if the E36 gets the lead trophy it deserves.

sigh; so many choices.


Marcus

Yep! If I counted everything that it took to make it to the track, I'd be here for days. The equipment, maintenance on the truck, building the car, buying parts twice, etc....
I think its just end of year blues.... I'm already scheming on what to upgrade for next year.

Marcus

1
 

holey crap...


You can race for that cheap! That is better than kart racing and probably more fun. You don;t even want to know what we charge the folks in our series :eek:

Were you at Vegas on the 5th?

Don't forget were buying used trannies for $50 and entire parts cars for $150.

What does a tranny cost for a formula mazda?

I would *love* to go Formula Mazda racing, and in fact, that was part of the original plan, until they changed the pro car...

I haven't been out to Vegas.

CPA - I got jipped, my spare chassis was $250 :D

Marcus

Doesnt the FM use a VW air cooled bug trans?

those figure sounds about right for local regional races. I was spending anywhere from $800-1400 a weekend when I used to race SCCA IT class. those were the good ol'times. Now I just go and help instruct with the local driver's ed and run the track for FREE. :)

Sorta. Actually, they use Websters, which are pretty much a copy of Hewland Mk9s, which are based on the bug tranny case, but turned upside-down and backwards and packed with straight cut dog gears. Still VW cases though, but not (of course) VW prices anymore.

Question:

Do the races you're going to have prizes?

Assuming you actually won every time, would you actually be able to make up your losses, or are these simply for fun races?

Only a few top level professional races have prize money, and the payout on those pro races is only a fraction of the cost of entering and competing the race.
In the USA, only a tiny percentage of people make a profit at road racing; the vast majority of us do it just because we love it.
________________________

Poverty is owning a race car

Money in racing does not come from "prizes". The entire team is supported by a group of sponsors and all the expenses and salaries of the team members is payed from that.The sponsor is where the money comes from.

Don't confuse this with the fact that because a car has sponsers on it that the car is supported. Many cases that just is not the truth, or at least not to the extent you would think.

The far, far majority of drivers, owners and crew members spend their own money to go race. They never see that money again but nobody has figured out how to race for free yet :)

Who was it that said (paraphrased): "Sure you can make a small fortune racing. You just have to start out with a large fortune to begin with!"

:-)

-b

The one I recall goes "In order to make a small fortune in racing first you must start with a large one".

Then there's "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"

Still my favorite quote from an announcer (I can't remember who) said about a driver who had just slid off the track and destroyed his car in the wall "He got into the corner and ran out of talent". Ouch! :eek:

Well it's in Carroll Smith's book, I don't know if he said it first???

Actually, Mazda, Khumo, Hoosier and other's have strong contingency programs. Also are SCCA division gives you tow money for the runoffs. It's about a grand.
To get tow money you have to just be in the top 3 cars in your division that actually go to the runoffs.

Will you make any money, NO but you can pay for a small part of your expenses.

I like this one "If you can't afford to push the car off a cliff and build another one, without thinking about it, then you can't afford to go racing"

Can someone explain to me just how being a "professional race driver" can make one money?

Is the professional part simply the driver being paid by the sponsor (and maybe a little prize money), who is in it not to make back money from the winnings, but simply to advertise?

So I guess the whole point of professional racing (well, the racing part, not the watching part) isn't to make money from winnings, it's to provide an advertisement medium, plus make money from merchandizing... hehehe...

I guess it's not like the people who put on events could make money if their profits were everything they made from ticket sales and entry fees minus prize money...

my last kart racing season (first year running Rotax) went something like this:

- bought kart for $4k
- $50 raceday fees - 10 races
- $35 practice day fees - 15 practice days
- 2 sets of slicks all season - $300
- gas: ~$20 per day
- rebuilt motor cuz it blew midseason $1k
- about $100 on carb cleaner, lube, brake fluid, zip ties and shop rags

i think that was it. Previous season was 3rd season running KT100 with kart/motor package purchased for $2k used.
- motor top end refresh $800
- clutch rebuild $30
- 2 sets of slicks for $300
- about $100 on carb cleaner, lube, brake fluid, zip ties and shop rags
- $50 raceday fees - 10 races
- $35 practice day fees - 15 practice days
- gas: ~$20 per day

Lots of bang for the buck in kart racing!

Yep. Its a form of marketing. The racing is pure competition, but it really an exercise in marketing for the sponsor....

Marcus

I don;t know the price for the old mazda tranny's. Lot's of used parts out there though since the new cars have come out. I'm thinking the older Mazda is the car to have these days though. Used ones are selling cheap and fast. The new tranny (which I am accustomed to) is around 6 grand with gears (six speed sequential)

Yah the pro car changed things abit....racers are still getting used to the cost. But that only makes the older cars more affordable. Let me know if you want to go rent someones car for a weekend. Maybe I'll give up some setup sheets in return for rx-7 tips.

My dream project is dropping a Renesis into a 3rd gen with the motec racemap/ecu(traction control=) from the new formula mazda....I know the racecars well but still learning the streetcars.

which is the most economical class

Your first mistake
 

Is ever adding up the cost, thats for the obsessive compulsive, you could/should spend more!
JLS

Your first mistake
 

Is ever adding up the cost, thats for the obsessive compulsive, you could/should spend more!

Its like adding up the cost of children, SH-T makes my racing budget look puny, lets see full time wife, food, cloths, health insurance, private schools...makes me tired just thinking about it!



JLS

what do you guys do for jobs:) Im not sure Ill be able to make enough welding:( Ill only be able to attend 2-3 time trial events a year:(

I sell Invisible Fence™ Systems and build race cars for people to afford mine...

Well if Im able to possibly start my own fabrication business someday, Id love to build race cars. I will be starting with a spec miata team this winter, so Im hoping the experience will help with the money making factor in the future

Most economical class? ITC or some regioanl offshoot- Pro7 for norcal.
What do I do for a living? Data Operations Manager for a Financial Services company. (Google- Master Data Management)
My costs have gone way up.
I built the ultimate killer ITA First gen; ~15K; wrecked it and sold it. I now have a Spec Miata. Basic 1.6 car, wiht some demon tweaks on their way. I predict spending about 20K on it next year.

Still have my Pro7; its gotten a new windshield and run a couple events this year. I've given up adding up costs. lets just say "a lot"

M.

my take on the phrase is:
dont race anything you cant afford to push off a cliff...and make it strong enough that you survive if you do.......
how about: *hit happens...and on a race track *hit happens quickly.....

PS: i would be real happy if i only spent $1000-1200 per race for my ITS car.....

You got it. People around me never seem to understand that. If my pro7 or SM was crushed into a 3X3X3 cube tomrrow, I'd shrug....

oddly enough, this thread made me want to listen to montly Crew, lol. "Kick start my heart..."

anyway, im a bit evnvious of people like Yamada-San, and Nobuteru Taniguchi who get $$$$ fo just being there, lol.

So true, by the time you realize you messed up it's too late.

I looked at what I spent in 2005, and it's crazy. I'll get it in a presentable form one of these days and post it.

Don't ever add it up. If you are married this tabulation will haunt you forever. I can tell you I have spent in excess of 50% of my gross income in some years. I work hard and live modestly to go racing. The true costs are staggering and if you can market yourself then you can offset some of your costs. Marketing and promoting yourself can only go so far in amatuer racing. Study hard and get yourself a good paying job with flexible hours is how most of us have done it.

Im getting married this spring, and Ive just finished the car for the season. Im afarid for the next 10 years, ill only be able to attend 2 events a season. Maybe some small autox's

That's cheap. A Porsche DP 935 twin turbo has to be rebuilt every 30 hours at the cost of 50,000. That's just the engine.

If my job paid a 1/2 million a year I would probably race a car needing a new $50,000 engine every 30 hours. Unfortunately my job pays a bit less at the moment :)