racing in washigton
 

Hey guys I live around seattle and I would like to take my car on a road course. I know Pacific Raceways has one but I dont know what races i can compete in. Do you guys know of some others near by and the classes i can run my GSL-SE in?

Racing requires a lot of safety equipment, a fire suit, a cage, experience, a racing licence and more. I assume that you have none, so what you'll want to do is go to a driving school. Try the BMWCCA, PCA, the Alpha club or others for reasonably priced schools there. There's also a track in Portland and one in Spokane, but the future of the Spokane track is unknown at the moment.

Man, you are in PO... do you ever go the Bremerton Sports Car Club events? They do autocrossing and track days, a great way to get started.

^^^More info please. Is that the one around bremerton raceway?

Google is your friend:

http://www.bscc.net/

-b

I took a race school from IRDC and had an awesome time. It was pretty affordable I think under $300. They will take any street car as long as you pass tech inspection. There was even a stock DA Integra there with me. Lots of fun. This was at Pacific Raceways.

I'd advise you to go to a regular driving school, not a race school. Learn to drive fast on the track well, then take a race school if that's the direction you want to go. At a driving school the passing will be more controlled and you'll be in a group with other novices, making it a safer, better learning environment.

Heck, the Slush Series begin in the next couple of weeks. Just look at the Western Washington Sports car Council.

im thinking ahead right know because i have 3 months left of wyotech then ill be home so im just doing a little research. yeah i do wanna race its all ive ever thought about so thats settled, just trying to fugure out what kind.

Well, if you are back by March BSCC has a novice drivers school that is a great way to get your feet wet.

Hope to see you there!

ill be back the 22nd so is it too late?

Sorry Bud, the Novice School is on March 2.
I sure that there will be some other schools and events you can get into to.

Check out www.icscc.com. They do not currently have the 2008 schedule up on their site. They run driving schools, HPDE, as well as full blown racing. They are at Pacific, Portland, Bremerton, Spokane, and Mission; basically all over the NW. In my opinion they have a good novice program; better than the local SCCA regions.

I know there was a thread about this a couple of weeks ago in the NW section.

Check out www.icscc.com. They do not currently have the 2008 schedule up on their site. They run driving schools and HPDE, pretty much all summer. They are at Pacific, Portland, Bremerton, Spokane, and Mission; basically all over the NW. In my opinion they have a good novice program; better than the local SCCA regions.

I know there was a thread about this a couple of weeks ago in the NW section.

IRDC uses a safe passing zone, I actually have a picture of it set up. It was very nice being on the track with a mixed crowd of drivers, some with experience, some with none. IRDC racing school is basically there to teach people the skills needed to begin in novice racing, my instructor was very supportive of me getting my novice license and getting into racing but I wasn't so sure about it in my WRX. With an RX-7, count me in!

Here is the picture of the passing zone, it felt very safe when driving.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...rackday019.jpg

I still think that a driving school, not a race school is the way to go at first. At a race school there's apt to be some experienced drivers there too, in full on race cars. At the driving schools you'll be on track with only drivers of comparable skill in a relaxed atmosphere where you can learn at your own pace with no pressure. I think that you should really be an advanced level student before moving on to racing, then you have more attention to focus on traffic management, racecraft, passing and so on, and you won't be worrying about your driving.

You may think you can drive well, but you probably suck just like all the other novices. Here's an article written by jay dub from the Miata.net forum that perfectly describes the new driver experience.

TWS 11-16-04

Impressions from a middle age “first timer” at the driver’s education school

I wasn’t really sure what I was getting into but I wanted to try my car at a higher speed. BMW CCA has always put on great autocrosses so what the heck – let’s go for a high speed driver’s instruction weekend.

After the first 2 sessions, I realized how poor a driver I was.
Basically, I sucked!
1. I couldn’t remember the course – was the next turn left or right, was it a hard brake or no brake, uphill or downhill. I wasn’t even sure I was on the same course each lap.
2. My field of vision was bullet narrow
3. I never glanced at a gauge or my speedometer
4. I didn’t remember to how to breathe
5. I braked too late
6. I braked too hard
7. I braked too early
8. I didn’t brake enough
9. I didn’t brake in a straight line
10. The only way I knew how to hit the gas was hard
11. I didn’t know the meaning of the word “smooth”
12. All the apexes were playing hide and seek and I was losing
13. I never saw a course worker (unless they were pointed out to me)
14. Cars behind me broke my concentration
15. Cars in front of me broke my concentration
16. No cars around me broke my concentration
17. I wondered if anybody would notice if I didn’t come back for the next session
18. I forgot how to shift
19. I didn’t know how to steer
20. I wondered if I would survive the weekend
21. And finally, I learned a new phrase “pucker factor” through experience

There were a few things that went right in the first two sessions
1. My instructor (Saint Steve McCool) didn’t abandon me no matter how many reasons I gave him.
2. My instructor didn’t swear
3. Thumbs up and 3 & 9 does work!
4. I didn’t hit anything
5. I didn’t kill us
6. I didn’t injure us (unless you include my ego)
7. No off-course sight seeing adventures
8. The car didn’t break
9. I didn’t see anyone pointing at my car in the pits (that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, I just didn’t see it)
10. I found other “first timers” to lick my wounds with
11. And finally, I didn’t cry – well maybe a little whimpering


The last two sessions on Saturday were pretty much as the first two except
1. I remember taking a breath on the straight away one time
2. Fourth gear became my friend. It forced me to become a little bit smoother. I could do the whole course in one gear.
3. Slower and smoother really can be faster
4. I started to “associate” some of the course with the course map
5. I didn’t worry as much about speed
6. I started to remember “some” of the turns
7. Then I forgot some of the turns I thought I knew
8. Consistency was something I could discuss but I had no clue how to achieve.
9. Absolutely no car that I followed took the same line I was supposed to take. This turn out to be true all weekend.
10. I started to pick up some reference points on the track. Instructor Steve only had to point these out 15 or 20 times before I started to pick up a few.
11. Each lap I went around 1 or 2 turns correctly. These were never the same turns.
12. I stopped thinking about slipping away and concentrated on surviving until the end of the day
13. Instructor Steve and I were still on speaking terms
14. The thought of an “adult beverage” after leaving the track sounded better as the day wore on.
15. When I asked Instructor Steve if he was going to return and be my instructor on Sunday, he said he’d be back thus ruining my planned excuse of blaming him for anything my new instructor didn’t like!

The first 2 sessions Sunday morning
1. First, I’m surprised Instructor Steve really does show up again.
2. Unlike Saturday morning, I had a better idea of what the hell I had gotten myself into – now it was a matter finding out if I was a hopeless case or could I improve.
3. I remembered seeing parts of the course from the day before
4. I got a “thumbs up” from Instructor Steve on a turn or two.
5. I started telling Instructor Steve what I did wrong. I did a lot of talking.
6. When I did something wrong, that usually set me up for screwing up the next turn. I must learn to think of what’s ahead not what I just did.
7. My consistency meter came off flat-line but was still on support systems
8. Instructor Steve had to help with the steering wheel less and less
9. I found I couldn’t pass a high horsepower vehicle in front of us on the back straight away no matter how well we set him up in the turns. Rocking back and forth in the seat didn’t help.
10. It finally dawns on me that there are parts of the course that should be run while maintaining speed. My previous idea was to either be on the gas or on the brake.
11. I started to think I knew what the next turn was going to be and how I had to get set up. Knowing and actually doing were still many times worlds apart.
12. I was able to get the oil light to flicker on when I hit “Larry, Moe and Curly” correctly. Yes, that means I actually did look at my gauges once in a while. My field of vision opened up.
13. I didn’t have thoughts of sneaking away.

The final 2 sessions on Sunday
1. There were sections of eerie quiet when Instructor Steve didn’t have to say or was it yell anything. It was kind of spooky. I wasn’t sure if it was because he was exhausted, lost his voice, had a heart attack or I wasn’t screwing up so there wasn’t anything to say.
2. I got some more thumbs up from Instructor Steve and a few “Yeahs!” thus leading to my helmet starting to get tight.
3. I think I hit every corner correct at least once. Don’t think I improved that much. This was never done all in the same lap and usually not more than 2 or 3 in a row.
4. I had a few laps that were fun. Things clicked together. I saw more, I took breaths, I sometimes saw the corner workers, and I knew where I had to be next turn.
5. I started to use 3rd gear again.
6. I started to screw up using 3rd gear again.
7. I looked forward to the next lap to see if I could get through it cleaner than the lap I was on. More laps than not this didn’t happen.
8. I enjoyed myself.
9. My overall speed increased significantly
10. I realized I was having a good time
11. I also realized Instructor Steve was a good teacher and definitely more patient that I am.
12. I started to think about doing this again!
13. I realize laps are like golf. What? There’s never a “perfect” lap just like there’s never a perfect round of golf. You can look back and always find something you could have done different. My quest will now be for “good” lines.
14. And finally, I still have a long, long way to go but I can proudly say now “I suck less!”

I did a 2 day combined BMWCCA and PCA school at Pacific Raceways and it was well run. I've also been to a number of BMWCCA schools at Spokane and they are also excellent.

I also recommend the IRDC school. My son and I took this two day course a couple years ago. The first day is classroom, the second day is on-track. This is a driving school... not a race. The best part is they assign an experienced driver to you as a one on one instructor for the full day at the track. They ride with you when you're on track and they are available for discussion when you're waiting for your next session. You can do this in any street car. My son did it in his bone stock SA and I did it in my Mercedes 230... there was also a mini pickup and a Honda Element on track. There is no "side by side" driving except for a simulated race start that is optional at the end of the day. If you're interested, when you complete the course, you are approved for an ICSCC race license and can begin racing in the novice class at the next ICSCC race event. Or you can just come away with some very good high performance driving training... ready for your next HPDE or autocross... or you'll be ready for the next Cadillac that pulls out in front of you at a stoplight.

I was looking into the IDRC driver training in March, which would qualify me for an ICSCC license, but should I be looking into something like an SCCA novice license, or are they interchangable?

Conference puts on "driving schools", you will be in a very controlled environment with an experienced racing driver in the car with you. You will be grouped with similar cars and similar skill level drivers. They will not let you get out of control, there will be no side by side "racing". If you do not follow the instructors commands, they will throw you, not off the track, but out of the facility.
This club loves to have fun, but they are very serious about on track safety.

Oregon Region SCCA recognizes comparable level Conference licenses. I believe The NW Region of SCCA does as well, they run races at Pacific.
I would race Conference starting out, I think they have a better novice program than SCCA. You will be in a dedicated novice race group for at least three races, which is a good thing.

anyone have any ideas how much the IDRC class costs?

Under $300 if I remember correctly. Or right around there.

Last year a 2 day weekend school at Spokane with the BMWCCA was $400, a great deal as it's a Sat/Sun school, giving you the most benefit for the effort of going there. You'll learn more in a 2 day school than you will in two 1 day schools I think, as there's an immediate follow up with some time to digest the lessons of the previous day.

Anyway, it sounds like my assumptions about the IDRC schools were wrong, I just saw it being described as a racing school and I thought it'd be a lot more like other racing schools that I've read about and less like a club run driving school. Anyway, the BMWCCA and PCA still put on excellent schools at Pacific, so that's a great option too if the IDRC dates don't work for you.

You can race in ICSCC (IRDC) with a SCCA license but you can't race in SCCA with a ICSCC license. The novice program is very weak in SCCA compared to ICSCC. Usually there aren't enough new novices in SCCA to run a program in the Seattle area so the novice school is in Portland.

This is an email sent out by Team Continental, an ICSCC member club, it lists school dates in Portland. You can follow their link on the www.ICSCC.com page or search for Team Continental.

Jimby, that is the reason I quick dealing with SCCA. In the past SCCA made racers cover up/tape over over clubs stickers to get through tech. No wonder they are hurting for new members.

^^^schweet. so ive been pokin around and it seems like scca ep class level 1 is what i feel would be a good level to build my car to so. who here is familair with the mods i can do?

These are the things i think i can do. corect me if im wrong

SP my engine
P&P my intake and throtle body
Full race exhaust-db level?
High compression rotars
Cryogen internals
remove emissions-required
Any clutch/flywheel combo-remain stock size
Any shock and spring combo
Any brake setup-without touching rotors and calipers
Aluminum driveshaft
Any diff ratio
Remove interior
1pc race seat-required
Fuel cell-required, limit on capacity?
Replace tie rods with rod ends
any wheel/tire combo-dot approved
aluminum radiator/e fan

Ok now for the stuff im unshure of.

Megasquirt
Tubular cross members
Tubular adjustible control arms-camber
Fender flares- bolt on
Naca air duct
Roll cage-dont think ill need it though
Do i have to weld up sunroof?
What can i gusset?

ok so what other big things did i miss? I read the rule book but that shits a little confusing and very vague

The only other big item you missed is a big bank account. Especially if you are going production racing.

My advice would be to buy a car, and learn how to drive. If you are looking to build a car, check out www.DGEMotorsports.com he is in Vancouver WA, but he can hook you up with all your fabricating needs. Lots of racers from the Seattle area bring their cars down to him.

Before you get carried away, RX-7's are prep level 2 cars. You can also use a webber carb with a limited size venturi, and that will likely give better high end power from shorter runners.

Non-DOT tires are allowed, like Hoosier and Goodyear cantilever slicks (>10" wide 23" diameter tires on the required 15x7 wheel). No need to cryo internals, but lightened and balanced rotating assembly with snap ring retained gears would be good, maybe get them scalloped, get them race clearanced and definetely do every known oil system mod, dry sump is best. Lighter than stock apex seals will be good for high rpms that are needed to make power (ceramic or carbon). You can replace your rear control arm bushings with spherical bearings (AWR) and they also make front needle bearing control arms. You'll want a high ratio rear gear (ie 5.12:1), you can run a dog box or put Miata gears in your box. Replace the rear hatch with fiberglass and lexan, replace the windshield with lexan. Remove everything that you're allowed to, run a really light fiberglass hood (with intergral headlight covers if it's an FC).

Megasquirt -Sure, on the stock manifold and TB only
Tubular cross members -No
Tubular adjustible control arms-camber -Not necessarily needed
Fender flares- bolt on -Or molded in, but Dzus fasteners would be most common
Naca air duct -No, you can use the turn signal holes though and FTP holes for an FC
Roll cage-dont think ill need it though -Required
Do i have to weld up sunroof? -Not necessarily, but you want it gone for GC reasons, you can rivet on a cover
What can i gusset? -Basically anything

Read the rules through at least 10x and do everything that you're allowed to do, that's what it takes to win most of the time. AWR is a good source for lots of EP race parts.

To build a competitive EP car you're going to need $50,000.00. If that's your budget then go for it. Or you could take a look at the pro7 class to get a good low cost start at racing. If you're not set on building your own, there's a few good turn key pro7 cars that you can pick up for the bargin basement price of around $3,000 to $4000.

As far as SCCA vs ICSCC... all I can say is we've never had any issues with SCCA accepting us from IRDC.

money is no issue so thanks guys i have a lot to consider. i have had several job offers recently due to going to wyotech the most promissing is art morrison so i have fab skills wich helps a lot with costs. how much deos it cost to build a pro7 car? i think some might be confused on what i have its a 84 GSL-SE and im thinking about spending $20k.

There's actually a competetive EIP (what ICSCC calls SCCA EP) for sale in WA right now. It's much cheaper than building one yourself.

http://www.icscc.com/cgi-bin/discus/...le=/6/822.html

Id much rather build mine. I dont even allow people to work on my vehicles so buying one someone already built is almost definatly out of the question. Ive learned from experiance that i can only trust my work. but thanks anyway.

oh and im looking to spent $30k building my own car not 20. blame it on the fat fingers haha

also what is the benifit of running miata gears?

Pro 7 is limited to 12a isnt it? if not wich class is i cant remember

The gears are spaced more closely than in the RX-7 boxes and they've got a nice low 5th gear. They're as strong as or maybe stronger than the RX-7 boxes (the NA ones anyway).

so you talking just the gears or the whole tranny?

Sorry I gave you bad advice. The GSL-SE is not a legal car for pro7. The pro7 class has to be non-SE brakes and a stock 12a engine. Typically I think the cars are based on the GSL.

As for trannies, you have to pull the gears out of the Miata trans and put them in a RX7 case. You also have to perform some lathe work on the input shaft but it's not major. The trans that works best for us as far as gear ratios go is the 2nd gen NA trans. It has a taller 2nd gear which fits the PR and Bremerton tracks better with our stock SE engine. Your best bet is to start with the trans that you have and wait to see how the ratios fit the track and engine that you're using. Then look for close ratio/wide ratio alternatives.
I think your budget could build you a nice ITS car (That's the SCCA classification... I don't know the ICSCC equivilent) You can run your stock engine in that class and then when you get the chassis sorted out, do the mods to bump up to EP. Just keep an eye on the EP rules when building so your cage, etc is legal for for when you make the jump. For example, I built a GT legal cage in mine and I'm glad I did.

^^^do you run a SE or do you know of a good begining class that allows them? the $30k is what ill eventually put in the car not right this minute. right now im looking at 2-5k for the basic stuff like tires, rims, coils and shocks etc.

is there a specific miata tranny i have to use?

redbstd give Dave at DGEMotorsports a call, he has a lot of experience with putting miata internals into an RX-7 case.

All the Maita 5 speeds are the same, so any one of them is fine. The later ones might have better synchros or something, but that'll be about it.

All the safety gear like the seat, cage, fire system, shutoff switch, belts, fire suit, helmet and so could easily run you $10k, and that's without doing any of the performance mods yet like coilovers, race tires and proper brakes. You won't be allowed to race untill you get that all sorted.

This i figured im just plan on doing a little racing to begin with. im not even looking at going production racing at this time just some open laps and auto crossing but what i realy want to do is go production racing(eventually) but for right now ill be happy with going faster than whats allowed on the freeway. Im figuring on a spending for a cage wich i can TIG myself, helmet, seat, belt, and suit(maybe) all the other stuff is not needed for what im figuring on doing. My car will evolove as my racing skills evolove. For now production racing is definately out of the question and to think i would jump right into it is laughable. So sorry if i misled some i apologize. im just trying to get some info on what road couse races i can compete in with a mostly stock GSL-SE except for above named mods and suspention,DOT tire, wheels, slotted rotors, decent pads, stainless lines. just the basics for now thats were i got the $2-5k from. I know racings expensive but for now i owe $35K to Wyotech so splooging on a race car isnt the wisest of decisions.

Any on track racing requires safety gear. I think with Solo 1 (time trials) it's less (ie roll bar not cage), but that's not door to door racing, it's more like open track days.

Basically all you can do now is driving schools, then once you get some experience you can do open track days too. That's not racing though, it is track driving, but it's 100% non-competetive and most of the time taking lap times is forbidden and if you're trying to race with anyone they'll kick you out.

My car will have a cage, racing seat, and harness. So after i get some driving schools and experience under my belt whats the beginning form of racing were i can race others?

I think ITS or maybe ICSCC Production (not the same as SCCA Production) would be the entry level for you.

My car started life as a GLS-SE. I have a totally stock rear suspension except for shocks. The front is mostly stock with a home built coil over kit and stock car three piece sway bar. I use the stock wheels and now I'm using Khumo 195x14 tires. The engine is a totally stock SE with stock injection (built by JLC in Kent). The interior is gutted except it has the stock dash and instruments. Most of the parts on the car are used ebay or free outdated/unwanted stockcar parts from a friendly team. My car isn't competetive in any class that it's legal in. The lowest class is ITS and it can barely keep up there. But, it gets us in the run group and there's always another car or two in some other class that's about the same speed as us so we just play with whoever is similar speed with us. I can at least say it's faster than most spec Miata cars.
The only thing I did for brakes was an ebay $15 proportioning valve and expensive Hawk pads. Everything else in the brakes is stock. I use the stock SE rear end. I pulled it apart and added an additional spacer in the clutch pack to tighten it up.
I got a cage kit from CSC and installed it myself. That was pretty inexpensive.. around $1000. Be sure to get one with DOM tubing. After that, you only need a few safey items: main power switch, fire extinguisher, window net, etc. You can use the stock seat but entry level aluminum race seats are pretty cheap. Wait as long as possible to buy your belts. They come with a manufacturing date stamp and become illegal 2 years after that date.
The best entry level performance mods you can do with the engine is light flywheel and header. I think the flywheel setup is over priced by the time you get the counter weight and all but it does help free up the engine revs. Be very wary of people trying to sell you big port jobs. It's very common to way over port an engine without having the additional internals to let you rev the engine to the levels that can use the ports. No port work is allowed for ITS. Also, be very careful to keep the stock SE below 7000 RPM.
My biggest issue is finding tires that can live longer than a couple race weekends under the stock fenders. And at $500 per set, that becomes my second biggest consumable. Tops is entry fees at $300 per weekend.
That should be enough to keep the thread going a few more days.

OK so were a the specific rules for ITS at? How many at once race in ITS? Also what is the average price of a competitive ITS car? Also what mods can be done to my engine to make it stronger or more relaible at higher rpm?

IT == Improved Touring.

Check the forums at:

http://www.improvedtouring.com/

It's an SCCA class, so the General Competition Rules (GCR) with specify all the cars and the modifications is available for download at the SCCA site:

http://www.scca.org/

Cost for a competitive car? Depends on the class. Already built entry level cars can be had for $4k to $8k. Multiply that by 2 if you are building the same car yourself. Front running cars can run $20k-$30k for a custom build with everything freshened and spares, again depending on class.

Go to the SCCA website and download the GCR (rule book). The rules for IT and Prod and all the other classes as well as the general rules are all in there. Get intimately familiar with it. The rules for ICSCC Prod are available from their website.

You really can't do any internal modifications in IT (in order to control power levels and keep costs down). Stock flywheel is needed too. You can raise the oil pressure and change seals, but that's about it. Intake needs to be stock too, but you can re-jet carbs or run a standalone and exhaust is free.

As far as engine mods for higher RPM I'm not much of an expert. The biggest deal is the apex seals. I use stock, there are better ones that the high RPM guys use. They get very expensive and must be changed often. I have the "racing" oil pump and pressure regulator for higher oil pressure. Another needed mod is upgraded stationary gears. Then I'm sure there's lots of smaller tricks that they put in that I don't know about. Then you have to run aftermarket fuel injection or carb because the SE injection doesn't have enough capacity to deliver the required extra fuel. I can say that I gave JLC a running engine and he returned it to me with his choice of upgrades (for reliability only... no power increasing mods) for about $3000. He said it should last me 10 years of road racing as long as I give it normal maintenance and most of all observe the 7000 RPM redline. He said a "cheater motor" with all the ultra high rpm parts and portwork would cost me between $10K and $20k plus it would have to come back at least once a year for refreshing.
I haven't been to an ICSCC race in a long time but they typically have a much higher car count than SCCA. For SCCA, Greg Fordahl has a bunch of 944s that he brings. Usually they run ITS... sometimes they run other classes. So, I'd say there's maybe 2 or 3 in the class.
You can go to either ICSCC or NWR-SCCA web sites then look for 2007 race results and count the number of cars that have run in each class in each race. SCCA results are at:
http://www.nwr-scca.org/Race/results/2007Results.htm
You can also find my car in the results to see how competitive we are.
By the way, Fordahl rents his cars for a very reasonable price. I don't know how he does it because it's almost cheaper than I can run my own car. The cars look very clean and are very reliable.

I just realized the question i just asked was answered but....do any of you know who can machine my part for me?

Racing Beat sells lightened assemblies with the snap ring gear mod, but they don't do the scallopping. CLR Motorsports in Miami was a pioneer of the scallopping as I gather, you should try getting in touch with them about that.

It'll be costly though, and you'll really need some big ports and big rpm's to make enough power to make it all worth the cost, and to get to those high rpm's cost money for other things too, like the light apex seals, the race bearings, hardened stat gears and all those oil system mods. If you want more power and rpm's at lower cost, swap in some S5 internals, that gets you to an 8k redline right there for little cost.

s5 internal swaps the plan. you sure your not a mind reader? lol.

what is scalloping? First time ive heard of it.