Mazda returning to Le Mans...
 

That's right... further details to come. From what I understand it will be a rotary effort. Keep an eye on the website below it should be up in the next week.

http://www.returntolemans.com

It's mu understanding they are fielding a new engine in the ALMS next year as well. Same car?

I think it's suppose to be more than just a new engine. I heard it may be a complete new car (chassis and all). It would be nice if they could at least compete with Intersport Racing... :rolleyes:

I'm more interested to see what happens with the GT1 balancing and who actually signs up for next year. Corvette has made some pretty bold statements about the Astons sandbagging.

It was thought they'd go 4-rotor mid year last year and it never happened. If they are to compete with the Porsches they need to step up BIG TIME.

Doesnt seem like this is a factory effort. Is this an independent team that just happens to use a rotary??

It's a collaboration similar to Penske and Porsche.

I was told by one source that they decided to use a turbo 4-cylinder made by a different company and re-badged as a Mazda motor. The same source said they were also considering using a rotary engine, but the requested hp/fuel economy improvements over last year's motor were unrealistic. I'm not sure how current that information is though . . .

I think that the team to beat is the Compuware Vettes again...Theyve won pretty consistantly, for the past couple years.

If mazda came back in, I would love to see them use a 4 rotor again, that would be awesome.

Looking forward to more info.

theyve been back on the scene for a while... i even have pictures of their trailer and all their stuff... its a 4 rotor renesis.

they should dominate.. i thought the rotary got banned though?

no, the le mans series allows, gasoline, diesel and wankel. weird i know since wankels use gasoline, but i guess thats how they classify engines.http://photos-043.ak.facebook.com/ip...07043_4651.jpg
http://photos-044.ak.facebook.com/ip...07044_5040.jpg

diesels are still going to dominate just like they did last year

yea, you are right. in this case, the audi r's. i cant remember if its the r8 or r10. whatever it is, theyre making a similar version as a production car. in nfs carbon it was called the audi le mans proto or something.

LOL!! In order for them to return to Le Mans first they would have to beat the porsches @ sebring .....not likely considering this year they were lucky not to be lapped by the GT-2's

all LeMans engines have to breath through a restrictor, and they give different engines different size restrictors. The diesels were allowed to use a much larger restrictor than anyone else - that makes it easier to win. The rotaries are very sensitive to intake restrictors, and that is one of the reasons they have been non-competitive for the last decade (the other reason is lower rotary fuel economy requires more pit stops.) A difference of just one mm intake restrictor size makes a noticeable performance difference in this very competitive race. Besides juking around with assigning different intake restrictors to give some models an edge, the rules makers also allow some models to have bigger fuel cells than other models.

I believe the diesels this year are required to run with smaller fuel cells as well to take away some of the mileage advantage?

I'd love to see a rotary really competing again but other than the fuel economy vs power issues the other huge one is that you can't use a rotary engine as a structural part of the chassis; the engine is not stiff enough. This dooms a rotary powered sports racer chassis to be heavier, less stiff or both.

By the end of this last season (once the Aston tire problems were sorted out), the Astons were actually putting a whipping on the Vettes. The Vettes were only still competitive because of the Aston's reliability (or lack there of). It will be interesting to see what happens next season. The Vettes have said they may not complete in ALMS next season and move over into the standard LeMans series instead (because of the amount of restrictions they had last season).

Of course, the Aston's want more restrictions on the Vettes to allow them to come back. I have a feeling there may not be a GT1 division next season for ALMS.

Apparently the Corvette team's been bitching about Aston Martin sandbagging in order to get the rules more in their favor.

I'm pretty sure the rotary was banned at LeMans after 1991, but they make their own rules, the ALMS is run by a different group. Maybe they're still not allowed to race at LeMan itself, but they're certainly allowed in the ALMS.

I know the engine was basically a 20B PP at first, unless they were allowed to change I'd think it's still the 3 rotor. I've also heard the rumours of a piston engine in there.

Penske is a top notch team, Porsche is a top notch manufacturer, together they nip at the heels of the slower P1 cars. That's a tough combination to beat.

The Vette team already had an intake restriction and then they were weight penalized last year. Vette did a "fake radio call" during a race to say they were good to the end on fuel (knowing they had to stop) to see what Aston would do; the Astons started gaining over 2 seconds a lap after the call. Several races Astons never completed qualifying (no mechanical problems, they just brought the cars in), as if they were trying not to show their true speed.

If you watched the races, the Astons were much faster. Had they not suffered problems with their tires (fixed later in last season) and mechanical problems, they would have handed the Vettes their arses in every race.

Yeah, It'll be intresting to see what happens with the Astons this year. I remebr watchign one of the races and the freakin Vette's front brake disc blew up towards the end of the race its wa an awsome scene. Then again in that race both vettes looked like they were down for the coutn and they came back to take 2nd and 3ed I think?

Here's to hoping modern technology, SUFFICIENT EDUCATION and sane rules make this competetive and fun.

I just hope another rules-drama is avoided.

I enjoyed watching the ALMS race in Portland this year despite the heat and humidity (something like 100 degrees and 100%). The vette brakes were the only ones you could see glowing in the evening. Around there the vette and DBR9 seemed fairly evenly matched. One huge disappointment was that Mazda was missing because they were still recovering from crash damage.

It was funny watching them race on TV when the commentators were talking about the vette being the handler and the AM being the straight line speed car. Totally backwards to how most people perceive European and American cars (to be fair they're mostly right).

I doubt that will happen. They have all but ruined the GT1 division since there are only 2 teams in it now; and it doubtful both teams will be back next season. Its too bad they handicapped the Saleen so badly a few seasons back as thats one of my favorite cars to watch. :(

IMO, if they stop with their "on-the-fly" competition adjustments, they may attract more teams from the LeMans series to compete as well.

So which class is Mazda planning on competing in next year?

Staying in P2, as far as I know. I never heard them mention switching classes.

Hmm, Id like to chime in on this:

In regards to Mazda and ALMS: There are no concrete reports right now but rumors are as follows. There may be a second team, Team Spencer is reported to have bought all of Miracle Motorsports gear, including their Courage C65 chassis, the same chassis BK ran this year. Spencer has also stopped builK, another hint they may run themselves. The BK team may also be switching to a Lola chassis. They are supposedly also going to be receiving more support from Mazda. Unless the teams use a 4 rotor, it is very unlikely that they will be competitive with Porsche. They have proven that they can go the distance of a 12hr race, they just dont have the performance to win. Maybe with the possible factory support that will increase.

Corvette vs. Aston: Contrary to most rumors, BOTH teams received weight, restrictor and fuel restrictions last season. By Laguna Seca, the cars were the same weight and fuel capacity. The restrictors were different simply because one team was using a V8 and the other a V12. The corvettes are are faster in the turns to do the torque advantage, being able to exit corners faster. The Astons are very much a top end car with the extra HP. Over the course of last season it was apparent that most times, once the Astons got around the Vettes, they would pull away, using the straights as an advantage with the better top end. The reason there are so little teams in GT1 is due to the regulations of the class. The parts required to run are very expensive. For example a certain transmission is required, and it is a very expensive unit. Break it and you need to buy a new one. GT1 is considered the second most expensive class to compete in second to P1. For this reason is why you see very little teams run GT1 in the US because of the ENORMOUS factory backing from GM. No privateer team wants to spend that much money to more than likely lose to Corvette. The fact that Aston has the balls to go head to head with them, and win, is why I am a huge fan of theirs.

Diesels: Oh shit. Audi again has made a badass car, and in the nature of ALMS, balances of performance have been instituted. This has pissed off the head people at Audi. They got the fuel filling restriction do to that fact that diesel has different fluid properties allowing to flow faster through the refueling nozzles, allowing faster pit stops. They also increased their range, so they were hit with a fuel tank restriction, down to 80L from 90L I believe.

LONG LIVE THE 787B
that was an amazing car...

Yep, but that was after the Vettes took a real beating at Road Atlanta. ALMS had to do something or it was definite the Vettes wouldn't come back the next season.

Wrong.

Balance of performance bulletins were released after Aston winning at Lime Rock, Mosport and Miller. The bulletins changed various things for both teams. Less weight for Corvette, smaller restrictor for Aston, etc...

The only difference between the two cars at Petit was a weight difference. The Corvettes weighed 110lb more than the Astons. Everything else; restrictors and fuel capacity were the same from when the new regulations were announced last January before Sebring.

Not according to many articles:

Thats all Corvette propaganda. The Corvette motor has always been down on HP from the Astons V12. The part about restrictors is written in the wrong context. ACO/IMSA rules designate different restrictor sizes depending on displacement and number of cylinders. Since both cars run different motors, of course there is going to be a restrictor difference. At the time of Petit, both Aston and Corvette were running the same size restrictor that they began the season with. The only difference was stated, the 110lb weight penalty.

I don't think its propaganda, but more taken from a different context. They are probably referring to their restriction from the previous year (which as you mentioned they were running the same restriction as at the beginning of the year) as to what they were currently running.

Either way, they were handicapped from the previous season into this past season in two ways which has made the Astons clearly faster (when they aren't breaking).

Dennis Spencer is not going to race in ALMS. He bought a team but that's the extent of it. He doesn't have the funds to race and has admitted it. There will still be only 1 team and that's BK.

That website has been under development for over a year now with no change.

Mazda will probably announce their new program with a new car being a Lola. Reports have confirmed that they have had a car made although they have not publicly admitted it yet. The bad side is that there is a very high probability that when they do announce the new car, it won't be rotary powered. It is looking like they will run a 2.0L turbocharged DISI 4 cylinder. That's not set in stone but is very highly rumored. Mazda originally had 3 big goals in racing and that was to win the 3 biggest 24 hour races in the world. They've got 2 of them. Spa Francorchamp was the first and we all know of LeMans. The 3rd is Daytona and they are going to make a serious effort for it next year. Take a look at the new 3 rotor Speedsource car. The ALMS car will most likely be used as a PR base for their DISI direct injected engines in the MS3, MS6, and the CX7.

"That website has been under development for over a year now with no change. "

You are half-correct. The B-K website has been under construction forever. The www.returntolemans.com website was added recently.

I love listening to everyone speculate and rehash rumors :D Too funny.

I don't know about the others, but I know many of the people associated with the program or closely tied into it and some of them still aren't sure what's going to happen. The piston engine is a very real possibility.

I read that Sebring will be run with a rotary and then they will convert over to the direct injection motor

At this point they are probably still examining many different possibilities and haven't directly settled on one yet which is why there has been no formal announcement. The piston engine is a possibility but that's not to say it will absolutely get used. Direct injection is probably out of the question at least on a rotary. If it's DI then it will be the direct injected 4 cylinder. I know who is working on DI for Mazda (they contract some design studies out to top rotary builders) and he is still facing many issues at higher rpms. That doesn't sound like something that would be applied to a race engine right now. He is very tight lipped about what he's trying and getting any information out of him is next to impossible other that just knowing it's not ready yet. I hope we'll still see a rotary next year but we may not. We'll see...

I saw they will have Randy Pobst driving for them next year. That's nice, at least in my opinion as he's one of my favorite drivers. ;) It would be nice to see if Speedsource could build a few cars for the ALMS GT2 class (I sometimes get bored with the Grand Am series). But at least the Ferrari's have started challenging the Porsche's in that class.

[QUOTE=racerjasonI love listening to everyone speculate and rehash rumors :D Too funny.[/QUOTE]

yep. i know that i have nothing to do with any of it

That matches what I heard to a 'T'. I don't think a lot of people realize how small the professional rotary racing community is. The people that I know in it have mentioned the 4-cylinder as if it is a fact and I tend to think that they would be in the loop if a rotary was being used instead.

ill probably get a flaming for this but what the hell...

it may be simplistic, but im SICK of restrictions.

Give the manufacturers a maximum HP and TQ value and a minimum weight level. Forget these restrictors etc. Set them on the track and let them race.

The car that loses, loses because of either driver error, or poor engineering - its as simple as that.

Why bother trying to even the balance between a car that isnt as good and a car thats better by imposing penalties on the better car or lifting restrictions on the lesser car? Thats just dumb.

Ever since Group B rallying was banned and they started making these rules in motorsport its become pretty god damn boring. Bring back the days of the metro 6r4 and lancia integrale S4...the cosworth RS500 etc:
http://www.shelsley-walsh.co.uk/imag...y/DSC_7023.jpg

http://www.motorimania.net/manifesta...elta.s4_11.jpg

http://www.forix.com/8w/6thgear/ge-s...orth-rs500.jpg

These were the cars that used to, and still do get me really excited. I love watching the BTCC (british touring car championship for you americans) races from the 80s. RS500's scrambling for traction out of corners to beat the other cars down the straight; riding over bumps and screaming the tyres for 100 feet down the road as the rears struggle to transmit that 500bhp to the ground.

Sure there is the argument of "its dangerous, motorsport is so much safer nowadays etc" But my question is always dangerous to who? The drivers? Of course. But any kind of driving is dangerous to the drivers. What about the spectators? well, its not dangerous if people a)dont act like fucking dumbasses and b) the event organisers take appropriate precautions.

Nowadays BTCC races are restricted to 300bhp in the car and 90% of the vehicles are front wheel drive! Where is the fun in that? Sure its good to watch a good race, but the fun has been taken out of it now i feel.

Sure the racing you guys are talking about is a little more exciting than our decidedly tame BTCC, but the argument still stands - if a car is better than another, then why penalise the better car for it?

thats just fucking dumb. Manufacturers race in order to gain notoriety for their brand for performance, reliability and desireability. If they are not allowed to exhibit their full potential on the track then why do it?

Now we are reduced to talking about how the astons gained 2 seconds a lap on the vettes (which is a very interesting point, dont get me wrong) but i feel that this makes racing somewhat exclusive. People who are not obsessively interested in motor vehicles now cannot sit down and watch a race and find it exciting. Its all too boring, too much regularion, too much red tape. You have to look real deep now before you see the beauty behind the racing that has always been there. All these rules do is take away from the sport not add to it.

I wish i could start my own racing league. My rules would be:

600Hp/Tq limit
900kg minimum dry weight limit
any drivetrain you like


That would make it more interesting. I cant be bothered to type any more, ive gone on enough - but i can tell you id much rather sit down and watch an 80s BTCC race that happened before i was born (1985) after seeing it 20 times than watch a modern BTCC race.

So where are you guys reading all this information. Are you guys watching it on TV too or somthing?

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/ usually has pretty good info.

rotarygod, where did you hear that dennis spencer didn't have the funds to run ALMS? That's hard to believe...

He can probably afford it but he just can't justify doing it. Here's an interview with him on the subject. I also know certain people in Atlanta that are affiliated with him.

http://rotarynews.com/node/view/827

I totally agree with you. I love watching old group B rally. I definitely understand why that got banned, but on a controlled track with spectators in the stands all these limitations are just ridiculous. and now we have V8s in F1? give me a break...

if you made that racing leage, I would race in it :)

or at least watch it with a pasion :p:

EDIT:

I love the ford RS200 :)

http://www.shorey.net/Auto/American/...%20Grundel.jpg

I've pretty much stopped watching alms (and speed world challenge) because of the competition adjustments and weight rewards. Its just not interesting that a rules board has to slow certain cars down to make other cars competitive. At one of my track days at VIR my instructor was an ex-speed world challenge driver for a Porsche team, he said he gave up on it when Cadillac entered and paid their way into very few restrictions.

But I still love going to the races in person if only to hear the noises.

jayk, your statement about alms not being intersting because they slow down cars....If you remember when cadillac showed up at sebring they sandbaged all weekend and then smoked the field durring the race, after that ALMS cut the shit out of that car. would you have prefered they didn't do anything to it??? The caddy would have won every race by laps how interesting would that have been.

Without the balance of performance bulletins, the racing would be boring. This is the one reason P1 is so uneventful, Audi dominates and they have no competition. GT2 is exciting to watch since there are 20 cars that are basically all equal so they are dicing it up every lap. If there werent actual competition, racing would be boring if one team just showed up and ran over everyone.

I think the Audi's did have some competition with the Creation and Zytek teams. Those teams mainly had mechanical reliability problems where as in most of those races at least one R10 was running clean. Actually, I anticipated Audi being able to run away with most of their races but they really weren't as far ahead of the other LMP1 cars as I would have thought. I do wonder if they were holding back on their fuel usage though.

you mean teams would get rewarded for innovation instead of getting punished for it??

what a bizaire concept... deffinitly boring.