Drifting parts
 

what parts could help me drift good in an rx7. it already has perfect weight desdrabusion. plus does brembo make a GT brake kit for 3rd gen rx7's tnx.

Brake kit for 3rd gen? Do you have an FC or FD? If an FC, which model is it?

Learn how to drift first. Then worry about upgrades later. It you're truly trying then you'll be plenty busy with maintenance in the meantime.

BTW, the weight distribution doesn't matter too much. Most of the most popular drift cars in Japan are not that close to 50/50 fr/rr balance. It's the skill of the driver that matters most.

its the driver, just go and practice in a parking lot or something. all the stuff you are thinking about will help you when your going sideways at 60+mph, not 15-25mph you should be doing right now

What does drifting have to do with racing? Somebody please delete or move this thread. The Race car tech forum is becoming corrupted with this junk.
-Matt

D1 :D

In anycase, Id rather be in a car on a track with someone that can handle a slide rather then someone which will freak and not know wtf to do when things get sideways. Drifting is also a very useful technique, especially in Rally!

How is D1 racing? Just because they use the term grand prix does not make it so. Racing involves competing against other to be the fastest around a track. Drifting is to racing like ballroom dancing is to track and field.
-Matt

Drifting has NOTHING to do with racing? Shhhh, don't tell racecar drivers that. :p:

http://wrc-online.net/images/photos/...n_skid_480.jpg


All because you don't recognize it as something legitmate for racing, does not mean squat. Please don't hate. ;)

dont knock it till you try it :)

You obviously know nothing about racing or you would see clearly how Drifting is Racing. Not a "race" in the sense that you line up and go against other drivers for 6 hours or so many laps. Drifting in its orginal meaning is something that every road racer knows about. It is used in Rally and many many other facest of "racing" as well.

In D1 Gran Prix the drivers are timed from different points on the track to determine speed; The line used to get through the corner or corners is also judged as well as Angle and style of starting, maintaing and ending the drift. Cars are also raced two at a time where one person tries to drive the same line angle and speed as the other without crashing or making a mistake. This is the basics of the purest meaning of racing. The more style, speed and angle of your drift the more points. If you can drift well you can drive road races, autocross basically anything well. The same cannot be said for the reverse.

You should open your mind, get some seat time and try drifting......and also you should read the fine print in this forum. It is for RACE CAR TECH........including autocross and any other type of motorsports!! I would imagine even if the administrators made a Drift only section someone like yourself would come in there and try to talk it down and make themselves feel smarter by degrading other peoples endeavors so If you don't like drift posts in here send a mail to the administrators but do not tell people what is racing and what is not when obviously you don't have a clue.

1. personally, I could care less if this is in here or not

but 2.

is it racing? The ididorod is racing. the 100m dash is racing. The Tour de France is racing. Winston Cup is racing. What isn't racing? Figure Skating Championships. Why include Skating? Because it's based on subjective measurements of the participants skill by judges. You don't win D1 championships, from what I understand, by the fastest time, you win based on a judges assessment of your skills and abilities to get a car to drift in a 'perfect' manner on a perfect line.

Is it motorsports (and therefore has a place in this forum, based on the 'fine print)? Yes, in my opinion. Are there applications for drifting techniques in certain forms of racing? Yes. Does drifting take a lot of skill? Hell yes. But it's not racing, so please don't try to call it that.

PaulC
now, is someone going to bother to answer the first guy's question??

Please enlighten me? At what point do drifters compete against each other in a non subjective measurement to determine the winner of an event? Many of the same aspects can be seen in road racing and rally driving as in drifting, however neither of the former events enompases the latter at all. Road racers and rally drivers do not drift. Drifting is the art of placing a car sideways through multiple turns in an artistic manner. At no time is the goal of someone in a race (be it road or rally) to gain style points. Road, rarely, and rally drivers (mostly on non-paved surfaces) will use large slip angles but the goal is not to look good going sideways through the corner. Just because ice racers and figure skaters use skates does not mean one activity is the same as the other.

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If you can drift well you can drive road races, autocross basically anything well. The same cannot be said for the reverse.

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Are you kidding? Maybe you need to try running both drift and speed events? Different skill sets are required

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You should open your mind, get some seat time and try drifting......and also you should read the fine print in this forum. It is for RACE CAR TECH........including autocross and any other type of motorsports!!

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Then the title of this forum needs to be changed. If any motorsport is allowed than why call it race car tech? I suggest we rename it motorsports forum and at that point we can invite show cars and dirtbikes to this forum howver the traffic is going to be a pain in the ass to wade through.

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I would imagine even if the administrators made a Drift only section someone like yourself would come in there and try to talk it down and make themselves feel smarter by degrading other peoples endeavors so If you don't like drift posts in here send a mail to the administrators but do not tell people what is racing and what is not when obviously you don't have a clue.

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Wouldn't imagine it. Many of my friends are into drifting and more power to them. Its not what I like doing with my weekends. The problem is that I found this forum a refuge from the buzz on the main list. Now I find myself more and more having to dig through irrelevant topics to find anything of worth. If I'm the only one that feels that way I have no problem leaving and just monitioring the race forums that deal with racing on other sites. But I've met several of the members here at races and would like to stay around.
-Matt

Ok ok... so it seems that some people are going against drifting and think it is stupid. That is how I interpreted the first post. I am heavily into drifting and compete on a national level in Japan. I also do regular races where you qualify and compete against other cars. I have lap times on 3 different circuits in japan also Organize and compete in autocross every month. The skill set for all of these events overlap each other. The line for drifting is not much different than a "grip"line and in a lot of cases at road courses drifting a corner will give you faster lap times.

I tend to take a liking to this particular forum as well because people who actually race their cars are posting in here and there are topics concerning skill and techniques as well as what parts aid drivers. In that aspect I do not want to argue about what post goes where in a forum unless it is total garbage. I do see the point on drifting differing from other races however since the parts and skills required to do both are overlapping I see no problem with drift posts being made in this forum.

ok, when in the hell did drifting become "just for show"? there are several facets of drifting in japan: the D1 style show off type, the mountain street racer, and the road racing style. these are all totally different types of motorsport. one is judged for who looks the best and can hold the back out longest, one is who can stay on the road with out dying and impress the crowds, and the last is for speed. if any people argue that drifting is slower than grip, be sure you know what the hell your talking about before you pipe up. of course D1 is slower than grip, speed isnt the soul of the sport. if anyone wants to see an example of drift Vs grip, download the Jun Supra drifting video from kazaa or some other site. the lap time drops by like 5 seconds when the supra uses drift.

Interesting, then if that's the case, why aren't the JGTC guys doing just that? I watched the 6 races that Speed TV put up in January, they weren't drifting.. If it were really 5 seconds faster, they'd do it wouldn't they? But ok, I'm downloading this vid now, let's see what you're talking about.

Ugh, 1.28kb/s.. This will take all freaking night.. I'll watch it tomorrow :)

oh and if you would like to see how the JGTC cars' tires would hold up after like 15 laps of drifting, thats like 12 tire changes...uggghh...not good for budget, or for track times (overall) if they used grip, they would obviuosly win due to all the tire stops of the drifters JGTC is not souly about speed either, its got the stamina factor as well

Ok, much better, up to 120kb/s now.. Watching the first half, I'm struck by something critical.

Did they change the setup for the 'grip' portion to suit a 'grip' car, or did they try to 'grip' drive a car setup for drift, in which case, I could easily see that setup causing a 'grip' driver to be 5 seconds slower.

oh and while your waiting on that jun supra vid DL this one too: Silvia Rx7 drift. these guys seem to bee about the speed not the style! its about a minute long so u dont have to wait all night :D

im not sure on that one buddy, im sure it would make a difference tho...the one i saw didnt show any in between, just the two laps adn the times at the end.

sheesh we really ninja jacked the hell outta this guy's thread--sorry man. a good camber kit helps out alot if you wanna get sideways, and a good, steady power band helps you control you car a bit better (no unexpected BOOST!) and anything you can do to stiffen the chassis will help alot (body roll is the devil!)

Wrap your noodles around this one. Many of the JGTC drivers are also some of the top drifters in Japan.

also im assuming that since there is no noticable camber on the supra, it is set up for a mix of drift and grip, just a happy median, i think they were going for a fair show of which is potentially faster with the right driver.

check out page 33 of "secrets of solo racing" by henry a. watts...

Ok, I watched it, they didn't list a lap time for the drift portion, as far as I could see..

You can clearly see that he's slower down the front straight after that tire blistering slide as well..

Sorry, I don't think that video supports your argument at all.

I'm not surprised that a lot of JGTC drivers are top drifters, it takes a great deal of car control skill to keep your car spinning and sliding in a controlled fashion, such as they do.

PaulC

well i guess you didnt get the full version.... to me it looks like hes hauling ass down the straight compared to when he was gripping, anyways im tired of arguing over something that hasent been proved either way yet. till some evidence going one way or another comes up, ill leave this discussion as it is now, unresolved.

What kind of evidence do you need? Are your eyes open? Can you name one race (the real term) series in which drifting is used? If its only due to tire wear would you not expect qualifying laps to be all drift? Did Schumacher drift last weekend? Did Alonso go sideways through qualifying to get 3rd on the grid? Hell, at the Solo II nationals did ANYONE drift their way to a win? One lap at a time, tire wear is not an issue. There is no grip vs drift debate... Its not opinion, just open your eyes.
-Matt

PS: For those arguing the title of this forum please note that it has been changed to "Discuss anything related to road racing and auto X." Now go form a drifting forum...

in case you did not know, your car needs to be set up for drift in order to drift fast. "open my eyes?" how bout you shut the hell up and dont tell me what to do. there is no way that between qualifying and the race the crew would be able to get the EXACT right set up that the team spend thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars as well as many hours at the track on testing and such to get the car handling right. i agree that we need a drifting forum, so shit like this doesnt happen anymore. people get so damn adament about their point of view that they are willing to be nasty and snide about it. god damn all of you shut the hell up and just let us believe what we want to.

Ok let me enlighten you about the REAL term drift....its is a RACE term used in timed, grip style events.......I will let you in on a little secret that people who really race cars know and now thanks to the internet and the persistance of idiots everyone will know it. The fastest way around a track it to run the proper line and run it at the limit of adhesion. Drift is what happens when you drive at the limit.

The drift you see in D1 and Drift events is an exaggeration of this and has been expanded to a motorsport because the the immense amount of skill required to do it consistentely. If you are racing F1 with Schumacher on those super long angle courses then there would be little if any advantage to drifting.......If you race on tight road courses lacking wide radius turns then Drifting becomes a valuable tool for getting a good time. Someday you might drive something besides boringt ass autocross and do something like Japanese style Gymkhana, then if you try to not drift or use the skill required to drift then you will loose and I will promise you that. If you really race then you will undoubtebly know that in qualifying there is plent of room to run the perfect line and there is less rubber on the track to cause traciton problems and you would know that consistency is the key to getting a good time.

Whether or not people like drift posts in here or not I really don't give a fuck. If you don't like it don't read it! One problem with the world is bitchy ass people who go on and complain about what other people are doing when those people were minding there own business. Yet when pointed out as being an annoyance themselves they point to some technicallity to protect their right to bitch. So go ahead and bitch.......im used to it.

Since when is this a secret? Every book on driving and driving course teaches this. Drifting in racing refers to the 15 degrees or less of slip angle you get when you are right at the limit. Its a shame but the term "drift" does not refer to that anymore. Go back and read the posts in this forum. Everybody arguing that drifting is faster is refering to showy oversteer opposite lock drifts, not the minor (almost unnoticable to the observer) drifting that is done in racing. I guarantee that if you showed up to a "drift" competition and drove the fastest lap around the track possible you would lose because nobody would be able to see your drift.



I'm sure they would also never have an engine, tires, suspension setup only for qualifying. Oh wait...


Easy enough if you can learn to post in the proper areas and spare people from having to read non related posts.

I have not read a more pathetic sounding statement in a long time.

-Matt

It's REALLY obvious who has done any real racing and who hasn't.

Drifting is SLOW, yes it looks/feels fast, but think about it, your tires are slidding, scrubbing off your speed.

Last year when I was racing at a club level, if I went into a corner to hot, I would get oversteer, and my time for that lap would suffer.

It's also obvious who has been paying attention to what's been written so far. The course you were on is not good for drifting. It's nice and wide open. That's obvious and nobody is saying that drifting like a madman around every apex is the fastest way around every course. That's insane and I hope nobody has read into anything like that. Now if there were extremely tight areas (smaller the the normal turning radius of your car) then making your car rotate will allow you to get through the course quicker. When conditions like that come up, you will need to know how to slide a car just enough to get through very quickly.

Ever see a WRC race on tarmac getting around a tight hairpin? To not slide in these situations you would need to turn as much as possible, then put it in reverse to line up with the road ahead and then proceed. At least you wouldn't be sliding because that'd be too slow, huh? ;)

There are more race venues out there than just autoX and road course racing. Some of them are actually more intense measures of a drivers skill instead of just the car. Too bad most of the people that have a dislike for drifting are painfully unware of them or just don't care.

The course I race on is VERY tight, narrow by road corse standards. Waterfordhills, have you herd of it? In the low HP car I was driving (spec racer) a little oversteer would kill my momentum, and thus my lap times would suffer. This is what I meant in my last post, but my lazy hands didn't bother typing it out.:)

I understand that drifting has it's place, on a low traction surface when the drag of your sliding tires don't slow you down nearly as much as they do on dry pavement. And like you mentioned about tight corners.

I actually really like drifting, but I dislike false info being spread around about it. I follow WRC closly, and wish we had more rally cross coverage in the US. I am not a road course snob. I don't drift my car very much. After all the time and $$$ I have dumped it, I seem to have a hard time flinging it sideways at a ditch. I do introduce my left foot to the brake every once and a while though:D

No worries. Low HP spec car? Yeah, the last thing you'll want to do is scrub off speed and lose momentum. Tell me about tight courses. :p: Pacific Raceways has a nasty chicane at turns 3a and 3b. This is a site that has a vid of a lap on it - One lap of PR . It's a fairly tight area but sliding at all will result in sloppy times. I love driving this course (it's local after all) but I sure wouldn't want to try to slide around on it. But when is drifting most appropriate? When I said tight in my previous post, I meant 1st gear tight. A quick 180 tight. Look up some gymkhana courses that are used in Japan. They'd make most autocrossers have an aneurism. Now those are tight. As Ranzo pointed out, to not use drifting (or extreme slip angle driving if you will) will cause you to be the slowest through the course and lose to those that do slide.

This is the most appropriate section for drifting. One who is into it will setup their car and work on their driving skills as much as anybody that's into road racing and autoX. Heck, with autocross you might be behind the wheel for a total of five minutes per event. I wonder how such a small amount of time in a car can garner such a following? Hmmm... Well, I can't find another section on this board that is as appropriate for such discussions. There certainly are not enough discussions on drifting to warrant it's own section so there's plenty of space here to share. It's not for everybody, so everybody does not need to click on the posts that have the term "drift" explicitly stated in the tagline. But there's no reason to get upset by it being in a particualr section when there are no better sections for it to be in.

Me? I'll take seattime anyway I can get it. Grip or drift or inbetween. I like it all. :D It just seems some people are too quick to dismiss drifting as some passing fad or useless activity. Unless racing a car professionally is putting food on your table, RELAX. Racing shouldn't be taken so seriously. After all, I'd like to think that most everybody that does wake up at 4 or 5am to go out and race on a Sunday first started for the fun if it. That's what drifing is too. Fun. Serious fun. :cool:

www.specracer.com www.waterfordhills.com

Sorry for hijacking the hell out of your thread.

Well seeing as there can be money in compeating in both, I dont see why they wouldnt do both. :D

I think this whole arguement has started because (as was stated before) the term "drift" has become blurred due to events like the d1. Yes drifting IS used in racing. Very little if any is used in grip racing, unnoticable to the eye. However, in rally cross drift is insanely noticable. But they have to for a faster time. Then there is D1 style drift. The more popular drift. And whether people want to admit it or not its spreading here to the US. So bitching about it isnt going to make it go away. The only thing thats gonna take it out of this section is to form a seperate drift section. So I hope someone in charge is taking notes.

1.World Rally Championship
2.SCCA ProRally Championship
3.Manufacturer's Championship

Is three enough? Because that's all I could come up with in half a second.

Will someone put a stake in this thread and let it die already? Sheesh. You're not going to change Matt's mind, he's not going to change yours. We got it. Enough already.

I will not debate the effectiveness of drift over grip or grip over drift. I will simply let you all in on the fact that a tire's maximum grip potential is achieved at approximately 10% slip. (I'm sure you already know this Silkworm, I've seen your videos and you are obviously an experienced track driver). When accelerating from a standstill, you will actually achieve more traction if you put just enough power down to get the rear wheels to start to squeal. This is also true for braking. When your tires start to squeal as you are braking, you are achieving maximum traction. Your tires are actually slipping slightly (which causes the sound).

When you turn into a corner, if you overshoot the tire's maximum grip by 10% and corner in harder than you car actually has the traction capabilities for, your car will fishtail slightly and you will actually be able to carry more speed through the entire corner.

Whether or not you want to call that drifting is completely up to you. I have no opinion on the subject, but you cannot deny that for the fastest possible cornering capabilities, you must slide your car at least some. That's all I've got to say. Just come to an agreement that regardless of whether or not you call it drifting some sort of sliding is slightly faster.

sorry I can't help the origional guy's question seeing as I know absolutely nothing about race setup... d'oh...

Seriously fellas, Drifting is for FUN. I guess people are sick of trying to be the fastest, meaning you have spend top dollars to get them HP.

Drifting is just a fun way to people to compete their cars, and ultimately more important, style and technique of driver. All for PURE FUN OF IT. Just leave it at that okay?

Who really cares who goes the fastest? I like to see big smokey burn out, sideways driving, if there is a way for people to gather and compete how well they drift, why not?

Tire, suspension, engine setup are very different when u WANT TO drift for the FUN OF IT. so just leave it at that okay? What people do with their own car is their business, so stop argueing like school room sissies

Dont tell me seeing a highly tuned, RWD, Turbo charged car doing a 360spin into a turn and whip it into a full sideway drift at 60mph all the way through, wont put a smile on your face? FUN!!!!~