Can't use Antifreeze
 

Want can I use to keep the rust out of the cooling system when you can't use antifreeze in a racecar?:scratch:

Red Line Water Wetter has corrosion protection.

Redline does not have enough rust inhibitor to use alone. Mercedes/BMW G05 antifreeze is clear and water water will tint in to look just like WW. I have used it for years.

So, screw the rules that are there for a reason, as long as it looks like water, it's OK?

I keep my cooling systems it top shape, and where I live there are times I need antifreeze in the car. So yea, I screw the rules...antifreeze is one hell of a lot cheaper than a motor and in 12 years of racing I have never spilled a drop!

Why is antifreeze prohibited in a racecar?

And that's the kind of boneheaded, inconsiderate, self-absorbed, ass hattery that ruins weekends for other racers.

Anti-freeze is not allowed because it's slick as snot and not easy to clean up. Just a couple drops on a drag strip can ruin a guys day and his bank account. You drop water and it can be quickly cleaned up and/or evaporate. You lose a hose on a road course and, after a lap or two, the water is a non-issue. Drop anti-freeze and it doesn't evaporate and stays slick until marshalls are dispatched with oil dry. Not only is a safety hazard, clean up slows down events. When you lose anti-freeze, you might as well oil the track down while you're at it.

I've always used straight water and some water wetter. I've never had engines spontaneously, or over the course of time, decide to turn into heaping piles of oxidized metals.

If it leaks on track it is slipperier than oil and can cause accidents

I all ways use radiator inhibitor stops rust and corrosion and no glychol in it

+1

i was riding with my friend one time, and we were behind a new 911 when it popped a coolant hose off* and we saw a puff of something, stuff hit the windshield and then we were sideways. this is on a straight too.

antifreeze is remarkably slippery! its very dangerous on a race track.



*new 911 with dealer plate inserts, Zee Germans forgot to tighten a clamp, which of course they have only learned to do in the last 10 years or so. engine was toast.

I think that's a Porsche trait.. You can do "PCA coolant antifreeze" on Youtube and find entertainment for hours. ;)

Thanks for the kind words. I have given you an alternative. It is up to you to follow through or not. Based on my 12+ years ON TRACK RACING EXPERIENCE this has never been a problem for me or any of the 10+ cars I have built.

"I have pulled the trigger 5 times, and nothing....."

I only do HPDEs which don't have any coolant req, but I'm thinking about replacing with water. I've seen several off road excursions that seemed to be the result of soemthing slippery on the track. It's not that hard, nor expensive, to change out the coolant before and after each event if corrosion control is a concern.

Pure H20 also make for better heat exchange

Use distilled water instead of just tap water. That will help a lot more than you think

Here's my experience with a Porsche coolant "mishap". The Integra passed me one lap earlier, or else it would've been me in the infield. Driver was fine.

FF to about 1:50

lol, yeah when it happened to us we were the integra!

Okay, I'll fess - I have run coolant before on the track. And in one session on VIR South course during an HPDE I have dumped a lot of coolant in a Very Bad Place.

Now I run water + wetter.

To the earlier poster who brought up the issue of cold temps - with all the crap that gets into your cooling system over time, the hard freeze temp of the water+wetter combo is quite low. It will survive well into the low 20s and below w/o problem. For my track car I try and drain the block during the off-season. If its a streetable car and needs to run in the winter, drain part of the water and add anti-freeze for the winter months. Flush and refill with water+wetter in the spring.

-bill

I ran anti-freeze for HPDE for decades. It is too much of a hassle to replace before each track day in the FD. Bleeding the system is a biatch. Only once had a problem with some hack in a Subaru that was wrenching on the car instead of driving it and finally made it out on track.

I don't run anti-freeze in my race car. There is much more incidence of contact and leaking anti-freeze.

If your using anit-freeze in a race car. It's just a matter of time before you ruin it for everyone.

Water wetter and distilled water is good. There are some additives like RM125 and I think Bars leak rust inhibitor or rust inhibitor/water pump lubricant.

Just for clarity, I believe the context of this thread is "race car and wheel to wheel racing", not HPDE's. I don't know of any organization that requires HPDE cars to not use anti-freeze for the events. Heck in some countries, they don't even require non-W2W drivers to wear helmets. ;)

Please let me know, what, if any NASA events you plan on attending. I'll be sure to give the tech shed (if i'm not in it) a heads up....

I don't run NASA any more...long story. I may (making plans) be in your neck of the woods Labor day to run the SCCA race at Branierd. But since you follow the lesser series I doubt you will be around.

My car is a race only car. I have been doing track day event to sort the car out. I run the car with Northern California Racing Club. They also have along with track day events a racing series ARC and I plan on running in that. Even if I only would do track day events I would run with water only. I don't want to be the guy that cause someone to get hurt because a popped a hose. The car have water only when I first got the car and I ran it for two years and no rust. I rebuilt the engine this year and the water is getting rusty so I don't know what was in the car when I bought it. I will drain it and try the distilled water see how that works. I drain the cooling system in the winter because I live up in the mountains of California and gets down in the low teens in the winter. Thanks everyone for posting here on this.
:nod:

Since we're talking wheel to wheel here, what sanctioning body? Looking through the SCCA rules, I can't find anywhere that says no antifreeze. There are just a ton of references to the requirement of a coolant catch can.

Distilled water will actually pull minerals from the engine. In piping systems, distilled water is ran in anything BUT metal pipes if you want longevity.

Exactly!! I just love the knee jerk reactions some people have before they know all the facts.

To answer the rust question, water and WW must have a rust inhibitor added. They are available at the normal parts stores, Advance, etc.

Keep reading. It was in there, I haven't read it in a while. But last time I did, it was there in print. If it's not, it may have been accidently left out. Some times that happened on the new revisions.

The only reason to use anti-freeze is for sub 20deg. temp and for water pump lube/rust inhibitor. Water cools better.
I know the OP question has been answered. But as it often does, The thread took a turn went someone basically said. Just run anti-freeze anyways. Even after every other person brought up the dangers of doing so, he continues to say "screw you guy, I'll do what I want". It's not a knee jerk reaction, it is a deep concern that we all do the right thing.

It's a point of "Safety for all"! Just because you carry a loaded pistol with a hair trigger pointing it at people for years with out a problem. Dose not make it right nor safe.

Gian, you make some good points, however, to race successfully, you must know the rule book completely and be prepared to take advantage any way you can. Your altruism is notable but as I have said, I have provided an alternative...it is up to the individual to follow through or not. If you are not comfortable doing so, by all means don't. But don't condemn me for following the rule book!

Well Chuck, I understand the rules guide us all. I know them well being a National contender in both SCCA and NASA. Inside an out in fact. I've had a few changed in SCCA because they were wrong. But just like you have a bad taste in NASA, I have for SCCA. So I will leave you to do what ever you thing is right. Not like I going to change your mind anyway.

But for the rest that do use water in your cooling system. It's best to change your water/coolent every year. Distilled water can corrode, but hard water leaves calcium. Water wetter is basicly soap. Water pump lube will also leave deposits and gum up. Even coolant has it's problems. All cooling systems build electrolysis from the motion of the water passing through the system.
This electrolysis is what kills our cooling systems. The only way to get rid of it, is to drain it.

So it's best to drain the cooling system once a year. Some go as far as draining and putting pure coolant in the off season. Pickling it as it were.

Rocklobster...I'll be at Brainerd on labor day...come and visit!!

NASA actually now allows the racing version of evans coolant. You're welcome...

I've also never had corrosion issues with a full bottle of purple ice and straight soft water. But some guys want to run evans which in a rotary is a really good idea for a few reasons, hence the racing stuff they make.

Brained is a heck of a long haul from the south....what inspired such a trip?

Friend bought my ITA BMW and then had me build him a BMW Chump car. Also bought an ITS BMW. He came here to pick up the Chump and ITS cars and we went to Savannah to test/race. So I'm going up there for the labor day race. I get to drive 19 hours instead of 19 minutes!! Bucket list checked off.

Brainerd is a cool track, mix of technical new section and old school road course layout. You'll have fun.

Was there last Labor Day delivering my ITA car. Did drive track for a couple of laps. Very reminiscent of Roebling Road...mostly flat, some fast, some slow corners. Looking forward to the weekend.

If coolant isn't mentioned in the SCCA GCR or NASA rules you should also check the specific event supplementals. I'll bet you will find them there. The track owners know what chaos it will cause.