4g63 in a rx7
 

hi, i'm just curious if anyone has ever tried to put a 4g63 into a Rx7? that engine is very powerful and doesn't weigh that much more.....i'm thinkin about trying this next summer...does anyone know if the engine would match up to the tranny?

Isn't the 4G63 engine mounted in a transverse position?

i believe so...i realize that there would be a lot of custom work done...i'm just curious if the tranny from the car would fit to the 4g63...i mean those engines can produce 250 hp with jsut a few bolt ones...reliable to...and doesn't weight that much more...jsut an idea

I had a friend with a turbo eclipse.i think he was running about 500 awd hp.the engine was completely rebuilt and had all things done.his best run was 11.3.With a broke ass tranny.In a 3600lb car.I tell you one thing it would put my fd to shame.

well...thats pretty much y i'm lookin into this swap.....i know a lot about DSMs....not a lot about rotarys

You can't be serious. You'll end up wasting alot of money, I don't think its worth it. Why not get a 1g Talon/Eclipse and stick to what you know. It just makes more sense that way IMO.

because of the weight advantage...a good 300 pounds with a full interior....plus...u'll still have a better weight distribution...also....the power potiental and reliablity is a lot better...the stock engine can handle a lot of power and still run everyday...plus i like RWD better than AWD or FWD

the reliability? Come on.

You could just make an rx7 with the same power and same reliability. You just have to take care of it.

Ok you have got to be kidding. Wankel7's TII is doing over 200whp and he still had a catalitic converter!!

okay...my friends daily driver...with 170,000 miles...and 3,000 into it...made 310 at the wheels...through AWD...so what is that say conservatively 340 or 350 at the fly....and he drives it everyday and beats the crap out of it...for the past two years....i've owned my Rx7 for 2 weeks...it have a 140,000 miles on it...had a brand new engine put in at 120,000....i have the papers from the previous owner and all of the papers for the maintence......and the car has overheated 6 times on me...plus it has left me stranded 3 times...hence the reliablity issue....figure this...my friends same setup....500 pounds less....easily low 12s

OK, and you think a Mitsubishi engine is going to be reliable? Who do you think made most of the electronics that we have the most problems with?

Do what you want, but power, reliability, and a good price are not something that you can ever have altogether. When it comes to those three you can pretty much only pick 2, and Mitsus haven't struck high on the reliability mark, ever.

a 4G63 is a horrible motor, they are VERY WELL KNOWN for spitting balance shafts resulting in dropping the cam belt and you get a great pile of bent valves, a stuffed cylinder head and a new meaning of piston porting.........

horrible motor....where did u get that opinion from....if the timing belt is put on correctly....there is no problem....and the 4g63 is very reliable....i've been researching the 1st gen 90-94 eclipse for over a year...i just fell into gettin an Rx7...love the car...jsut need a lot more power....i've been lookin into doin a LS1 with a 6-speed. and u can have all three things together...buy a 1st gen eclipse for like 3000...put a 1000 into it...ur into the 13s....so if that isn't cheap..reliable and powerfull...i don't know what is

you could check with buschur racing for info on making the 4g63 a rwd affair. i know he used a powerglide on the rwd talon and plebani's old 4g63 starion. the 4g63 is a great motor and very reliable, it's just the transmissions and 2nd gen crankwalk problems that suck. dollar for dollar though the ls1 swap is where it's at.

thanks a lot

LOL, I'm loving all the misinformation on the 4G63. I'm not convinced that a 4G63 is the best swap, but it's a very capable engine, and very reliable on the stock bottom end. Do some research, the wide bell housing 4G63 will bolt directly to a TII transmission. Hard part will be sourcing the correct block (not from a Talon, which uses a narrow mounting, need to find a van or truck motor). Then pull the DOHC head and turbo setup from a DSM. Should be a very easy swap into an FC if it isn't too tall with the cam covers.

yeah...exactly...i know the engine is great....but i'm going to do the LT1 swap instead....with a 6-speed....about 285 hp....with another gear....not to mention there is a kit to install it...so thats my best option....but i love the sound of a turbo....who knows...maybe is a few years when i start my career....i could turbo the LT1 or supercharge it, but for now doubling the HP and almost tripling the toque should do fine

My brother has an 1st gen Talon and all I have too say is its pretty quick he has intake, mbc, full 3 inch exhaust, 2nd gen manifold, and a 16g turbo, its pretty quick.

Wow... There are alot of people on here who are pulling all sorts of shit out their asses. I happen to be a Mits. tech... I have never even heard of some of the things people are saying the 4G63 is "known for"... The 4G63 is an awesome motor. The newest version (LAN EVO VIII) happens to be the most powerful I4 on the market.

thanks u....to many people on here...pull shit out of their asses about motors they don't know shit about...stock internals can handle around 400hp....only problem i know of wih the motor....is if the timing belt isn't done right...it could jump off and bend all of ur valves

That can happen to any engine that uses a belt and has a valvetrain... The only thing the 4g63 is know for is crankwalk with the early 7bolt motors. They were in very late model 1Gs 2Gs and the JDM LAN EVO I-III. The LAN EVO IV started the current style. The tranny on the left side and the motor on the right. The only thing they are known for now is destroying transfer cases. LIke the blue one that is in our shop now...

LOL....i wonder if that is the guy from buschur's fourm...some guy was there complaining how he broke his transfer case in his evo

Might be...Transfercase problems are starting to arise in alot of evos though... This guy has a full Tein adjustable suspension, tubo timer, enkie race wheels and Takata harnesses, with some other minor stuff.... While the T case out though we put in a sprung 6 puck clutch, light weight alloy flywheel, and some JDM swaybars. This thing HANDLED like it was on rails. took a 90 degree turn at 30 MPH, NO body roll whatsoever. It stayed perfectly flat.

damn..thats like my 7...if it fuckin ran right...lol...yeah i wanted a DSm, but fell into a 7

I just found out that he (for warranty purposes) took out his fuel controller, FMIC, 3" exhaust, intake, BOV, and electronic boost controller...

so does that warrenty cover it still?...i just got from mazda, and they tell me my engine is gone, but some how i was able to drive home.....and they fucked up my car, it idles at like 100 now

has anyone done the swap to the 4g63. I am asking cause I own and work on my 2gen talon. I have a spare block and my friend has a spare 2gen rx7 body in his back yard?

To answer some wrong infomartion here.
Yes the 4g63 can be mount front to back, look at conquest, starions and the might max.
The balance belt problem is just the belt braking, which is my anyone who can swap out the balance, an easy 40 total.
As far as power goes, the 4g63 is the cheapest I4 to make power with, with just an exhaust, mbc, and intake, the cars have been know to make 250, and that can be done for less then $1000.

If you do it, it will be awesome. However, you are the first so that's a lot of details to wrap up. I think you would be much better off going with an engine that was designed for a longitudinal layout. If you want a turbo 4 cyl, I would suggest looking at the Nissan CA18 and SR20 series motors. These engines are also extremely bullet proof and also quite light. They have also already been swapped into RX7s so there is some kind of support out there for you. The CA18 would be my engine of choice if I had to go with a 4 cylinder. However, the LS1 would be my first choice. You can get them complete with their 6 speed transmissions for 2500-4000 easily. They also have about 300whp and 300+wtq stock and are totally reliable and more efficient than the 4 cyls. They do not sacrifice the handling charachteristics of the RX7 either. This is probably the best engine choice.

The 4G is a good engine, and stout for sure. I was a big DSM fan before I got into GM stuff.

There is one undeniable fact though. A small inline 4 making 500 HP is going to be more volatile and less reliable then a modern V8 making the same HP. Case in point, the well built 500 HP 4g63s running around are going to be less reliable then a well built 500 HP LS1. Period. It breaks down to the old adage, that in a maximum effort engine, there really is no replacement for displacement.

LS1 > 4g63

So has anyone ever done this before? Im very interested as I have alot of good dsm people around me that know these motors inside and out.

thanks

ryan

i work everyday tuning mitsi evo's mainly 4-9 (got a nine in a few weeks!), we've got about 1000hp flywheel (our demo evo6) and customers daily drivers 500/600 hp packages. seriously...reliability is not an issue if you tune them right.

I'll have a look at my 3rd gen rex box tomorrow and see how far out the bellhousings are!

ok, well one problem with you thinking, the 4g's motors do come longitudinal. Look at the Might Max, it has a longitudinal 4g(not a 4g63, but the 63 drops right in. Also look at the starion(sp).

Also, I built my 4g63, that in going into my talon for less then 2500, with forged internals, and the only reason that it cost so much was I could not sit around waiting to get a cheaper 6-bolt block.

There is a few reason I would rather do the 4g swap over the SRor CA motors.
1) the wide block 4g bolt up to a Tii tranny, which means less work when swaping.
2) parts are dirty dirty cheap, and since I race my talon, I can also swap out parts from it, to the rx7.
3) a stock 6-bolt has been proven to hold 300+ easy and there are more then 0ne person running 400ish on the stock bottom end.
4) last it would be unquie, different and fun, plus cheap(for me atleast, since I got a rx7 shell in my friends back yard, a head that needs to be rebuilt, and a spare turbo already, so I only need a tranny, and ecu(and all that junk) but I looking into running a AEM just to make the swap so much easier.

I am in the middle of moving from CO to GA so I can't start on the car yet, but we are going to start preping the rx7 come middle July for the swap, and as soon as I can get a cheap block, I will start recording my progress, but at the time the Talon and my friend's rx7 are in need of some TLC, to get his ready for Drifting and mine for rallycross.

if the TII tranny bolts right up to the 4G63, you'd think someone would have done the swap already. It seems like a long shot to me that a Mazda transmission is going to line up perfectly with a Mitsubishi engine. You could source a drivetrain from a Starion, but it would have to come from outside the states, right? That might be expensive.

If my memory serves me correctly, Chrysler made a car that was essentially a Starion in the late 80s. I believe it was called the Conquest TSi and came with a Turbo 4cyl. I'm not sure if this is the 4G63 though. Man that car is uglier than sin!

http://www.cfecorp.net/aj/Conquest06.JPG

Ok I looked it up and it came with a SOHC 2.6l Turbo 4cyl. However, the transmission might be worth a look. If you go with the tranny from a Mighty Max, how long do you think it would really last? The ratios might also not be favorable for an engine like the 4G63.

I've seen people bolt powerglides to the 4G63 coupled with a 9" Ford rear. Brent Rau and David Buschur are both running RWD 4G63 powered 2G DSM's, but I am unsure of the tranny's that they are running.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/show...&highlight=rwd
This thread might help you. :bigthumb:

There are two different blocks for the 4G family engines. One is the Narrow block that most are familiar with, and there is a 'wide' block that little people have known about until recently. Enter the B2600. Mazda's B2600 had a Mitsubishi made 2.6l bottom end in the 87-88 trucks. This is the same as the Starion 2.6l, but the kicker is that they all share the same bellhousing housing bolt locations. So in essence any Mits motor with the wide block config will bolt to any B2600 trans. Now the B2600 is an R series trans, the same as the TII and the FD. Swap the B2600 bellhousing to the TII or FD trans and bolt to a wideblock 4G. This has all been recently discovered, there are a couple people in the process now of hammering out the fine details. The bonuses are a couple good things. Like a 240mm clutch setup as opposed to the narrow 225mm setup. The best to me is the fact it's built out of cheap parts and less custom fabrication.

If you wanted to use the narrow block, you can use the mightly max trans but it is weak. The best solution there is the Mighty Max trans with the starion internals.

99gst_racer: Those people are all using autos. TH350 to be exact. Dave Buschur sells all the conversion parts on his page.

How strong is the B2600? How much HP and torque is it expected to hold?

Very interesting; looks like it could be fabricated fairly easy...... Thanks for the info. :cool:

I had A 1G DSM and I hated that car. I now have 2 RX-7's and I love them.

The B2600 trans can hold the same power as the TII or FD. They are all the same model R transmissions. The reason for the bell swap is for the gearing of the TII trans.

Not to be a party pooper, but this idea is silly.

#1: The cost of swapping a 4g63 into an Rx-7 would meet or exceed the cost of building the 13B. Stick with the 13B, or buy the 1st gen.

#2: This has been the first time ever I have heard the word "4g63" and "reliable" in the same sentence. DSMs are notorious for breaking down (around here we have almost exclusively 4g63 powered draggers, for the simple fact that they are cheap); and this is the only engine that I've ever even heard of crankwalking.

#3: 4g63's are definately not the most powerful I4: Let's not forget about STi here (but that's just semantics).

#4: There is nothing unique about +300hp 4g63's powering different cars; There have been Civic hatches, Starions, Mirages, even Metros.

#5: The Starion's tranny is different than the 4g63s; they are completely different and when a Starion owner wants to complete the swap they have to find and extensively modify a different tranny to fit in. I am still skeptical about the TII fitting a 4g63.

#6: You get thrown into a completely obscene class in any kind of racing event with such a swap. Any advantage you gained (which really only boils down to cheaper parts) is lost by competing against much higher class cars.

The point here is that the 13B is a completely viable engine (I'd actually call it more than viable) and you'd having better luck just sticking to that. If you really want to take the trouble and money for a 4g63 powered car, then there are better (lighter) platforms to build off of!

HAHA. Yeah, thats always the joke on the DSM forums too. :D

Yes, the earily 7-bolt motors did have crankwalk issues (95-96 models), but who in their right mind whould ever swap a earily 7-bolt into anything. The 1G 6-bolt motor is the commonly swapped motor and it definitely does not have CW issues.
PS - There has been other motors that have crankwalked. Infact anything with a crankshaft has the possibility of walking. The 95-96 model DSM's were just more commonly known for it.

The STi motor is a flat-four, not an I4. The flat-four is more of a V6 minus 2 cylinders than anything.

The unique thing is that it only takes a couple hundred bucks (and a little bit of hillbilly engineering) to make a 15 year old DSM make 300HP. Ever built a Honda up to 300 HP? It take thousands upon thousands.

A buddy of mine has wanted to do this swap for quite some time. He just fired up his LT1 swap this past weekend so ya'll keep hush-hush about this, ok? ;)

Great swap ideas! I'm seeing more and more swap ideas popping up and it just makes me think of the old school hot rodders who did the same thing to fat fendered cars back in the day. Take a strong V8 out of anything and squeeze it between the framerails for a fun car. I've seen '29 Model A Fords with just about every engine you could imagine stuffed in them.

All I can say is, if you've got a swap idea for your RX-7 (or any car for that matter) - DO IT! Put your ideas in motion.

any more updates on this?

there is a guy here in cleveland doing this. if you ask me this is absolutely brilliant!!! dont get me wrong I love the rotary but in all honesty if you want big power and reliability then the 2 rotor 13B is crap. the most you can possibly make reliably on a 2 rotor is 400whp and thats it (and this isnt even completely reliable). with a 4G you can make 500, 600, and even 700whp much more reliably then a rotary ever will.

Also it would cost ALOT more to make these numbers with a LS1 then a 4G.

Iam seriously looking into it for my 3rd gen. All youd need besides the bellhousing off the turck and flywheel with starter off a starion would be custom motor mounts and some electrical work. welcome to reliable high hp #'s.

I like 4G63s and all, but more money for 500-700 RWHP for an LS1? I'm at ~3000 dollars in my engine/tranny setup, and looking at ~700 RWHP on squeeze. I'm curious to see a 4G with that much reliable power.

check this site for RWD 4g63
http://www.projectzerog.com/forum/

4g63 or 4g64 (wide block) + B2600 bellhousing + TII trans = RWD 4g63

a 2.4L (4g64) with a 2.0L (4g63) head and crank equals 2.1L of high revving goodness. Now use a transmission that can operate at that high of a RPM (say an RX7 tranny?) and you have got yourself one killer ride :D

im putting a TII tranny in my starion with a 4g64 right now

the guy who built my car does alot of turbo kits for EVO's he kept telling me he wanted to put one of their motors into somthing because they are pulling some crazy #'s from them on stock bottom ends. while it would be alot of work and kinda "wrong", i won't deny that it would be fast. case in point, friend of mine is running a gt35r on his stock bottom end evo, today he just ran an 11.1 @131

someone hasn't been seeing the results of the natioinal evo sti shootouts