4th Generation Rx-7
 

Hey everyone, I just joined rx7club.com so as you may have noticed I havent gotten around to customizing my profile or adding pics of my fb. Since this is my first thread I thought I'd take a second to say "hey" to everyone.

Now, a bit more on topic, I was wondering if anyone out there had info about the hopfully soon to be released 4th gen rx-7. I've looked into it online with little results. I guess it can be said that mazda's good at keeping their secrets a secret. Here's what I do know as well as some of the speculation i've heard/read.

Here's some info I found in an old article on rotorynews.com:

In the "Sneak Peeks" section of the Detroit News Autos Insider, an "artist" has photochopped together what they believe to be the RX-7 Cabrio. They basically took an image from the first prototype RX-8, enlarged the grill and vents, modified the head lights, removed the top, and added new wheels.

""Mazda planners are still in heavy discussion regarding the return of the sporty RX7, but sources tell us if it is resurrected, the fourth generation RX7 will arrive as a two-door, two-seat version of the new RX8. Shown here are artist renderings of the RX7 Cabrio. But don't place your orders yet -- we don't believe this sporty two-seater will arrive before late in the 2006 model year, or possibly as a 2007 model."

We, at Rotarynews, were privy to a little more information. We were told the RX-7 prototype would not debut until the 2005 Tokyo Autoshow, as there are those within Mazda that feel the debut of a concept RX-7 would hurt sales of the RX-8, even though the RX-8 is supposed to be in a different "new" market segment. We could see some different concept Rotaries in Tokyo 2003, but the concepts would be the engines themselves, and probably put in the RX-8, as a Mazdaspeed model."
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...x7convrear.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...200502_rx7.jpg

http://rotarynews.com/images/fullsize/200502_rx7.jpg

I was also in contact with a guy who used to race rx-7s who was in the area where mazda was testing the new 4th gen. He wasn't allowed to see it for himself but from the sound of it he thinks it might have been supercharges.
This raises the possiblity that the new 4th generation rx-7 will be equiped with a supercharged renisis engine (dude!).

Anyway there's all the info I have regarding it. Keep in mind that the pics shown are an artists rendition of what it may look like and isn't a picture of an acual 4th gen. Despite my best attempts I couldn't find one. If any of you has information or comments regarding the 4th gen please post them here.

Well, even though the topic of a 4th gen 7 has been beaten to death, this is the first time I've seen pictures associated with the info. Honestly, I think it looks alright. They need to bring back the pop-up headlights and loose the cup holders, though, for it to be a true 7 at heart...

Its that a Aprils Fools Day thing just posted late? The first images just looks like a RX-8 Concept with the top chopped, and the 2nd images is a RX-8 with the doors marks taken out for suicide style, headlights coverd, and I think those are the X-Men RX-8 Rims.

Edit:Just noticed he said it was a old Article.

There was also rumors out of Mazda that the 4th Gen 7 would be sporting a 1.6L two rotor N/A that would produce 300bhp in stock form. That was released about 6 months ago, but we all know how those rumors end up being garbage. Just thought I would share the little bit of info that I have heard.

Zach

I think mazda should just leave the rx7 as we all remember it and turn this (if produced) into the sec. gen rx-8. They should just keep the rx's going. Thats all that matters to me. After all with all the new R&D to rotary engines theres no telling where we will go in the future.

Fingers Crossed
 

I, like everyone on this board, would love to seen a next gen 7. In all likelihood, I would buy it. Of course, I'm assuming big power and great looks.

The bigger displacement n/a idea sounds real good to me - especially if it puts out 300 hp. Hopefully, as it is produced, it would be a solid/stable platform - and it should leave a lot of room for crazy aftermarket power.

Remember how you felt when you first saw the 3rd gen? I do, and I revered it as an exotic. Well, the next gen has an obligation to do the same. Sadly, I have to say that any mutation of the 8 would not cut it.

Just to clearify things incase i wasn't specific enough, those pics were an artists rendition of what he (or they) thought it might look like. I don't know how much valitity there is in the design of the pics.
I do also agree that a two seater rx-8 wouldn't live up to the rx-7 name. It'll have to be a new design and if it's based on anything then it should be based on the other rx-7s.

I know this will probably never happen but anyone ever wonder what it'd look like if they made a retro designed to look alot like the first gen. I mean, i know that the 2nd and 3rd do resemble it in some ways but it'd be cool to see what they could come up with. Just thinking aloud...er um...in text...

oh and sorry if this topic has infact been beaten to death, I did a search and didn't come up with a whole lot, and i thought that if anyone had some info i'd be the rotor-heads on this forum.

The increased displacement idea does make sense. That way they could keep the reliability of an N/A motor and still pull the horsepower numbers that the car would need to be competitive with what else is offered on the market today. Just my .02 anyway.

Zach

I disagree. I realize that It would suck if Mazda came out with, at the very least, a really ugly sports car and called it an Rx-7 but I kinda doubt that'll be the case. I mean look at the previous three Rx-7s they've produced.

As for it just being a 2nd gen Rx-8 I don't think that would be right either. Out of all the Rx's the Rx-7 was designed as The rotory sports car. Correct me if i'm wrong here but didn't most, if not all, of the Rx's before the 7 have piston counterparts? When Mazda created the Rx-7 they promissed to never equip it with pistons. The Rx-7 is a legend. Sure it's not as well known as a shit load of other cars but it was the car that saved the rotory engine and saved Mazda. It is because of this that the Rx-7 name can't be something that is just left in the past and forgotten.

Sorry if that was a little long winded but I tend to get carried away when talking about Rotorys. Lets see how many corrections I get about things I've said hahaha.

Other than that I just wanted to say, More info! Someone out there has to know something about the 4th gens. Post it!

The first picture is of the prototype 3rd gen Miata that has now been shown to the public but not yet released for sale. The second picture was from the RX-8 forum about a year or so ago. There was a thread on there that asked what people thought a 4th gen RX-7 could like like if it was based off of an RX-8 but with 2 doors. That was one of the pictures that a forum member made. The 4th gen is still nothing more than rumors and wishes.

i kinda liek the way that 2 door rx8 styled one looks the vert is butt-ugly though

What strikes fear in piston owners...

RX7

I always get "don't those things run like 13's stock?" :P if he only knew my 5th & 6th ports aren't opening!

- Tech

LOL, get 'em working man or pull them out, oyu can have mine when i go turbo :D
- Jared

Dave Morris writes in: "There's a new RX-7 on the way. Senior Mazda engineers revealed key details during animated after dinner conversation at the October long range preview of the RX-8 in Hiroshima. The blueprint for the car is complete and the new two seater will share major systems with the RX-8. But while the new RX-7 will utilise the same elegant double A-arms front and five link rear suspension as the RX-8, as well as it electrically assisted rack and pinion steering, it will have a more powerful rotary engine. Instead of turbocharging the RX-8's 184kw Renesis rotary, Mazda is developing its largest ever two rotor mill, the power target is atleast 206kw.

"Mazda has always increased rotor width (similar to increasing cylinder bor and stroke in a conventional piston engine) in 10mm steps. The 10A engine had 60mm wide rotors, the 12A went to 70mm and the 13B twin and 20B triple rotor were 80mm, so it's a pretty safe bet the new rotors will go to 90mm.


"Assume the RX-7's Renesis will breathe as efficiently and rev as hard as the RX-8 emgine, and a quick calculation shows the capacity increase should deliver about 206kw - bang on the number suggested by Mazda's excited engineers. Making two rotors 10mm wider makes the engine just 20mm longer. That won't bother Mazda's packaging engineers, who will repeat the "front midship" engine placement of the RX-8 in the new RX-7. While the RX-7 will sit on a shorter wheelbase of 2400mm or less, it's two seat format means accomadating a slightly longer rotary behind the front axle won't be a problem."

It is abit interesting looking. It reminds me alot of the S2 and S3 RX-7 (81-85) .
Just the way the body looks, it looks like the cabin is more towards the back like the first Gen.

Oh well, like others have posted before I think the legendary RX-7 ended with the 2002 RX-7 Spirit R, because Mazda said the wanted to go out with a bang and boy did they with the Spirit R :eek:.

But I personaly don't care to much for the RX-8 with the 4 seat and 4 door design. more of a sports coupe than sports car.

Oh well,

-Dan

><
 

They should stop the RX7 line as it is, fucking ford owns mazda now :( keep the RX7's to original mazda exclusively!

Um, ford owned mazda when the 3rd gen came out. Ford saved Mazda's ass when it had poor sales in the mid 90s. Ford lets mazda run as mazda wants to, but mazda saves time and money by robbing the ford parts bin. This allows the mazda engineers to better spend their time on what really matters: chassis, engines, crash test safety, etc.

No turbo = no 7

I think a 3 rotor NA would kick ass.....

3 rotor turbo but ...............would it chase the new vette's styling? I mean since the F D came out and the vette looked like it years later.

I think it will resemble an rx-8, being that it would be built off the same chassis and all. Just speculation....

I'm going to give mazda the benifit of a doubt and say that they're not dumb enough to make it a mini rx-8.
Anyone who's talked to an rx-7 enthuseist knows better.
besides, from what i hear, the rx-8 chasis is highly adjustable. So just becuase it'll likely built on an rx-8 chasis doesn't necisarily mean it'll look anything like the rx-8.

Will someone find some hard facts already?? Sheesh its killing me... Here I am toiling with the idea of buying an FD and then mazda give half-assed news reports that say a new one is coming out!!! I want an FD, but I would hate to buy one then have mazda release a new, faster, more reliable version like a few months afterwards. Is it coming out or isnt it?

Don't count on it
 

I personally think we will not see the FE until around 2008. This would mark the glorious return of the RX-7 on its 30th birthday. I hope not but seeing how Mazda is this may very well be the case. My two cents on the motor. I really like the idea of a realiable 300hp rotary, but who is mazda intending this car to run with? The new mazda 6 will be pushing 274 hp with 280 ft-lbs of torque on an AWD setup meaning it will be able to beat the seven off the line, and with no turbo spooling in the upper RPM for the 1.6, the Mazda 6 could very well beat the new 7 on any given day. And there are horror reports of the new mark 5 supra pushing 500 hp!!! I really think mazda is going to have to supercharge or turbocharge their 1.6 for it to be a contender. Like I said just my two cents.

the mazdaspeed 6 runs a 15.1 in the quarter... its a dog. It's heavy and probably has a peaky powerband.

Mazda has a 3 rotor based on renesis (side ports) technology in one of their race cars... its pushing 425 horsepower. I see that as a contendor for the new rx7

Those same rumors claim the next supra will have a v10, I'll believe it when I see it.

FINALLY someone w/ common sence, keep the same size rotors and displacement per housing, and add a rotor. Open up the ports a bit, let it breath easier...boom ~350 n/a 3 rotor. it could sit low enough to keep the weight distribution while extending the length of the hood if neccesary.

We'd have a reliable 300+hp rotary vehicle...if you want to go turbo, i'm SURE greddy and the like will make them for you. Let everyone else have their reliable car.

Plus, theoritically, some of the parts could be interchangeable, rotors for example. So mazda doesnt have to design larger rotors and housings. Seems like it'd be a waste to design just a larger rotary engine, when they already have a great design, just needs some freshing up like the old 13b did, same displacement, a LOT more power.

hell what do i know.

The other benefit to more rotors rather than bigger would me more port area without shity timing. Kinda like having a 3 litre v10 instead of a 3 litre 6.

I very seriously doubt mazda will be making a larger 2 rotor. This would cause all those problems you said, plus, the redline would be lower because the e-shaft would be shorter and flex more... the apex seals would be heavier and chatter earlier in the RPM band... etc.

I know mazda has the 3 rotor race engine based on the renesis, and I am pretty sure this is where they will develop this engine before offering it to the public through the rx7. Just some my hunch though, but this is from judging mazda in the past and understanding some of the engineering side of it as well...

It'll probably come out in 2008, for it's 30th b-day, or soon after the MKV, and also coming out with a 3 rotor wouldn't be bad, I mean ain't people have been making 13G's for years now? also I think they should come out with a Turbo and a N/A, cuz if it just comes out N/A, a turbo system is gonna be really expensive, so it would kinda suck, besides factory turbo engine is always better than N/A convertion.....but tahst just my opinion...

-Nil

I'd love to see a new 12a myself. I'm sure mazda could make on hellova 1146cc rotory engine these days. Just imagine it. Or even a new 13b, I'm not a big fan of bigger rotary engines. I mean theres cars putting out 450+rwkW from cosmo 13bt's. They don't need to make the engine longer!

Imagine a modern styled gen1 replacement, with freshly designed fuel injected 12AT. , no power steering, 4 big disks, and 14" rims all round. Could be the new pocket rocket we all want. They can skimp on the *features* to give it lower power, and better balence for all I care.

I'm so glad Mazda came out with the rx8 and didn't call it a 7. This gives them the potential to build a true sports car and call it a 7 in the future. The 8 is a sports/luxury car.

A 3-rotor Renesis based engine would be great BUT it'd be much longer and heavier than a 2-rotor of 1.5 or 1.6L displacement.

I also wanted to comment that using the RX-8 chassis will not make it look like an RX-8, the exterior body panels are responsible for looks. Just take the next-gen Miata as an example, it's using a shorter RX-8 chassis.

What Mazda should do for simplicity and cost effectiveness is reuse the RX-8 chassis (albeit shorter), suspension geometry and electric steering and the Renesis engine, this will save the costs of making everything new. Make it lightweight of about Miata weight (2400-2700 lbs) and retune the Renesis to the original 280 hp it's capable of putting out N/A.

They should also offer an optional low boost (for reliability) electrically assisted turbocharger like the one used on the Hydrogen RX-8 to bump the power to about 330-350 hp with no lag.

Now about looks... They already have the perfect winning formula of one of the most beautiful sportscars ever, the FD! They shoud just freshen up the 3rd gen's looks and adapt it to the new chassis without making it drastically different or too similar to the RX-8 or the new Miata.

Heck, I'd even buy it if they just brought back the Spirit-R with an OBDII/CAN bus Renesis based, more powerful and reliable powerplant!! With all the already existing aftermarket support it would be a dream!

"Heck, I'd even buy it if they just brought back the Spirit-R with an OBDII/CAN bus Renesis based, more powerful and reliable powerplant!! With all the already existing aftermarket support it would be a dream!"


WELL SAID!

I personally believe that the new 7 will have a turbo version of the existing Renesis engine. The new 7 will have about 330bhp. Its logical. Its fysical. Latest FD (Spirit R) had more than 290bhp dynoed (not in papers- jap laws etc). The new 7 will have at least +40bhp (just like the first version FD had 40bhp more than the latest FC version).
It is also easy for the factory to built same block, housings, rotors, etc for 2 assemply lines. Very important when you are trying to make o profitable model.
Lets wait and see. The thing I like most: The RX7 WILL HAVE a 4th GEN model...

Very complex really subject

- It has to be faster than the new 6 MPS, RX8 MPS (if it finally gets the go ahead)
- It has to be cost effective
- It must not cannibalise other model sales, including Ford models
- Aggresive pricing
- It has to be faster and better than the FD, very hard thing to do at low cost as many things have changed since then
- RX8 Suspension / Chassis needs major reworking for FD performance

What is truly the upside ? Probably not profit, but Brand image

In a nutshell, i think the 4th Gen will just be a spin off product of the SE3P platform which will be marketed really strongly, but bottom line will not be a true successor to the FD...yes it will have the name but...

Where did you get this from? The RX-8 Chassis and Suspension Geometry are much more advanced than the FD's. Chassis is stronger, stiffer and the suspension is better.

WTF?

Chassis is stronger? Says who? This is by far WRONG. Should I remind you that the RX8 does NOT has a central column and a wide opening for the 2 doors?

Personal experience: I was at a workshop and an RX8 came to change exaust, put the Greedy SP2. while lifting the car the RX8 chassis actualy BENT and keep bent-ing... LOL! The guy who was lifting the car actually got scared and leave it...

"Suspension Geometry are much more advanced than the FD's"
MAJOR, MAJOR fault. Who said this (x2)? The double wishbones all around are STILL the greatest way to contact the road. Why Ferrari, Lamborghini, Mercedes (SLR), Lotus, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Maserati, Porsche (Carrera GT) etc, prefer double wishbones? NOT because they are WORSE than multilink I suppose.

Enough said... FD3S is BEYOND at chassis and suspension from the RX8. Yes, you could say that RX8 has better electronics. Yes you could say that RX8 has better brakes. Yes you could say that RX8 has better plastics, etc. But not the chassis, not the suspesion...

-the 3 rotor engine Mazda is currently using in their race car is NOT a renesis; it is P-port just like all their previous race engines. I believe they call it a Renesis for marketing purposes.

As for wider chambers vs more rotors, my bet is that they add an additional rotor. I know a couple people, all drag racers, that claim to be using a new 3 rotor E-shaft made by Mazda. It is supposed to be stronger, lighter, and made out of a different material. I find it hard to believe Mazda would go through the trouble of developing it for only a handful of drag racers.

Where did you get this from? The RX-8 Chassis and Suspension Geometry are much more advanced than the FD's. Chassis is stronger, stiffer and the suspension is better.

I think topaz more than answered that for you !!!! I could not agree with him more (other than for the brakes which are amazing on the FD)

Mazda has done a superb marketing tour de force with the RX8 - it is a superb value for money car, much more reliable than an FD with modern gimickry...and there is where it ends

the torsional rigidity of the RX-8 is 30,000 Nm/degree, TWICE as torsionally rigid as the 3rd gen RX-7 even without a center pillar.

The suspension geometry is based on the FD but improved, in stock form is softer for better ride though.

Steering system and brakes are improved as well.

All it needs is 2 less seats and doors, less weight, more power, stiffer suspension and a different body to become the next RX-7

As everyone is awaiting for the 4th gen rx7, living in/out of Japan for the past 18 years...the new rx7 will debut late 2006 as a 2007. The concept was based off the rx8, where if sales failed the japanese market, the head marketing department would of eventually end the rotary engine...but due to reasonable sales(mostly towards the mid 40's consumers), the rx7 will do anothe run for 3 more years(07, 08, 09). In Japan, the rx8 will need to run for at least 3 years(04,05,06) until the switch to the new rx7. As for what look for in the new Rx7...no pop up lights since they are now illegal in Japan. As for engine size...there is a possibility on a 15b. Don't be suprised to see Mazda releasing a turbo charged rx8 for a 2006 model...but of course we all know that the maximum efficient boost level for the rx8 is only 0.4.
i figure to drop my info which my resources is from inside sources from chiba, japan...

The Greddy kit is set for 0.5 bar (7 psi) as packaged but there are people already boosting 0.7 (10 psi) with it and there's a custom turbo RX-8 pushing 1.3 bar (19 psi and 400 whp) :bigthumb:

if you ask me, the fd3s suspension set up is perfect, double wishbone front and rear are the latest tech in development. why degrade to a multilink?

The Rx-8 Has better suspension geometry than the FD.

While I agree with the rest of your points for the most part, this one is partially wrong. While it's true it can't compete with other mazda models, they don't have to worry about competing against fords models.

Mazda has a sedan, coupe, minivan, suv, etc that already compete with fords, I don't think there's going to be a problem with the RX7 competing with fords.

The only ford model that would be close would be the mustang, but ford sells 100 of thousands of those a year, really a different market than a new RX7 would be in.

I was at the Mazda Dealership this mourning in Alahambra, CA gettting my MX-5 a Tune up and the Guy there was talkinga bout the "2007 RX-7". He was like "yea The new RX-7 is gonna kick ass but the problem is that its pricey" so i guess their already making plans for it. He said its around 300-320 HP with officlal HP at 314 from wat he knew.
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...d=112475&stc=1

nasty...

Its not as bad as the other "Concepts" that are out there.

from what i remember reading comparing the fd to the 8 they put a rx-8 vs a S6 rx-7(255 hp) i believe this was by mazda in japan and they put them on a track and the rx-8 was faster in the corners the the 7 but in the straights the 7 would leave the 8