whatto do
 

So I just picked up a s4t2 long block and tranny. Should I put it in my FB? I kinda want to, but I just dropped $700 on a new na exhaust system... Hrm. opinions? The car is super fun as it is na. It's got too much power for the suspension setup as it is. I don't know I don't know...

You just spent 700$ on a NA exhaust system? Was that like 100$ for every 1 rwhp you gained? That is just silly. There is nothing like boost. You think your car is super fun NA, you have no idea what boost is like. Make sure to bring a couple paper towels to clean up after your first pull.

$700 NA exhaust. lol nice.

Whats wrong with dropping $700 on an NA exhaust? That's how much I paid for mine. There's more to an exhaust than just performance, you also buy it for looks and sound. If you wanna be cheap sure you can have one made for a couple hundred but you get what you pay for

To each their own. I find it futile and borderline useless to spend money other than maintenance to get performance out of an NA motor. Unless for some reason you are racing in a specific class, just daily drive like a grandma (at witch case you would not need an upgraded exhaust), possibly have emission problems, or your aunt was killed by a stock exhaust in some freak accident, it just doesn't seem logical to spend that much money on an NA. Maybe it is just my location or I am just lucky, but I have all my exhaust (unless already close to what I want when I take it off another turbo application) custom built or modified for barely over the price of the muffler/s. I'm sure you could take that thing to a shop hyper and have someone mate it to either a stock, or after market turbo downpipe for stupid cheap. Don't let the idea of having to completely throw away your exhaust not let you enjoy how a rotary is meant to be run. :D Just modify the front 1/10th of the thing.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my NAs back in the day. I thought I was fast as sheit and loved it. Now days I have seen the light, and can't imagine how wrong I was. Turbo rotary has most likely ruined any other engine/NA setup for me in the future. :( I'm sure something else will come (most likely a turbo lsX lol) and make me feel stupid for ever messing with the wankle. :P

Do what cha want, it's your car. You asked for our opinions, you have mine.

(The whole you get what you pay for doesn't fly for me in exhaust. It's a pipe. A tube of metal..... Yes some are chromed and some are bent by different types of machines. In the end, it is a tube of metal.)

I'm pretty sure Adrian does, in fact, have an idea of what boost is like. :)

adrian is asking a question he already knows the answer to.

Oh. :wallbash: lol. Sometimes a guy just needs attention. :lol:

made me: :lol::lol::lol::lol:

but that's all you get... zee vest, zee vest it was uzeless... no soup for you!

Love my NA... love them corners. If i want to be fast in an rx7, ill drive a volvo. hater topic hijack city started

**** love you tweak*****:)

Well if it was a 20B NA, I can totally understand spending $700. :P

Completely out of context. :lol: :icon_tup:

Amen Tweak, I don't get it either..... If its not saving weight, adding downforce,
or increasing hp enough to justify said weight, I don't want it on my car. Course
I don't DD mine, so I guess I'm a pretty picky about what I get. It doesn't need
to look nice or be legal.

Adrian, just curious, but how much weight did your exhaust save/add to your set?

Opinion: Invest in your suspension first, brakes next, rebuild that S4 while ur
doing the other two, then drop it in later. You can save yourself a lot of heartache if
you build it up while you do other things, then have a good to great car to plug it into,
instead of scrambling afterwards to handle the sudden boost in performance.

Just my humble opinion, but I'd rather have a great suspension setup, with good
braking capabilities first, before hp/tq.

I've built more turbo cars then i want to talk about. I know boost. I've owned 2 turbo FB's in the past. And usually the engine was jsut too much for what the chassis was capable of. That's why I decided to try my hand at a fully built NA setup. And This car makes so much power I've blown two transmissions and a LSD, so don't dis NA until you've tried it. My suspension is good, it's just a FB suspension, so it sucks... That exhaust actually gained me over 20whp. You get what you pay for, becasue NA power is all in exhaust tuning! You can buy a RB exhaust and make 125 whp or build a custom exhaust tuned for your port and make over 200whp. Hop over to the NA performance section. There are guys making 400whp with periported 13b's now. 13b Bridges making over 300whp @ only 8500 rpm is now not uncommom. Stock port guys are making over 200 to the wheels and street port guys getting clost to the 250 mark.

My new exhaust is much lighter then the RB bullshit that was on the car before. It's a RE RR header with an ISC centersection, and 3" after that. It's sounds fu(king amazing and pulls happily to 8500 rpm. Oh the sweet revs of a NA 7. I guess you couldn't understand my delima until you've driven both a built na and a built boosted 13b. The brute force and torque of the streetported 13bt I had was fun, but it didn't have the pure horse power up top like my na setup. hey both are completely different driving experiances, and that's what I can't decide on. Which driving experiance I enjoied more. Plus any Turbo FB raced in any sacntioned body automatically goins into some shitty MOD class where you have to race against stupid tube chassis cars, formula carts, and such. I want to auto X the car competivly in some class.

Wow, did someone actually hit 400 on an NA 13B? I remember Judge Ito figured he'd be able to get that high with his semi-PP motor with higher-compression rotors and methanol, but that was a while ago, so I don't know if he ever tried it.

There are a few guys out there hitting that now. Some in Auzzyland, and a few in FL. Turned out that all the extra power was in exhaust and intake tuning. lol

I'm not really surprised. :)

If you want my opinion, I'd build a nice NA engine. I'd like to do one myself after I've tried the boost thing for a while. I like the concept of semi-peripheral ports, maybe with a shutter valve to close off the peripheral ports at low load for smoother cruising.

Well, I guess if you can't handle the power, than stick with the NA. :P lol.

I don't quite understand how you can justify "the brute force and torque of the streetported 13bt I had was fun, but it didn't have the pure horse power up top like my na setup." The NA setup is still making tons less hp than the NA up top, unless you have some weird as tiny turbo and you're revving to some ridiculous high RPM. The only way I could think that you are saying a turbo 13b setup doesn't have the pure hp up top would be because you have shitty suspension + tires and can't put the tires down. I saw your last dyno, ok cool you made some power up top as you got higher in the rpm range, but I'm pretty sure you didn't make 1/2 the power anywhere above 4000 rpm as my setup. (not trying to say I have a bigger dick or anything, I am just crushing your power up top statement.)

You can say, there are some extreme 300 rwhp bridge port NA, and 400 rwhp NA p-ports, but there are some 780 rwhp stock port turbo, and 1000+ bridge and p-port turbos also. :P

My opinion is, if you have the ability to turbo why not? What is so omg bad about it? Don't have the money? ok. Don't have the need for power? Ok. But if you are going to go race someone with any car you access to, are you going to pick your friends stock geo? Why purposely make things much harder on yourself to make power? Maybe you are just like Arron Cake; where you do things the harder way just to prove people wrong?

Other than the factors of money/income, passing emissions, simply not needing the power like 99.999% of the people, and having the time, tools, or knowledge of doing the swap or build, there are no excuses NOT to put a turbo on. If you don't have the money, have strict CA emissions, don't need the power, or don't have the time, knowledge, or tools to do a nice turbo build, then your stuck. Be happy with your NA rx7 and drive it. We would all love 4 rotor turbo p-ports, but my last name isn't Gates and I have yet to receive my bailout.

(I would like to add, that obviously there is a limit for each chassis. I have yet to be in a high powered FB (or really an FB at all) so I really can't give my opinion on that. So another thing to add to why you shouldn't is that no amount of drive skill will allow you to keep control of the car because of the sheer power, and the ridiculously old or bad suspension / technology is the limiting factor. All of which can be fixed by throwing money at it, so it again still has to do with money.)

Pops some popcorn, watchin the show.

Can I be tabby!?

that first sentence is funny cuz adrian has had hella turbo cars. turbo fbs too. the white one you had with the nihongo-intermediate driver sticker was sick.

and my 2cents:

keep it na

no better feeling that beating a boosted out car with a n/a 12a

Solution build a 4 rotor and only turbocharge 2 of them

That was a retarded comment. Funny though

What boosted car are you beating with a n/a 12a again? A parked one? :lol: And no that (insert boosted car here) was not really racing you.

Adrian, my thoughts.

If you are building it to autocross, keep it NA, talk to JEB and Scott about suspension and tires.

Then he should know better by now! lol
hes felt the power, now he cannot ignore it! turbo is the only way to truely fuel his addiction!!! haha

+1, seriously. The real question I guess on everyones mind is what's your
"ultimate plan" with the car? Track? DD? Weekend fun car? I mean everyone
here can talk themselves blue in face and none (or few) really know wtf your
intentions for the car is.

I still firmly vote that you upgrade your suspension 1st brakes second.

aaaaannnnddd the winner for the stupidest fucking post on rx7club.com goes tooooooo

Lol. Awww did someone's feelings get hurt. :hippie: Ok, I take it back, the 220 rwhp (what ever) really was racing your 130 hp NA 12a. You won ... seriously, you did.

this is the last post i will make on this thread

tweak, i hope it helps you sleep at night knowing that you can talk shit on a forum.

im done with your e-condescending attitude, get a fucking life!

http://rookery2.viary.com/storagev12...2_bce7_sqr.jpg

Wow, need to change your pad? Need a tissue? Can't take any constructive criticism eh? Maybe a little insecurity problem there bud? Saying that you lost a race with your 12a must have hit a sore spot. Teh 7 can't lose!

Anyways. We all know you're going to go (back to) turbo. Just do it drama queen. :D

lol, tj you need another FB

for real. ive been looking at some bikes lately. the new ktm duke 690 is sickkk. ive noticed all the fbs on craigslist are hella expensive lately. what used to be a g is two or three these days.

im gonna be in kirkland later, we should get into some trouble tonite!

*thread jackkkkk*

What cause I'm Puerto Rican I've gotta be the brown cat? I see how it is Adolf!!!:lol:
The difference is that turbo cars are limited by the turbo. They're great felling that spool and kick in the ass, but it sucks when you start rev it up and it falls off on the top end. then if you want a turbo that isn't going to fall off on the top end you've got to deal with lag. My current car hits hard at 5500 rpm and pulls all the way to 8500 with no issues, plus it drives great and has enough mid range torque to get me around fine. But damn It's just so east to make 300whp when you're turbo.
My last turbo FB got to breath through these.
http://www.nopistons.com/forums/post-a39096-.html
http://www.nopistons.com/forums/post-a39093-.html
http://www.nopistons.com/forums/post-a39094-.html
There is no FIX for the FB's suspension problems. Jim Susco has worked out some amazing work arounds but they were desigend in the 80's and any "real" fix outs you into a mod class in any series. Basically this car's goal is to be fast with class. I want to keep it fullinterior and beat every 09 M3 stat. inbreaking, lateral G, quarter mile, and i want to do it on street tires.

:lol:

Yeah, you know what I am going to say. First only the stock turbo's drop off because of the stupid old wastegate design. Second, since you are making your power sooner and more of it, you don't have to rev to 8.5k. (That's a good thing for all the rotards that think we can still rev to 12k just fine.)

Third, even IF you had a turbo that fell off on the top end, you are still making TONS more power than if you were NA. Here is one of my retarded dynos (11 psi) (that you were at Hyper.) My turbo is .84 A/R so it SHOULD be falling hard after 6,500 rpm (Or so I have been told many time.) My tach was off 500 rpm from the dyno so I thought I was reving to 7,500 but I really wasn't. lol. (The point is, why do you need to wrap it out to 8,500 rpm if you can make the same HP sooner and in a much safer RPM?)

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...0&d=1226298635

Where again does your NA make more power? Oh you have to have a p-port/bridge and rev it out the moon? That sounds reliable, cheap, and great for driving around town with your 2k rpm idle. :D

It's an obvious decision I still don't understand what you could possible be hung up on. Sorry if my e-attitude and opinions has caused any other small children to cry uncontrollably.

P.S. You're Puerto Rican? I really did not notice that or get that vibe... maybe because it was dark out...? Then again, I wouldn't know if someone was Puerto Rican if they walked around with a shirt and 8 ft. sign that said they were Puerto Rican.

I've got the money knowlege and know how, but both have their advantages, and disadvantages.
I guess the main reason I want to stay NA is becasue all of the modern card are making reat numbers NA and I want to prove th little old 13b can too since noone else is doing it on the west coast. Nothing is better than beating that 300whp turbo honda with my NA FB. 200whp and slicks on an FB will yeild 12 second passes. I bet I make more power at 8500 rpm than you doo. My engine is kinda built. It's balanced for 9500, it's just not tuned for it.
Myths that have all been disproven within the last few years. Tunning has changed the whole game man. For a rotard you sure are parroting some old myths my friend. I don't know why I'm fighting it... I guess it's just habit. I know what i can do with a turbo I've done it quite well in the past. I guess I just want the NA bragging rights. It's so funn smoking someone and they expect NO2 or boost and I pop the hood and my engine bay is so empty. It's great! lol... I need to go for a drive with Aaron. After he crushes me then I guess I'll get that drive for boost again. I had it a few months ago, but again the issue is classing the car once it's turbo it's just not competitive in anything.

Ok, so your you're out to prove a point. As far as I know there is no award for doing things the hard way, you will have to keep yourself motivated I guess. Beating a new car with 20+ years of technology advantage, 2/3 the displacement, naturally aspirated, with no pistons would be cool. But because you are limiting yourself on purpose, you alone are the only one that will be able to say if it is going to be cool/worth the long hard trip or not. Are you the one that brings a knife to a gun fight just so you can say you kicked someones ass that had a gun? At what point do you draw the line? How come you get to use slicks? Are you going to do a full standalone or do you have to use the stock ecu in your mind? Why don't you just ride your bike faster than the new car just to prove a point? blah blah blah. At what point does it get silly? You are only playing a battle in your head to prove to yourself (or maybe a few of your friends) that you can do it. We can't answer if it will be worth it or not in that situation.

Tweak you need to redyno your car and get it retuned those charts are so ugly!!

I run carbs. Carbs will allways make more peak hp than any EFI car can. It's physics, I'm not going to argue why in this thread, so if you want to know search. I argue about it twice a week. If I do go turbo again I might run standalone though just for the simplicity of it and the driveability that EFI offers over carbs.

They are ugly, but I still made my goal. :D I recently bought a new boost controller. AMS-500. Best thing ever, I love it. Don't waste your money on anything else.

whatever you end up doing Adrian I can test pilot the car once your finished :) make sure it's good

This thread is fucking hilarious. :)

Wait, what? You're gonna have to explain that one. I mean do a TT setup with a small and large turbo, sure
you're gonna have lag but we've all seen the shorter benefit of non-sequential turbo setups with a trailing and
a leading turbo to make up for each others shortcomings. If you pay attention though people always drop these
in favor of a large turbo instead. There's a reason, they aren't tracking there cars, for a turbo'd track setup I
think a non-sequential would be a bitching setup.

Seriously though, why would you need anything extra up top, if your tracking this car the only time you'll high rev
is down straights, quick through the corners mang, its what wins. I'd much MUCH rather make a ton of low-mid hp
and tq than try high reving all the time to get into my power band. Seriously you think Exiges make tons of power?
Course not, they're fast rev engines that I've never seen past 300bhp. What they have that makes them killer
track cars is suspension, breaks, and solid low-mid. Which is exactly what I've been saying through the last (3 now)
posts. Hell if you have money to burn, strip that S4 and put a supercharger on it for a nice (constant) stream of
compressed air.

If you're tracking your car you are seriously doing it in a way that I don't get. There are quite a few things you can
do suspension wise (even redistributing weight) that will benefit greatly and still keep you out of modified. You just
have to be a crafty little shit and sit down and think about ways to reorder things.

+1 for the truth.

Ever been in a supercharged rotary? yuck. they just seem off. I've nvere driven one, but I've been a couple now and i've yet to be impressed.

lol I give up on you. You have no logic, there is obviously something else going on here. You have no clear end goal. Good luck with your issues. :D

I guess its all a matter of opinion, weighing the pro's and con's.
Want forced induction? Don't want lag? Supercharger! Like anything
it's all in how you are going to set it up. I see kids all day long buying
random parts with no "end goal" or "general plan". No one seems to
be willing to weigh out decisions and splurge on crap that makes it
"look cool, sound cool, add bling" whatever. Its a waste of money on
useless crap imho. I mean honestly you don't need to be a effin NASA
engineer to add and subtract numbers. Or maybe you do? lol

As for the supercharged 7's you've ridden in (or whatever kind of car
they were), was there any consideration as to how it was set up, or
was it, i got this ***ckson supercharger for dirt cheap, I'm gonna throw
it on.

I'm still a firm believer in build a car from the ground up, with careful
consideration as to what parts I'll be using, and how they'll effect all
the other parts, or future parts.

AND!!!!

And Hyper, Tweak (yeah i saw ur post before u edit'd u sly bastard ^_^)
Of course a supercharger is just a "bigger" NA, its a dividing bridge between
Standard and Forced induction. It's the "Turbo for the guy who doesn't wanna
turbo his car". You get higher hp, quicker throttle response, and etc with a
and lemme bold this Limited amount of induction. You're trading pros
and cons on two forced induction platforms here.

Not to be a dick. but.....

Honestly, this ring of typical "purist beliefs" bullshit I always see smeared all
over this board. Rotary > Piston / Turbo > Charged / Forced Induction > Non

No platform is better then another, they're all just "different" ways of making
power. I have no idea why people don't see this, I guess people are just bias?

It depends on what your goals for the vehicle are.

You use the components neccessary to reach those goals. Whether it is an all out NA build-up, a supercharger, upgraded sequential twin turbos, a single turbo, a gaggle of geese, etc. will depend on which route will get you to where you want to be.

Heck, I was dead set on running BNR stage 3's, until I was shown empirical evidence that my goals could be met with a (very specific) ball bearing single turbo. So now, I am going that route. And yes, someone in this thread is going to want a cookie for that one.

-As far as $700 on a stock exhaust system... I am completely lost on that one.
-As far as the "superchargers are weird on a rotary" opinion... that is just a naive statement.
-As for carbs making more peak power: EFI cars (when tuned properly) will be able to have a better overall powerband with smoother running in a wider temperature/altitude range.


There are so many off the wall topics in this thread that I really don't even want to comment on each of them. So I will stop here, and go back to spectating and laughing. :)

That's the prob Monk, Hyper never really specified "What" the goals are, so now
its just a bunch of bickering back and forth about who's is biggest/fastest/insert
whatever here....

I'm still struggling to find out what's really going on. or why.

Noone has really read the thread. I posted some goals, I said charged rotaries were unimpressive not weird. I have built enough cars through out the years I know exactly what the fuck i'm doing and I have two clear options on where I can go from here. Just wanted some oppinons from people who know me or have seen the cars I have built. This pissing match has gotten rediculas. And mis quoting me is ubsurd. It's not a stock exhaust in any way.

Mods lock this thread down.