need tuning help
my car is up and running now, but i need some help withthe tuning. ive got it driveable, but when i "blip" the thrrottle, it leans out to a stall. im not sure how to fix this one, so any help will be appreciated. ill post up all my maps tomorrow since im not home right now. if need i can also put them into excel and graph them for a more visually appealing layout.
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Is your tps working?
So as soon as you touch the throttle does it go to 01% or more? What is your LOAD_00HG number and what are your pump settings. |
tps seems to work fine. it is calibrated correctly and like i said the car is driveable. the issue is this
1.) when idling, if i blip the throttle it leans out. but i can slowly push down the gas just fine. its just with i press the throttle quickly. 2.) same issue when driving. |
Mods :
S5 TII block Large Streetport Hybrid turbo ( comp housing/wheel about the size of gt28 or gt30) S5 hotside ported waste gate 3" turbo back Large FMIC 550cc/720cc injectors S6 fuel pump Idle Map Screen 1 30" ~ 1.62 25" ~ 1.38 20" ~ 1.52 15" ~ 2.00 10" ~ 2.71 05" ~ 3.33 00" ~ 4.00 2psi ~ 4.62 4-20psi ~ 4.95 Load Map Screen 3 30" ~ 1.81 25" ~ 1.62 20" ~ 1.90 15" ~ 2.67 10" ~ 3.52 05" ~ 4.33 00" ~ 5.24 2psi ~ 6.00 4psi ~ 6.81 6psi ~ 7.71 8psi ~ 8.43 10psi ~ 8.81 12psi ~ 9.24 14psi ~ 9.62 16psi ~ 10.14 18psi ~ 10.00 20psi ~ 10.00 RPMwot Map Screen 17 500 ~ 00 1000 ~ 00 1500 ~ 00 2000 ~ 04 2500 ~ 04 3000 ~ 00 all after 00 RPMcrs Screen 18 all 00 Pump Map Screen 19 Pump2Start ~ 2000 Pump1Amt ~ 15 Pump1Pulse ~ 05 Pump1Trig ~ 12 Pump1Stop ~ 00 Pump1Adv ~ 05 Pump2Time ~ 10 Pump2Amt ~ 30 Pump2Trig ~ 16 Pump2Stop ~ 00 Pump2Adv ~ 05 PumpDwell ~ 3.00 PumpTimers ~ No Pump1Sync ~ No PumpSpare ~ 00 PumpCold ~ 17 Water Map Screen 20 -25 ~ 73 -17 ~ 77 -9 ~ 75 -1 ~ 71 5 ~ 63 11 ~ 56 18 ~ 47 24 ~ 37 31 ~ 29 38 ~ 21 46 ~ 13 60 ~ 7 68 ~ 3 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Air_t Map Screen 21 -25 ~ 09 -17 ~ 06 -9 ~ 04 -1 ~ 02 5 ~ 0 11 ~ 00 18 ~ 0 24 ~ 0 31 ~ 0 38 ~ 0 46 ~ 0 60 ~ 0 68 ~ 0 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Crank Map Screen 22 t*rpm Screen 23 Idle ~ 05 1000 ~ 10 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 20 2500 ~ 25 3000 ~ 25 3500 ~ 25 4000 ~ 25 4500 ~ 25 5000 ~ 25 5500 ~ 25 6000 ~ 25 6500 ~ 25 7000 ~ 25 7500 ~ 25 8000 ~ 25 9000 ~ 25 t*map Map Screen 24 Idle ~ 00 25 ~ 05 20 ~ 04 15 ~ 03 10 ~ 02 05 ~ 00 00 ~ -1 2psi ~ -3 4psi ~ -5 6psi ~ -6 8psi ~ -7 10psi ~ -3 12psi ~ -8 14psi ~ -9 16psi ~ -10 18 psi ~ -10 20 psi ~ -10 t*air Screen 25 all 00 t*gap Screen 26 0500 ~ 15 1000 ~ 15 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 14 2500 ~ 12 3000~ 9 3500 ~ 7 4000 ~ 6 4500 ~ 5 5000 ~ 3 5500 ~ 2 6000 ~ 1 6500 ~ 00 7000 ~ 00 8000 ~ 00 t*Inj Map Screen 27 0500 ~ 120 1000 ~ 150 1500 ~ 150 2000 ~ 150 2500 ~ 150 3000 ~ 150 3500 ~ 180 4000 ~ 180 4500 ~ 210 5000 ~ 210 5500 ~ 210 6000 ~ 240 6500 ~ 240 7000 ~ 270 8000 ~ 270 9000 ~ 270 t*wat Map Screen 28 all 00 AUX map Map On ~ off Fan ~ 88 Fan Add ~ .19 FAn Air ~ .10 Air min ~ 10.00 Air Max ~ 10.52 Airwat ~ .48 Airafs ~ .10 RPM set ~ 880 pwm low~ .76 pwm HI ~ 7.62 INP RPM LIM ~ off Air add ~ .19 Enrich ~ 00 Timing ~ 00 Option Map Screen 30 Af_StE ~ 07 Dwell ~ 3.00 REVstg ~ 2750 MAPstg ~ 02 %stg ~ 50 hope this helps |
heres my map...are you sure you are running lean and not getting too rich.. im just guessing as i had to lower my numbers and im running 550's
idle 30" ~ 1.33 25" ~ 1.33 20" ~ 1.33 15" ~ 1.67 10" ~ 2.2 05" ~ 3.48 00" ~ 4.0 2-20psi ~ 4.95 load Load Map Screen 3 30" ~ 1.76 25" ~ 1.86 20" ~ 1.95 15" ~ 2.24 10" ~ 2.90 05" ~ 3.90 00" ~ 4.81 2psi ~ 5.62 4psi ~ 6.10 6psi ~ 7.14 8psi ~ 7.86 10psi ~ 8.48 12psi ~ 8.62 14psi ~ 8.71 16psi ~ 9.00 18psi ~ 9.48 20psi ~ 10.00 |
Idle Map
Screen 1 30" ~ 1.62 25" ~ 1.38 20" ~ 1.38 15" ~ 1.71 10" ~ 2.21 05" ~ 3.33 00" ~ 4.00 2psi ~ 4.62 4-20psi ~ 4.95 Load Map Screen 3 30" ~ 1.81 25" ~ 1.38 20" ~ 1.44 15" ~ 1.95 10" ~ 2.5 05" ~ 3.6 00" ~ 4 2psi ~ 3.7 4psi ~ 4.5 6psi ~ 5.1 8psi ~ 5.5 10psi ~ 6.1 14psi ~ 6.8 16psi ~ 7.2 18psi ~ 8 20psi ~ 8.5 RPMwot Map Screen 17 500 ~ 00 1000 ~ 00 1500 ~ 00 2000 ~ 04 2500 ~ 04 3000 ~ 00 all after 00 RPMcrs Screen 18 all 00 Pump Map Screen 19 Pump2Start ~ 2000 Pump1Amt ~ 15 Pump1Pulse ~ 05 Pump1Trig ~ 12 Pump1Stop ~ 00 Pump1Adv ~ 05 Pump2Time ~ 10 Pump2Amt ~ 30 Pump2Trig ~ 16 Pump2Stop ~ 00 Pump2Adv ~ 05 PumpDwell ~ 3.00 PumpTimers ~ No Pump1Sync ~ No PumpSpare ~ 00 PumpCold ~ 17 Water Map Screen 20 -25 ~ 73 -17 ~ 77 -9 ~ 75 -1 ~ 71 5 ~ 63 11 ~ 56 18 ~ 47 24 ~ 37 31 ~ 29 38 ~ 21 46 ~ 13 60 ~ 7 68 ~ 3 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Air_t Map Screen 21 -25 ~ 09 -17 ~ 06 -9 ~ 04 -1 ~ 02 5 ~ 0 11 ~ 00 18 ~ 0 24 ~ 0 31 ~ 0 38 ~ 0 46 ~ 0 60 ~ 0 68 ~ 0 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Crank Map Screen 22 t*rpm Screen 23 Idle ~ 05 1000 ~ 10 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 20 2500 ~ 25 3000 ~ 25 3500 ~ 25 4000 ~ 25 4500 ~ 25 5000 ~ 25 5500 ~ 25 6000 ~ 25 6500 ~ 25 7000 ~ 25 7500 ~ 25 8000 ~ 25 9000 ~ 25 t*map Map Screen 24 Idle ~ 00 25 ~ 05 20 ~ 04 15 ~ 03 10 ~ 02 05 ~ 00 00 ~ 0 2psi ~ -2 4psi ~ -4 6psi ~ -6 8psi ~ -6 10psi ~ -8 14psi ~ -12 16psi ~ -14 18 psi ~ -16 20 psi ~ -18 t*air Screen 25 all 00 t*gap Screen 26 0500 ~ 15 1000 ~ 15 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 14 2500 ~ 12 3000~ 10 3500 ~ 10 4000 ~ 10 4500 ~ 10 5000 ~ 10 5500 ~ 10 6000 ~ 10 6500 ~ 10 7000 ~ 10 8000 ~ 10 t*Inj Map Screen 27 0500 ~ 120 1000 ~ 150 1500 ~ 150 2000 ~ 150 2500 ~ 150 3000 ~ 150 3500 ~ 150 4000 ~ 150 4500 ~ 180 5000 ~ 210 5500 ~ 210 6000 ~ 240 6500 ~ 240 7000 ~ 270 8000 ~ 270 9000 ~ 270 t*wat Map Screen 28 all 00 AUX map Map On ~ off Fan ~ 88 Fan Add ~ .19 FAn Air ~ .10 Air min ~ 10.00 Air Max ~ 10.52 Airwat ~ .48 Airafs ~ .10 RPM set ~ 880 pwm low~ .76 pwm HI ~ 7.62 INP RPM LIM ~ off Air add ~ .19 Enrich ~ 00 Timing ~ 00 Option Map Screen 30 Af_StE ~ 07 Dwell ~ 3.00 REVstg ~ 2750 MAPstg ~ 02 %stg ~ 50 Put that in should run heaps better. Tell me how it goes. |
ill give it a try later this week.
also checked out the race only site. definately know where im going for fuel upgrade :) |
i entered in the new maps today. i didnt do any drive testing, just in my driveway.
i noticed that the idle seemed to be "searcing" and when i had any throttle load (say 30%) the idle would fluctuate with ~1000rpm difference between points. also the original issue is still there. when i "blip" the throttle, engine stalls. my afr gauge reads that it is leaning out. i noticed that if i richen up the load and the bottom end a LOT, it doesnt lean out any more. any suggestions? |
Ok i have modified the map. To try and address your issue.
Idle Map Screen 1 30" ~ 1.62 25" ~ 1.38 20" ~ 1.44 15" ~ 1.86 10" ~ 2.21 05" ~ 3.33 00" ~ 4.00 2psi ~ 4.62 4-20psi ~ 4.95 Load Map Screen 3 30" ~ 1.81 25" ~ 1.38 20" ~ 1.44 15" ~ 1.95 10" ~ 2.5 05" ~ 3.6 00" ~ 4 2psi ~ 3.7 4psi ~ 4.5 6psi ~ 5.1 8psi ~ 5.5 10psi ~ 6.1 14psi ~ 6.8 16psi ~ 7.2 18psi ~ 8 20psi ~ 8.5 RPMwot Map Screen 17 500 ~ 00 1000 ~ 00 1500 ~ 00 2000 ~ 04 2500 ~ 04 3000 ~ 00 all after 00 RPMcrs Screen 18 all 00 Pump Map Screen 19 Pump2Start ~ 2000 Pump1Amt ~ 30 Pump1Pulse ~ 08 Pump1Trig ~ 12 Pump1Stop ~ 00 Pump1Adv ~ 05 Pump2Time ~ 10 Pump2Amt ~ 30 Pump2Trig ~ 16 Pump2Stop ~ 00 Pump2Adv ~ 05 PumpDwell ~ 3.00 PumpTimers ~ No Pump1Sync ~ No PumpSpare ~ 00 PumpCold ~ 17 Water Map Screen 20 -25 ~ 73 -17 ~ 77 -9 ~ 75 -1 ~ 71 5 ~ 63 11 ~ 56 18 ~ 47 24 ~ 37 31 ~ 29 38 ~ 21 46 ~ 13 60 ~ 7 68 ~ 3 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Air_t Map Screen 21 -25 ~ 09 -17 ~ 06 -9 ~ 04 -1 ~ 02 5 ~ 0 11 ~ 00 18 ~ 0 24 ~ 0 31 ~ 0 38 ~ 0 46 ~ 0 60 ~ 0 68 ~ 0 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Crank Map Screen 22 t*rpm Screen 23 Idle ~ 05 1000 ~ 10 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 20 2500 ~ 25 3000 ~ 25 3500 ~ 25 4000 ~ 25 4500 ~ 25 5000 ~ 25 5500 ~ 25 6000 ~ 25 6500 ~ 25 7000 ~ 25 7500 ~ 25 8000 ~ 25 9000 ~ 25 t*map Map Screen 24 Idle ~ 00 25 ~ 05 20 ~ 04 15 ~ 03 10 ~ 02 05 ~ 00 00 ~ 0 2psi ~ -2 4psi ~ -4 6psi ~ -6 8psi ~ -6 10psi ~ -8 14psi ~ -12 16psi ~ -14 18 psi ~ -16 20 psi ~ -18 t*air Screen 25 all 00 t*gap Screen 26 0500 ~ 15 1000 ~ 15 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 14 2500 ~ 12 3000~ 10 3500 ~ 10 4000 ~ 10 4500 ~ 10 5000 ~ 10 5500 ~ 10 6000 ~ 10 6500 ~ 10 7000 ~ 10 8000 ~ 10 t*Inj Map Screen 27 0500 ~ 120 1000 ~ 150 1500 ~ 150 2000 ~ 150 2500 ~ 150 3000 ~ 150 3500 ~ 150 4000 ~ 150 4500 ~ 180 5000 ~ 210 5500 ~ 210 6000 ~ 240 6500 ~ 240 7000 ~ 270 8000 ~ 270 9000 ~ 270 t*wat Map Screen 28 all 00 AUX map Map On ~ off Fan ~ 88 Fan Add ~ .19 FAn Air ~ .10 Air min ~ 10.00 Air Max ~ 10.52 Airwat ~ .48 Airafs ~ .10 RPM set ~ 880 pwm low~ .76 pwm HI ~ 7.62 INP RPM LIM ~ off Air add ~ .19 Enrich ~ 00 Timing ~ 00 Option Map Screen 30 Af_StE ~ 07 Dwell ~ 3.00 REVstg ~ 2750 MAPstg ~ 02 %stg ~ 50 CAn you make sure your tps is calibrated correctly? go to opt_tpscal and change the number up and down till it shows 00 with * next to it. |
ill enter that in tonight when i get off work and see how it goes. i recalibrate the tps after i make any changes, but ill double check it this time. either way i appreciate all the help youve been giving me :)
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Lets hope it works good. If it improves then at least we know were going in the right direction.
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When the engine is leaning out while you're blipping the throttle this is a result of the Pump settings not being correct. If you have the car running well in all other areas but it's only leaning out under quick throttle movements there is no reason to load an entirely new calibration.
Read the manual pages 18-20 on setting up the throttle pump function and go from there. Taking blind stabs with a map from another car is not the way to properly setup a calibration. Where are you located? I have a trip planned to Chicago in a few weeks to tune another car. If you're interested in help send me a PM. |
That map he had in their is way off.
Its way too rich for his injectors. If he can get a map in their to get the car driving half descent he can then drive it to his preferred tuner then to get forced into the above. |
the load map i inputed from from you map was too lean. i did some driving and richened it up to where it needs to be. its able to be drivin now. ill keep going through the manual to see if i can work this out.
c. ludwig - i live in goshen. near elkhart/southbend/mishiwaka area. |
Is your motor low on comp?
that tune came straight out of a car with the same injectors that i recently tuned, although it had a rebuilt engine. Have you got an AFR meter? Get one and do it properly. |
no its just over 3500 miles on full rebuild and LARGE streetport.
i have got a wideband AFR meter installed in my car, although it isnt hooked up to my microtech (LTx-8 has only narrowband input) |
and C. Ludwig - which pump settings do you recommend changing, and how much?
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Pump Map
Screen 19 Pump2Start ~ 2000 Pump1Amt ~ 30 Pump1Pulse ~ 08 Pump1Trig ~ 05 Pump1Stop ~ 00 Pump1Adv ~ 05 Pump2Time ~ 10 Pump2Amt ~ 30 Pump2Trig ~ 16 Pump2Stop ~ 00 Pump2Adv ~ 05 PumpDwell ~ 3.00 PumpTimers ~ No Pump1Sync ~ No PumpSpare ~ 00 PumpCold ~ 17 Input those pump settings. How much vaccum does your car pull on idle Your car is a large street port so that explains why my map was lean. If your using an afr meter get your cruise afrs 05-20HG to 14:1 and at 00HG step it down to 12.5:1 and then should get it cruising really nice. Your car may be missing cause your car pulls low vaccum on idle and isnt triggering your pump. When you pump the accelerator of idle does it say on the second line of the handst Pump 1 |
ill input that. pulls 17hg at idle.
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anybody have any tips on tuning in tps mode.
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Its not much different to map mode. First you have to make sure your TPS is full scale and not a narrow scale tps. So basically at half throttle you only have 50% tps registering etc. Most tps wired on rotaries are narrow scale, only s5 and upwards has a full scale tps and most people dont wire it anyway.
Once you have a full scale tps working correctly, you go through your load points(which are now in tps numbers) and add or subtract injector opening times. Use an afr meter and that will get your tune looking good. Any reason to use tps instead of map? Your car pulls good vaccum, and isnt a bridgpeort, shouldnt need tps. |
its a short sweep... i didnt think about that... hahaha.
my reasoning is that my throttle issue was instantly fixed when in tps mode. makes me think that when the throttle % jumps up real fast, the injectors dont throw in enough fuel. but pump settings havent fixed that for me.. im going to keep trying in map mode though. |
If tps mode fixes your problem.
75% your problem is in your pump settings. And 25% in the rest of the map. 2 things can cause a miss on initial acceleration. Lean load map between 20-10HG or not enough fuel in your pump settings. Pump1 +30% Pump1pulse +05 pump1trig +10 pump1stop 00"Hg pump2start 2000RPM pump2amt +30% Pump2time +10 Pump2trig +16 pump2stop 00"Hg pump1&2adv +05deg pump1&2dwell 3.00 pump1&2timer no pump1&2sync no pump1&2spare 0 pump1&2cold 0 Put the above settings in. And richen up your load map alittle bit. So go through all your load points and put alittle abit more fuel(.16ms extra). See what that does. Hve you thought of getting your car retuned? as it dosnt sound like your too familiar with the afr meter etc. |
that is my exact pump map. and my load map is not to lean. ive expirimented with the load map to fix the idle rev, and can be done, but the car will be WAY too rich to drive. when the car is perfectly driveable, the throttle misses with a quick foot.
i also tried many things with the pump maps and that seemed to do no good. ill be taking my vcar to get tuned whenever banzai starts tuning again. |
When you tap the throttle. Can you see the second line on the handset go to pump 1 or pump 2? or none?
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