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need tuning help
my car is up and running now, but i need some help withthe tuning. ive got it driveable, but when i "blip" the thrrottle, it leans out to a stall. im not sure how to fix this one, so any help will be appreciated. ill post up all my maps tomorrow since im not home right now. if need i can also put them into excel and graph them for a more visually appealing layout.
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Is your tps working?
So as soon as you touch the throttle does it go to 01% or more? What is your LOAD_00HG number and what are your pump settings. |
tps seems to work fine. it is calibrated correctly and like i said the car is driveable. the issue is this
1.) when idling, if i blip the throttle it leans out. but i can slowly push down the gas just fine. its just with i press the throttle quickly. 2.) same issue when driving. |
Mods :
S5 TII block Large Streetport Hybrid turbo ( comp housing/wheel about the size of gt28 or gt30) S5 hotside ported waste gate 3" turbo back Large FMIC 550cc/720cc injectors S6 fuel pump Idle Map Screen 1 30" ~ 1.62 25" ~ 1.38 20" ~ 1.52 15" ~ 2.00 10" ~ 2.71 05" ~ 3.33 00" ~ 4.00 2psi ~ 4.62 4-20psi ~ 4.95 Load Map Screen 3 30" ~ 1.81 25" ~ 1.62 20" ~ 1.90 15" ~ 2.67 10" ~ 3.52 05" ~ 4.33 00" ~ 5.24 2psi ~ 6.00 4psi ~ 6.81 6psi ~ 7.71 8psi ~ 8.43 10psi ~ 8.81 12psi ~ 9.24 14psi ~ 9.62 16psi ~ 10.14 18psi ~ 10.00 20psi ~ 10.00 RPMwot Map Screen 17 500 ~ 00 1000 ~ 00 1500 ~ 00 2000 ~ 04 2500 ~ 04 3000 ~ 00 all after 00 RPMcrs Screen 18 all 00 Pump Map Screen 19 Pump2Start ~ 2000 Pump1Amt ~ 15 Pump1Pulse ~ 05 Pump1Trig ~ 12 Pump1Stop ~ 00 Pump1Adv ~ 05 Pump2Time ~ 10 Pump2Amt ~ 30 Pump2Trig ~ 16 Pump2Stop ~ 00 Pump2Adv ~ 05 PumpDwell ~ 3.00 PumpTimers ~ No Pump1Sync ~ No PumpSpare ~ 00 PumpCold ~ 17 Water Map Screen 20 -25 ~ 73 -17 ~ 77 -9 ~ 75 -1 ~ 71 5 ~ 63 11 ~ 56 18 ~ 47 24 ~ 37 31 ~ 29 38 ~ 21 46 ~ 13 60 ~ 7 68 ~ 3 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Air_t Map Screen 21 -25 ~ 09 -17 ~ 06 -9 ~ 04 -1 ~ 02 5 ~ 0 11 ~ 00 18 ~ 0 24 ~ 0 31 ~ 0 38 ~ 0 46 ~ 0 60 ~ 0 68 ~ 0 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Crank Map Screen 22 t*rpm Screen 23 Idle ~ 05 1000 ~ 10 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 20 2500 ~ 25 3000 ~ 25 3500 ~ 25 4000 ~ 25 4500 ~ 25 5000 ~ 25 5500 ~ 25 6000 ~ 25 6500 ~ 25 7000 ~ 25 7500 ~ 25 8000 ~ 25 9000 ~ 25 t*map Map Screen 24 Idle ~ 00 25 ~ 05 20 ~ 04 15 ~ 03 10 ~ 02 05 ~ 00 00 ~ -1 2psi ~ -3 4psi ~ -5 6psi ~ -6 8psi ~ -7 10psi ~ -3 12psi ~ -8 14psi ~ -9 16psi ~ -10 18 psi ~ -10 20 psi ~ -10 t*air Screen 25 all 00 t*gap Screen 26 0500 ~ 15 1000 ~ 15 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 14 2500 ~ 12 3000~ 9 3500 ~ 7 4000 ~ 6 4500 ~ 5 5000 ~ 3 5500 ~ 2 6000 ~ 1 6500 ~ 00 7000 ~ 00 8000 ~ 00 t*Inj Map Screen 27 0500 ~ 120 1000 ~ 150 1500 ~ 150 2000 ~ 150 2500 ~ 150 3000 ~ 150 3500 ~ 180 4000 ~ 180 4500 ~ 210 5000 ~ 210 5500 ~ 210 6000 ~ 240 6500 ~ 240 7000 ~ 270 8000 ~ 270 9000 ~ 270 t*wat Map Screen 28 all 00 AUX map Map On ~ off Fan ~ 88 Fan Add ~ .19 FAn Air ~ .10 Air min ~ 10.00 Air Max ~ 10.52 Airwat ~ .48 Airafs ~ .10 RPM set ~ 880 pwm low~ .76 pwm HI ~ 7.62 INP RPM LIM ~ off Air add ~ .19 Enrich ~ 00 Timing ~ 00 Option Map Screen 30 Af_StE ~ 07 Dwell ~ 3.00 REVstg ~ 2750 MAPstg ~ 02 %stg ~ 50 hope this helps |
heres my map...are you sure you are running lean and not getting too rich.. im just guessing as i had to lower my numbers and im running 550's
idle 30" ~ 1.33 25" ~ 1.33 20" ~ 1.33 15" ~ 1.67 10" ~ 2.2 05" ~ 3.48 00" ~ 4.0 2-20psi ~ 4.95 load Load Map Screen 3 30" ~ 1.76 25" ~ 1.86 20" ~ 1.95 15" ~ 2.24 10" ~ 2.90 05" ~ 3.90 00" ~ 4.81 2psi ~ 5.62 4psi ~ 6.10 6psi ~ 7.14 8psi ~ 7.86 10psi ~ 8.48 12psi ~ 8.62 14psi ~ 8.71 16psi ~ 9.00 18psi ~ 9.48 20psi ~ 10.00 |
Idle Map
Screen 1 30" ~ 1.62 25" ~ 1.38 20" ~ 1.38 15" ~ 1.71 10" ~ 2.21 05" ~ 3.33 00" ~ 4.00 2psi ~ 4.62 4-20psi ~ 4.95 Load Map Screen 3 30" ~ 1.81 25" ~ 1.38 20" ~ 1.44 15" ~ 1.95 10" ~ 2.5 05" ~ 3.6 00" ~ 4 2psi ~ 3.7 4psi ~ 4.5 6psi ~ 5.1 8psi ~ 5.5 10psi ~ 6.1 14psi ~ 6.8 16psi ~ 7.2 18psi ~ 8 20psi ~ 8.5 RPMwot Map Screen 17 500 ~ 00 1000 ~ 00 1500 ~ 00 2000 ~ 04 2500 ~ 04 3000 ~ 00 all after 00 RPMcrs Screen 18 all 00 Pump Map Screen 19 Pump2Start ~ 2000 Pump1Amt ~ 15 Pump1Pulse ~ 05 Pump1Trig ~ 12 Pump1Stop ~ 00 Pump1Adv ~ 05 Pump2Time ~ 10 Pump2Amt ~ 30 Pump2Trig ~ 16 Pump2Stop ~ 00 Pump2Adv ~ 05 PumpDwell ~ 3.00 PumpTimers ~ No Pump1Sync ~ No PumpSpare ~ 00 PumpCold ~ 17 Water Map Screen 20 -25 ~ 73 -17 ~ 77 -9 ~ 75 -1 ~ 71 5 ~ 63 11 ~ 56 18 ~ 47 24 ~ 37 31 ~ 29 38 ~ 21 46 ~ 13 60 ~ 7 68 ~ 3 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Air_t Map Screen 21 -25 ~ 09 -17 ~ 06 -9 ~ 04 -1 ~ 02 5 ~ 0 11 ~ 00 18 ~ 0 24 ~ 0 31 ~ 0 38 ~ 0 46 ~ 0 60 ~ 0 68 ~ 0 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Crank Map Screen 22 t*rpm Screen 23 Idle ~ 05 1000 ~ 10 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 20 2500 ~ 25 3000 ~ 25 3500 ~ 25 4000 ~ 25 4500 ~ 25 5000 ~ 25 5500 ~ 25 6000 ~ 25 6500 ~ 25 7000 ~ 25 7500 ~ 25 8000 ~ 25 9000 ~ 25 t*map Map Screen 24 Idle ~ 00 25 ~ 05 20 ~ 04 15 ~ 03 10 ~ 02 05 ~ 00 00 ~ 0 2psi ~ -2 4psi ~ -4 6psi ~ -6 8psi ~ -6 10psi ~ -8 14psi ~ -12 16psi ~ -14 18 psi ~ -16 20 psi ~ -18 t*air Screen 25 all 00 t*gap Screen 26 0500 ~ 15 1000 ~ 15 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 14 2500 ~ 12 3000~ 10 3500 ~ 10 4000 ~ 10 4500 ~ 10 5000 ~ 10 5500 ~ 10 6000 ~ 10 6500 ~ 10 7000 ~ 10 8000 ~ 10 t*Inj Map Screen 27 0500 ~ 120 1000 ~ 150 1500 ~ 150 2000 ~ 150 2500 ~ 150 3000 ~ 150 3500 ~ 150 4000 ~ 150 4500 ~ 180 5000 ~ 210 5500 ~ 210 6000 ~ 240 6500 ~ 240 7000 ~ 270 8000 ~ 270 9000 ~ 270 t*wat Map Screen 28 all 00 AUX map Map On ~ off Fan ~ 88 Fan Add ~ .19 FAn Air ~ .10 Air min ~ 10.00 Air Max ~ 10.52 Airwat ~ .48 Airafs ~ .10 RPM set ~ 880 pwm low~ .76 pwm HI ~ 7.62 INP RPM LIM ~ off Air add ~ .19 Enrich ~ 00 Timing ~ 00 Option Map Screen 30 Af_StE ~ 07 Dwell ~ 3.00 REVstg ~ 2750 MAPstg ~ 02 %stg ~ 50 Put that in should run heaps better. Tell me how it goes. |
ill give it a try later this week.
also checked out the race only site. definately know where im going for fuel upgrade :) |
i entered in the new maps today. i didnt do any drive testing, just in my driveway.
i noticed that the idle seemed to be "searcing" and when i had any throttle load (say 30%) the idle would fluctuate with ~1000rpm difference between points. also the original issue is still there. when i "blip" the throttle, engine stalls. my afr gauge reads that it is leaning out. i noticed that if i richen up the load and the bottom end a LOT, it doesnt lean out any more. any suggestions? |
Ok i have modified the map. To try and address your issue.
Idle Map Screen 1 30" ~ 1.62 25" ~ 1.38 20" ~ 1.44 15" ~ 1.86 10" ~ 2.21 05" ~ 3.33 00" ~ 4.00 2psi ~ 4.62 4-20psi ~ 4.95 Load Map Screen 3 30" ~ 1.81 25" ~ 1.38 20" ~ 1.44 15" ~ 1.95 10" ~ 2.5 05" ~ 3.6 00" ~ 4 2psi ~ 3.7 4psi ~ 4.5 6psi ~ 5.1 8psi ~ 5.5 10psi ~ 6.1 14psi ~ 6.8 16psi ~ 7.2 18psi ~ 8 20psi ~ 8.5 RPMwot Map Screen 17 500 ~ 00 1000 ~ 00 1500 ~ 00 2000 ~ 04 2500 ~ 04 3000 ~ 00 all after 00 RPMcrs Screen 18 all 00 Pump Map Screen 19 Pump2Start ~ 2000 Pump1Amt ~ 30 Pump1Pulse ~ 08 Pump1Trig ~ 12 Pump1Stop ~ 00 Pump1Adv ~ 05 Pump2Time ~ 10 Pump2Amt ~ 30 Pump2Trig ~ 16 Pump2Stop ~ 00 Pump2Adv ~ 05 PumpDwell ~ 3.00 PumpTimers ~ No Pump1Sync ~ No PumpSpare ~ 00 PumpCold ~ 17 Water Map Screen 20 -25 ~ 73 -17 ~ 77 -9 ~ 75 -1 ~ 71 5 ~ 63 11 ~ 56 18 ~ 47 24 ~ 37 31 ~ 29 38 ~ 21 46 ~ 13 60 ~ 7 68 ~ 3 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Air_t Map Screen 21 -25 ~ 09 -17 ~ 06 -9 ~ 04 -1 ~ 02 5 ~ 0 11 ~ 00 18 ~ 0 24 ~ 0 31 ~ 0 38 ~ 0 46 ~ 0 60 ~ 0 68 ~ 0 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Crank Map Screen 22 t*rpm Screen 23 Idle ~ 05 1000 ~ 10 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 20 2500 ~ 25 3000 ~ 25 3500 ~ 25 4000 ~ 25 4500 ~ 25 5000 ~ 25 5500 ~ 25 6000 ~ 25 6500 ~ 25 7000 ~ 25 7500 ~ 25 8000 ~ 25 9000 ~ 25 t*map Map Screen 24 Idle ~ 00 25 ~ 05 20 ~ 04 15 ~ 03 10 ~ 02 05 ~ 00 00 ~ 0 2psi ~ -2 4psi ~ -4 6psi ~ -6 8psi ~ -6 10psi ~ -8 14psi ~ -12 16psi ~ -14 18 psi ~ -16 20 psi ~ -18 t*air Screen 25 all 00 t*gap Screen 26 0500 ~ 15 1000 ~ 15 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 14 2500 ~ 12 3000~ 10 3500 ~ 10 4000 ~ 10 4500 ~ 10 5000 ~ 10 5500 ~ 10 6000 ~ 10 6500 ~ 10 7000 ~ 10 8000 ~ 10 t*Inj Map Screen 27 0500 ~ 120 1000 ~ 150 1500 ~ 150 2000 ~ 150 2500 ~ 150 3000 ~ 150 3500 ~ 150 4000 ~ 150 4500 ~ 180 5000 ~ 210 5500 ~ 210 6000 ~ 240 6500 ~ 240 7000 ~ 270 8000 ~ 270 9000 ~ 270 t*wat Map Screen 28 all 00 AUX map Map On ~ off Fan ~ 88 Fan Add ~ .19 FAn Air ~ .10 Air min ~ 10.00 Air Max ~ 10.52 Airwat ~ .48 Airafs ~ .10 RPM set ~ 880 pwm low~ .76 pwm HI ~ 7.62 INP RPM LIM ~ off Air add ~ .19 Enrich ~ 00 Timing ~ 00 Option Map Screen 30 Af_StE ~ 07 Dwell ~ 3.00 REVstg ~ 2750 MAPstg ~ 02 %stg ~ 50 CAn you make sure your tps is calibrated correctly? go to opt_tpscal and change the number up and down till it shows 00 with * next to it. |
ill enter that in tonight when i get off work and see how it goes. i recalibrate the tps after i make any changes, but ill double check it this time. either way i appreciate all the help youve been giving me :)
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Lets hope it works good. If it improves then at least we know were going in the right direction.
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When the engine is leaning out while you're blipping the throttle this is a result of the Pump settings not being correct. If you have the car running well in all other areas but it's only leaning out under quick throttle movements there is no reason to load an entirely new calibration.
Read the manual pages 18-20 on setting up the throttle pump function and go from there. Taking blind stabs with a map from another car is not the way to properly setup a calibration. Where are you located? I have a trip planned to Chicago in a few weeks to tune another car. If you're interested in help send me a PM. |
That map he had in their is way off.
Its way too rich for his injectors. If he can get a map in their to get the car driving half descent he can then drive it to his preferred tuner then to get forced into the above. |
the load map i inputed from from you map was too lean. i did some driving and richened it up to where it needs to be. its able to be drivin now. ill keep going through the manual to see if i can work this out.
c. ludwig - i live in goshen. near elkhart/southbend/mishiwaka area. |
Is your motor low on comp?
that tune came straight out of a car with the same injectors that i recently tuned, although it had a rebuilt engine. Have you got an AFR meter? Get one and do it properly. |
no its just over 3500 miles on full rebuild and LARGE streetport.
i have got a wideband AFR meter installed in my car, although it isnt hooked up to my microtech (LTx-8 has only narrowband input) |
and C. Ludwig - which pump settings do you recommend changing, and how much?
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Pump Map
Screen 19 Pump2Start ~ 2000 Pump1Amt ~ 30 Pump1Pulse ~ 08 Pump1Trig ~ 05 Pump1Stop ~ 00 Pump1Adv ~ 05 Pump2Time ~ 10 Pump2Amt ~ 30 Pump2Trig ~ 16 Pump2Stop ~ 00 Pump2Adv ~ 05 PumpDwell ~ 3.00 PumpTimers ~ No Pump1Sync ~ No PumpSpare ~ 00 PumpCold ~ 17 Input those pump settings. How much vaccum does your car pull on idle Your car is a large street port so that explains why my map was lean. If your using an afr meter get your cruise afrs 05-20HG to 14:1 and at 00HG step it down to 12.5:1 and then should get it cruising really nice. Your car may be missing cause your car pulls low vaccum on idle and isnt triggering your pump. When you pump the accelerator of idle does it say on the second line of the handst Pump 1 |
ill input that. pulls 17hg at idle.
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anybody have any tips on tuning in tps mode.
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Its not much different to map mode. First you have to make sure your TPS is full scale and not a narrow scale tps. So basically at half throttle you only have 50% tps registering etc. Most tps wired on rotaries are narrow scale, only s5 and upwards has a full scale tps and most people dont wire it anyway.
Once you have a full scale tps working correctly, you go through your load points(which are now in tps numbers) and add or subtract injector opening times. Use an afr meter and that will get your tune looking good. Any reason to use tps instead of map? Your car pulls good vaccum, and isnt a bridgpeort, shouldnt need tps. |
its a short sweep... i didnt think about that... hahaha.
my reasoning is that my throttle issue was instantly fixed when in tps mode. makes me think that when the throttle % jumps up real fast, the injectors dont throw in enough fuel. but pump settings havent fixed that for me.. im going to keep trying in map mode though. |
If tps mode fixes your problem.
75% your problem is in your pump settings. And 25% in the rest of the map. 2 things can cause a miss on initial acceleration. Lean load map between 20-10HG or not enough fuel in your pump settings. Pump1 +30% Pump1pulse +05 pump1trig +10 pump1stop 00"Hg pump2start 2000RPM pump2amt +30% Pump2time +10 Pump2trig +16 pump2stop 00"Hg pump1&2adv +05deg pump1&2dwell 3.00 pump1&2timer no pump1&2sync no pump1&2spare 0 pump1&2cold 0 Put the above settings in. And richen up your load map alittle bit. So go through all your load points and put alittle abit more fuel(.16ms extra). See what that does. Hve you thought of getting your car retuned? as it dosnt sound like your too familiar with the afr meter etc. |
that is my exact pump map. and my load map is not to lean. ive expirimented with the load map to fix the idle rev, and can be done, but the car will be WAY too rich to drive. when the car is perfectly driveable, the throttle misses with a quick foot.
i also tried many things with the pump maps and that seemed to do no good. ill be taking my vcar to get tuned whenever banzai starts tuning again. |
When you tap the throttle. Can you see the second line on the handset go to pump 1 or pump 2? or none?
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Try changing the value of %stage to 75 and see if it makes a difference.
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i dont believe any pump setting comes up when i tap the throttle, but im getting some help some physical help some time soon here so ill let it sit for a while..
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im figured out a few little tricks to tuning my car and got it back on the road for a bit. driving it is great now, with my cruise afrs at ~14, my load load at ~12.9. and what i have tuned for boost is at ~11.9. with a few hiccups that still need to be tweaked. my issue still remains though... if i push the pedal to quickly, when i even rev my engine at idle, it will lean out to where it stalls until i depress the pedal.
im going to save this map and load another to retune everything in TPS mode, instead of MAP mode. ill let you guys know how that goes as soon as i find any results... might be a while though, gotta wait for it to be past 40degrees. |
The problem has to be in your pump settings. 100%
Pump1 +45% Pump1pulse +10 pump1trig +5 pump1stop 00"Hg pump2start 2000RPM pump2amt +30% Pump2time +10 Pump2trig +16 pump2stop 00"Hg pump1&2adv +05deg pump1&2dwell 3.00 pump1&2timer no pump1&2sync no pump1&2spare 0 pump1&2cold 0 See if this pump settings help. |
I've been having similar issues with my car..similar but not the same. My car doens't stall out..but it will run lean if i blip the throttle then stumble a bit and go to proper afr after than. it register as low as 22 at times. This is more evident when i am cruising..lets say 2300-3100 rpm. So i am cruising at that rpm in like 3rd or 4th gear..then i get on the gas to make a low down pull it justs leans out and stumbles for a bit then picks up...i been playing with the pump settings..no change...tried playing the rpmwot a little..no change. Not sure what direction to turn now.
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Sounds like your lighter load maps are lean or possiblly your 00hg map maybe lean.
Check your cruise maps with the afr meter and see where they are at. Alittle lean and it will do it. |
i have tried almost everything with the pump settings. they dont help at all.
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still havent gotten this trhottle issue figured out. im completely stumped....
but to re-cap. at idle (or any load, any speed) if i quickly bury the throttle, the car leans out to were it sounds like it isnt even firing. sometimes it will stall, others it will sweep back to the correct afr. i also noticed that when i do this at idle, while i stomp the gas the vacuum continues to decrease (say from 17 to 0). i can slowly raise the rpm, and can even drive the car with a light foot. in tps mode, though, the throttle issue COMPLETELY disappears. anybody have any ideas? im going to do some more testing tomoro, so the faster the help the better. |
if your issue disappears in TPS mode. Then your problem is in your pump settings. I have come accross this issue before.
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theres no way unless its a timing issue in the pump settings. thats the only thing that i havent messed with with.
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today i tried about everything i could think of, again. pump values make NO difference. the only thing that does help is raising the values from 30-05hg halfway up the screen. but the the car is too rich to drive.
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I had a car. THAT HAD THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM as yours.
Two things fixed the problem. Their was a pod that sits on the inlet manifold on the firewall side. It was causing a huge air leak and no amount of fuel i put in the pump settings would eliminate the lean out on an initial press on the accelerator. I can take a photo later today to show it. BUt it is a circle pod and their is a screw under it. It came loose. I tightened up the screw and it came good. Next. After we did that. it was much better. But still bad. Pumptrig settings were bad. Someone had set it to 20. SO it needed a change in vaccum of 20 units for it to activate the pump. Brought it down to 6-7 and it stopped leaning out. Also next thing. Have you checked to see when you press the accelerator ever so slightly if it changes to 01% straight away or does it stay on 00? Basically trying to work out the sensitivity of the TPS. Can you do a datalog of the lean out? |
i can datalog everything but the afr. my lt8 doesnt except wideband info, even if i lower the bandwidth of the outgoing info. (the aem uego has some different setting that you can control its output message with).
a pic would be perfect. i just went out and looked, but i have no idea what you talking about about. |
well today i got it fix, finally. :icon_tup: the problem was due to where the microtech was getting its vaccuum souce from. i had this problem before with my blow off valve. the nipple that it WAS using was the one on the back side (toward pass. fender) of the upper intake manifold. i switched it to obe of the nipples on the front that are right after the throttle body. did a little tuning and bye bye throttle problem.
i feels good to have my car haul ass again :) :) :) |
Well their you go. AWESOME.
So lesson from this learnt is always use the correct vaccum nipples. Alternator side, 3rd nipple down!.:) |
lesson be learned for everyone else too. hahaha
how bout this as a problem... my pirellis dont squeel when i loose traction... hahahaha. i think i need wider tires..... |
hahah. YOU NEED MORE POWER. LOL
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Originally Posted by rx72c
(Post 7986285)
Well their you go. AWESOME.
So lesson from this learnt is always use the correct vaccum nipples. Alternator side, 3rd nipple down!.:) is it on the same spot? thanx tony |
Originally Posted by tony94s4
(Post 8309349)
How about fd,
is it on the same spot? thanx tony |
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