economy tuning
 

i need to tune for some economy, but dont really know the best way to go about it


heres all my maps

Idle Map
Screen 1

30" ~ 1.86
25" ~ 1.48
20" ~ 1.52
15" ~ 1.95
10" ~ 1.86
05" ~ 3.86
00" ~ 4.48
2psi ~ 4.81
4-20psi ~ 4.95

Load Map
Screen 3

30" ~ 0.81
25" ~ 1.1
20" ~ 1.48
15" ~ 2.05
10" ~ 2.86
05" ~ 3.81
00" ~ 4.48
2psi ~ ~ 4.95
4psi ~ 5.62
6psi ~ 6.38
8psi ~ 7.43
10psi ~ 8.76
14psi ~ 10
16psi ~ 11
18psi ~ 10.05
20psi ~ 9.33

RPMwot Map
Screen 17

500 ~ 0
1000 ~ 0
1500 ~ 0
2000 ~ 3
2500 ~ 3
3000 ~ 0
all after ~ 0

RPMcrs
Screen 18
all ~ 0

Pump Map
Screen 19

Pump2Start ~ 2000
Pump1Amt ~ 10
Pump1Pulse ~ 8
Pump1Trig ~ 8
Pump1Stop ~ 0
Pump1Adv ~ 5

Pump2Time ~ 15
Pump2Amt ~ 35
Pump2Trig ~ 9
Pump2Stop ~ 0
Pump2Adv ~ 5

PumpDwell ~ 3
PumpTimers ~ no
Pump1Sync ~ no
PumpSpare ~ 4
PumpCold ~ 10%

Water Map
Screen 20

-25 ~ 81
-17 ~ 81
-9 ~ 76
-1 ~ 70
5 ~ 60
11 ~ 49
18 ~ 10
24 ~ 33
31 ~ 27
38 ~ 21
46 ~ 15
60 ~ 8
68 ~ 3
82 ~ 0
99 ~ 0
124 ~ 0

Air_t Map
Screen 21

-25 ~ 21
-17 ~ 16
-9 ~ 10
-1 ~ 6
5 ~ 3
11 ~ 0
18 ~ 0
24 ~ 0
31 ~ 0
38 ~ 0
46 ~ 0
60 ~ 0
68 ~ 0
82 ~ 0
99 ~ 0
124 ~ 0

Crank Map
Screen 22


t*rpm
Screen 23

Idle
1000 ~ 5
1500 ~ 10
2000 ~ 15
2500 ~ 20
3000 ~ 25
3500 ~ 25
4000 ~ 25
4500 ~ 25
5000 ~ 25
5500 ~ 25
6000 ~ 25
6500 ~ 25
7000 ~ 25
7500 ~ 25
8000 ~ 25
9000 ~ 25

t*map Map
Screen 24

30 ~ 0
25 ~ 5
20 ~ 4
15 ~ 3
10 ~ 3
5 ~ 0
0 ~ 0
2psi ~ -2
4psi ~ -4
6psi ~ -6
8psi ~ -9
10psi ~ -9
14psi ~ -12
16psi ~ -14
18 psi ~ -16
20 psi ~ -18

t*air
Screen 25
all ~ 0

t*gap
Screen 26

500 ~ 15
1000 ~ 15
1500 ~ 15
2000 ~ 14
2500 ~ 12
3000 ~ 10
3500 ~ 10
4000 ~ 10
4500 ~ 10
5000 ~ 10
5500 ~ 10
6000 ~ 10
6500 ~ 10
7000 ~ 10
8000 ~ 10

t*Inj Map
Screen 27

500 ~ 120
1000 ~ 150
1500 ~ 150
2000 ~ 150
2500 ~ 150
3000 ~ 150
3500 ~ 150
4000 ~ 150
4500 ~ 180
5000 ~ 210
5500 ~ 210
6000 ~ 240
6500 ~ 240
7000 ~ 270
8000 ~ 270
9000 ~ 270

t*wat Map
Screen 28
all ~ 0


AUX map ~ off
Map On ~ off
Fan ~ 88
Fan Add ~ 0.19
FAn Air ~ 0.1
Air min ~ 10
Air Max ~ 10.52
Airwat ~ 0.48
Airafs ~ 0.1
RPM set ~ 950
pwm low~ ~ 0.76
pwm HI ~ 7.62
INP RPM LIM ~ off
Air add ~ 0.19
Enrich ~ 0
Timing ~ 0

Option Map
Screen 30

Af_StE ~ 7
Dwell ~ 3
REVstg ~ 2750
MAPstg ~ 2
%stg ~ 50
mixtrm ~ 0
tpscal ~ 47
timtrm ~ 0
optstatic ~ 0
opt. timax ~ 27
rpm wot ~ 5
rpm crs ~ 7


Config ~ 04 cyl/R
firing ~ sequntail
load ~ map sensor
dwell ~ timebase
input trig ~ (+POS)
spark trig ~ Ser4
tim check ~ off


i do have a questoin about my max timing. its at 27*, is that too low?

i still have a little work to do with my load map, but im mostly concerned with the timing aspect of the tune.

a few threads down from this one (right now atleast) i mentioned a boost issue at 10psi. right at that point the car begins to stumble, and the afrs start jumping between 10 and 13. maybe theres something im over-looking in my maps.

Change your opt_timmax to 40 degrees.


30 ~ 0
25 ~ 5
20 ~ 7
15 ~ 10
10 ~ 8
5 ~ 6
0 ~ 0
2psi ~ -2
4psi ~ -4
6psi ~ -6
8psi ~ -9
10psi ~ -9
14psi ~ -12
16psi ~ -14
18 psi ~ -16
20 psi ~ -18


Also with the car breaking up.

But an extra earth strap from the chassis to the block. See if it helps your problem.

ill give that a try. and what do you mean by an extra earth strap?

a big 0 guage cable from the chassis to the block.

A bad earth will cause break up.
Also your fuel pump could be bad and your fuel pressure could be dropping.
Ive seen both of the above cause break up.

Considering you have an FD pump id be getting rid of that. And putting a bosch 040 intank at the BARE MINIMUM.

any recommended spots off the block to put the ground?

Starter motor bolt(long one). Stay away from painted areas.

and what exactly was the change in the t*map. advancing the timing for fuel effinciancy, correct?

This is correct. Running more advance in the cruise area which let you run leaner afrs and closer to the 14.7 mark. Also will make the engine product more torque.

ok. at what point is too advanced? im slowly learning more and more about tuning this ecu, and i think im getting it down pretty well. its just the timing i havent spent a lot of time with.

i checked the ground from my starter and it was actually a 10g or so wire.... removed that and replaced with a MUCH thicker wire. problem solved :)

No more break up? Hmmm...

hahah BINGO!.

Good stuff.

Well if it starts pinging on cruise its too much timing. Thats very rare though.

REally it should be on the dyno and you will play with timing till the engine produces peak torque but on the street its always a slight compromise, not to say you cant get it pretty good.
From the timing map i gave you, you can run a few more degrees and youll be very close.

ok. ill do a bit more with the cruise.. i did realize i need larger injectors now though. 550's and 720's arent enough beyond 12 psi :( ... any HP estimators out there??? haha

550/720 if tuned at optimum level would be around 300-340rwhp.

so a lt10 can be tuned for economy??? i thought this was not possible lol

^^ anything can be tuned for "economy", just depends what your definition of the word is. hahaha

ive been able to get microtechs on 13bs to get 450kms to a tank around town driving and over 550 on high way.

whats that in mpg...too lazy to do the math

24mpg city driving, 29mpg highway driving.

wow.. im only getting around 15mpg right now... guess i have a lot more work to do....

Dude thats impossible :icon_no2: ...you gotta be pulling my leg.:scratch: What kinda AFRs you running? Constantly at 14.7

Impossible?
hahahaha.

GUYS. Learn how to use matrix mode. Spend alot of time on the tune. And if you can get your hands on a dyno and use it for 2-3 hours. You will get the figures im getting.
The key is to keeping mixtures very lean/clean on very light load, and low boost areas.

I am using the matrix mode...its pain to work with..with juggling thru the maps..but i feel much safer with it.

You have to juggle. But once you sort the whole thing out it will get better

What AFRs are you runnning between 05HG and 00HG and what injectors are you running?
Having small primaries and large secondaries kills fuel economy.

4 of the same injectors and if they are high impedence, will net you very good fuel economy.

rx72c which tank are you using i have an se and "15" gal at 450km is like 18mpg and 550km is 22mpg not quite what you are saying even if you say "13" gal you only get 21 and 26 mpg this is alittle low for what you are saying not flaming but just a little math.
eric

edit just a little question how does a high impedence and the same injectors make a good fuel econ. in your mind low pri. and large sec. would give you good econ. and good power.
thanks

im talking 45 litre tanks.

If that fuel economy in your opinion isnt good then im sorry i couldnt meet your standards. But in my opinion they are much better then mazda figures.

With a microtech. Staging small and big injectors smoothly will always get your a rich spot.
Especially 550/1700cc injectors.

High impedence injectors generally have a very good spray pattern, generally means you can run leaner then with a low impedence injector.
Having the same size injectors means you wont have a rich whole in your map.
This only applies to microtechs.

well im upgrading my fuel system soon here to 720's and 1680's.. ill work more ino matrix once i gete everything installed. no sense in spending 3-4 hours tuning when your just gonna need to change it all.

Thats it.!
Let us know when you order your injectors!
Maybe i can help you out.

16 -17psi on c16 and afrs around 11.5 stock port...what kinda power should i be expecting? and how much for 12 psi same 11.5 afr on 90 oct?

rx72c,

I have an fd with lt10, excesive lower manifold wich has 4 bungs for 4 injectors,
I was going to run 4 x 1000cc and plug the stock primary injector bungs but I was talked out of it for better idling & drivebility with the stock primaries,

also have gt4094r turbo with stock primary injectors and 2x 1600cc secondary's, twin in tank fuel pump's, fp on idle is around 42lb, and street ported,

what would u recomend 4 my setup run 4 injectors in one rail, run 2 & 2 or 4 & 2,

if I can get anywhere near ur economy I'll change everything on a hart beat

also will 4 x 1000cc saturaded be enough fuel for 500whp on streat gas

thanx 4 ur help
tony

Blurr i dont know your setup.

Well keeping the stock primaries in their location is good for your fuel economy start up and drivability so id keep them their.

1000cc injectors are all low impedance and have a fairly crappy spray pattern so they wont help really that much.

Ideally youd have 4X1000 cc secondaries and 2X 550cc primaries but the trick would be to have 3 stages.

So it would be 2X550cc then 2X1000cc then when you need it again another 2X1000cc.

But that would require you to send your comp back to microtech. really not worth the hassle.

Id get your car on a dyno, clean your cruise area up, add some timing, work hard to clean out your staging area and it should get you descent fuel economy.

Greddy T-78
550 pri and 1680 sec injectors
stock ports
custom v-mount with greddy IC and fluidyne Rad
supra pump
MT LT8
Thats the important stuff i guess

I am not familiar with the turbo.
Have any specs on it?

so im going 13b-re what would you recommend as far as choosing injectors with a lt10s

Power figure? or Target?

tony, what boost levels are you planing to run? or power figures? that will determine how much fuel you MUST have, and then you can figure out the setup you want. 4 x 1000cc should be enough, but like stated above, the low imp aspect might not work so well. how about some bigger primaries ( 720, 850, maybe 1000 if you want) and use the 1600s in the secondary.

o and i got my fuel upgrade completed. i broke an earl 6an fitting too. i didnt know that was even possible..... :wallbash:
my laptop also broke so i cant tune it till i get ahold of another one. it was just a bad day for me..

http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?...fr11lgoddgnzca
check that out and tell me what you think... hahaha

thought i was kinda funny being at the bottom of a thread discussing fuel economy..

this is the turbo I am running

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=BCS

I can go with bigger primary just afraid of loosing drivability & economy

I am running 18 pounds of boost
but still havent gunned it all the way

just finished braking the engine in

I am new to rotary world whats the leanest
I can run on idle with full street port?
I cant gett it to idle good over 12.5ar

my 1st 3 tanks of gass I did 180 miles on 18 galons
me and my friend base tuned it rich needs lots of clean up

will get me a laptop adapter for microtech and learn
new to microtech also

another idea can I run 2 more primaries saturated
on my secondary rail to run at the same time with the factory
primaryes lets say another 370cc and trim them down low

can they be wired to run same time?
thanx
tony

18lbs of boost tony? is this on pump? what kinda gas you using? if its 93 that maybe a bit high for saftey. try to keep it at 15 and below 18 is asking for touble.

As for you idle, what rpm are you idling at? you can try and advance your timing at idle, to like 15deg or so. i can get mine to idle at about 13.7 afr fairly smoothly. Rx72c will tell you idle about 11.4 or so to allow for traffic and fuel boil. Rx72c i hear alot of factory cars idle at 14.+ afr. why do we need to go so rich?

Its just the microtechs that seems to need to run so rich.


with the microtech, cant adjust the idle in fine increments to get a stable lean mixture. AND the microtech dosnt account for fuel boil and lights etc correctly.
So have to compromise unfortunately.
18pounds of boost is alot of for 93 octane. only run that on 98.

11.7ar wow that will make my economy even worst :(

idling its been tricky cant gett it where I whant it if I turn the
adjuster screw althe way it idles 1000-1100 when hot but drops
and barely runs when cold

if I adjustit cold 1000rpm when hot it gets up to 1500rpm


I have been running 18psi boost on my other turbo cars regularly
with no knocks even in texas hot weather I think us 93 is same as 98
over seas

thanx guys
tony

Rotary engines are different from piston engines. I used to run 17 psi on 90 octance on my early evos...would event think about it now. Right now 12-13psi on my FD feels far faster than 18psi on the evo. You dont need to go as high boost levels to make the same power as say a 2litre boosted car. Try and keep it at 15psi and below on the 93 octane. Ppl have down more than that and survived to tell the tale, but alot have not been so lucky.

have you tried adjust you for water maps to compensate for for the cold start to warm up? and also make sure everytime you turn that idle screw you readjust your tps calibration or it gonna be have funny still.

If you have it idling at 1000rpm when warm. it will idle 650-700rpm when cold.

it should idle their no problems. you just need to adjust your cold start map.

11.7 afr on idle isnt going to affect your fuel economy like your thinking.

most of your economy will come from lean cruise and light load points and clean fuel mixtures in the heavy load/boost areas.

since I dont have the laptop adapter & gaved away my lap top,

I will have a local tuner clean it up, hope I get better economy,

any tips to make sure we get it right
thanx
tony

Tune in matrix mode. And spend as much time as you can to cover all areas of the map.

thanx rx72c,

now the car feals great
we cleand it up alot today,
but not all the way the o2 sensor
on the dyno was messing up

good news we got 446whp @ 16 pounds peak
and my tuner sold me a serial adapter
so as soon as I get me a lap top will
try to clean it up some more

thanx again
tony

446 HP FARKEN HELL

AWESOME POWER.
Congratulations mate.
Let us know with the progress.

just a q.
but should i leave my REVstg set at 2750? or lower it due to the larger injectors. i know this only "ARMS" them, but im just curious....

I usually kick the 1700cc at 1320rpm so that im not trying to tune through the stage point.
It also makes the transition smoother.