FD3S: JKL Dry Carbon Hatch possibility?
 

Hey guys, at one point I was told you were able to make some dry carbon parts, but you didn't want to step on any toes. I for one appreciate on the awesome business ethics, but personally feel that the competition has allowed the "interest" thread to languish long enough to justify this thread.

The following folks are interested, or at least have expressed interest sometime since last november.

1. PDViper77
2. CarbonFD3Assault / AKA DriFD3S
3. KaoticFDR1
4. calculon
5. Mr. Stock
6. onefast3gen
7. Matt Hey
8. FDokinawa
9. FDokinawa
10. KaiFD3S
11. Perfect 7
12. thewird (depends on fitment)
13. Ptrhahn (depends on fitment)
14. blizzaga
15. alaskan7
16. Vest_racing
17. 7racer (depends on fitment)
18. Rotary_Rocket!
19. Seventh Heaven
20. Raffer
21. Coolant_Leak (depends on fitment)
22. Xplosive (depends on fitment and shipping to canada)
23. Sandrock (depends on fitment/final price)
24. Rx-7Addict
25. R-R-Rx7(depends on fitment,final price and the issue with the hydrolics)
26. sp_amend (depends on fitment and final price)
27. Beast from the East

I don't know how busy you are with other projects, but I think it's safe to say that there is some good potential for doing a significant amount of business here. If you feel this is inappropriate, please feel free to delete the thread.

Keep up the awesome work guys.

Yes, we have been observing the process of this project and did not want to interfere since Ken seems to show a positive interest in the project. However, it is possible for us to step in but there are several things need to be clarified for everyone interested in dry carbon parts.

I am not sure what prices/definitions were received by all the people on the above list so I want to make it clear to everyone that the real deal pre-preg dry carbon we can possibly offer is not going to be cheap.

In today's market, there are lots of information flying around and some of them are very misleading. But regardless of what fancy terms are used to advertise to you, the only real deal dry carbon is the pre-preg dry carbon process which requires the use of a whole set of different materials and equipments.

Sometimes, the vacuum infused wet carbon process is labeled as "dry carbon" because of their slightly superior resulting characteristics. And they become an affordable alternative for dry carbon even though their material properties are still much inferior to the real pre-preg dry carbon.

First, in order to begin production on real pre-preg dry carbon parts, our manufacturing facility will require a precision machined mold which must withstand the necessary heat and pressure that are required to properly cure the pre-preg CF materials. That's why the initial cost of production is much higher as compared to regular wet carbon production.

That being said. We can possibly offer the real deal dry carbon which, in my opinion, not worth the investment considering the application of the part, or we can go with the regular wet carbon process and offer an affordable product. The choice is yours so speak up, fellows!

Wet carbon should work for 99% of people. You know I'll be picking one up Kevin.

Great, Mike, you should put your build thread link in your signature so more people will see it. :D

So anyone else want to see us make a hatch?

I think the interest in "dry" carbon goes directly to functionality... specifically, that the part saves as much weight as possible, but also has the structural integrity and rigidity to support a large airfoil wing for track use.

The recon on FG and currently available CF hatches is, they accomplish the weight savings goal, but aren't sturdy enough to mount a wing to like the stock hatch, meaning you have to reinforce it or mount it to the trunk floor below.

I don't care if it's wet, dry, or whatever, so long as it accomplishes those goals.

Yes, we are aware of the need of integrity to support the large wings which we already produce. What we have thought of doing is to offer a wet carbon version with reinforced core near the bottom where the wings will be installed. Then, we can also offer an optional reinforcement structure which can be installed when a large wing is bolted to the hatch. It can serve as a stress bearing brace under the hatch to strengthen the hatch.

Anyone else got better ideas or suggestions?

Fixed Kevin! Thanks for the idea.

Good idea on reinforcements for wing mounting, I'd be interested, assuming the price isnt too crazy :p:

I think it's a great idea to have the hatch and support system separate as you described. You'll cover the broadest demographic that way and allow for upgradability.

I'm in. . . still.

Now, we just need more people to get this going. :D

I'm still interested. Once the ball gets rolling how long do you think it will take before we will see the hatches? Also any idea on the price yet?

Oh, Christ, why don't you just build us a complete carbon body for these silly things and be done with it - just use the old Jim Dowling GT2 body molds and let's get on with it! :)

Group Buy only 50K! Whoo hoo!

Well, pricing will be the factor of course - in the end it's the functionality I want, just like the fellows mentioned above. Assuming I get my wing this month (Hint, Kevin) and the quality is what we all expect, I'd planned on going in on the group buy for the rear diffuser......now this.

Yeah, I'm in.

What is the plan for folks regarding the glass - replace with Lexan or put the glass back in? Seems like the glass adds a lot of weight, but Lexan isn't really much better for weight, rather it doesn't shatter and leave glass particle dust in your eyes when things go bad......

Beast

I'm also interested but like mentioned above I want to be able to mount my wing and have it not twist/break under high speeds at the track 150+ miles/hour. Also, I would like to put the stock plastics back on it to keep the stock look as I will be painting it.

thewird

For the glass options, yes, we have also thought of that and will be possibly implementing our own optional reinforcement bars for those who will be installing Lexan or acrylic glass instead of the stock. The problem we see in lexan/acrylic glass is its light weight decreases the stability of the entire hatch assembly. What we will have to offer for the serious trackers is additional reinforcement to increase the integrity of the replacement glass. Just as a thought, we might also offer our own replacement acrylic glass at an affordable price, that's only if we can work out a deal with the glass manufacturer. :)

Alright Eric, you have been sending me repeated hints regarding your wing :lol: don't worry, you will get your wing very soon! :D

As far as projected timeline for this hatch project, we cannot promise anything yet since we still want to see how the interest list goes. As of now, not enough response to make this happen yet. Even when this takes off, we want to make this an unique street/track hatch instead of just another stock replica hatch. So we will put a reasonable amount of effort into modifying the designs while trying our best to minimize the time. Not saying this will take forever, but not gonna be a 2-week project either. Like we always do, we take the time to make sure things work before we send them out.

As far as pricing, not sure yet since there might be some modifications and optional parts involved, but our pricing is always reasonable, and our GB always follows the same rule: more participants = lower price. So let's see more interests! :)

I'll start the list off. . .

1) calculon
2) MotoTek
3) ptrhahn
4) MakoRacing
5) Seventh Heaven
6) Beast From The East
7) thewird

A nice, scratch resistant acrylic glass with screened black borders and a bit of tint like the stock would be great. The current ones available always have a hard black edge, and are perfectly clear so stick out like a sore thumb.

Since my car is track only my choice would be clear in the back - I have tinted film in the back now and while it was good for highway use, it blurs the view in the back and I want to make sure I can see who is behind me and yield the way if I've got a better driver behind me. I hate bad track manners and really am disappointed when I hold someone up.

The most important part, as mentioned already, is that it has the strength to handle the JKL rear wing at 150+mph :) We gotta try to keep up with those damn 600 hp Porsche GT2's that are coming out. That yellow one at Infineon went around me like I was standing still.

Kevin, might as well start thinking about doors (alredy set up for door bars) and fenders (front and rear, with flares) to accomodate larger wheel setups. I'd prefer to buy them from a unified vendor vs. the way Tapped has had to mix Sibon parts and yours - the fitment isn't what Brian would like.....

You're going to end up with a lot of my money in the coming years, it would seem.

Beast

^^^^

Yup, but clear acrylic windows, like CF hatches w/out structural integrity for wings, are already available in the marketplace. Might as well focus on making stuff you can't get currently.

+1 on getting the ball rolling on the doors.

if the price is right im in,.

Eric, you actually read my mind, lol, I have been thinking about doors too. They might get worked on at the same time as the hatch if we can locate a set of good condition doors. As far as fenders, we do already offer the widebody kit. But for standalone fender setups, we might look into designing our own in the near future but that will depend on the amount of interest. Yeah, Brian was not very happy with the Seibon stuff and he wanted doors from us too but I said we are not making them yet. :D Well, once the Porsche starts getting some good dual clutch systems, that's the time when things get a bit scary :lol:

For the acrylic glass, if we are producing one, we will make it a special design which will incorporate compatibility with our reinforcement structures on the hatch. But as far as giving it a special edge finish, that might be a bit too difficult since too much labor involved and the glass manufacturer usually will either not do it or charge a lot. So we would prefer to keep the variations to the minimum and offer just one version.

im in too... but again it all depends on the price

No need to reinvent the wheel with Lexan windows. Percy's Speedglass is the best on the market (scratch resistant compared to normal Lexan, and doesn't yellow). They make both FD and FC glass.

Im sure the price will be reasonable... And just for referance a lot of places claim dry carbon but its not TRUE dry carbon they just vacuum infuse it and use less resin which saves a little weight... TRUE dry carbon is a completely different process and would cost around $1800-$2000( this is usually stuff only used by race teams) a piece but would be rediculouslly stiff and lite and it usually doenst give the pretty pattern we have all grown so accustom too. And a lot of manufatures for our hatch made them intending them to be running stock plastics underneath I would not expect these ones to have that so dont plan on putting your stock plastics back on. In order to make a decent brace for the wing you would have to change that...

Chris

I started the GB over at the Shine vendor forum. Ken is too backed up to start this so I am definately in this GB. Only problem for me is when do I have to make the first deposit because I just started my new job this week and won't really have any money until next month.

1) calculon
2) MotoTek
3) ptrhahn
4) MakoRacing
5) Seventh Heaven
6) Beast From The East
7) thewird
8) PDViper77

Just get this done. Make a batch of 30. I'm sure you will sell if you have in hand. If you need a deposit, we can give as long as you provide an eta.

thewird

I'm interested, what is the cost going to be? What about some lexan rear glass.. isn't this where a lot of the weight savings comes from?

You do save more weight from the glass than the hatch. I bought my lexan rear window from summitracing.com. It is a FAL brand window. I just need a carbon hatch to put it in now.

Bump

No shit! There's a few items like this that never seem to get made despite serious demand, meanwhile we get carbon fiber sunshades.

added myself to the list...

1) calculon
2) MotoTek
3) ptrhahn
4) MakoRacing
5) Seventh Heaven
6) Beast From The East
7) thewird
8) PDViper77
9) 7racer

Hey Peter. At the Memorial that is why me and Andrew were bidding on the hatch so we could have a primo peice to make a mold from. However, Davin assured me that the hatch would not go to waste so maybe oneday he will do something about this...

added myself to the list...

1) calculon
2) MotoTek
3) ptrhahn
4) MakoRacing
5) Seventh Heaven
6) Beast From The East
7) thewird
8) PDViper77
9) 7racer
10) afgmoto1978

I'd like a commitment to build by a due date with X number of people on the list.

These things have been started so many times, with several different vendors, and it ends up three pages of people reposting the list and adding "anyone know if this is happening?" posts. i'd rather just take my name off the list.

TOTALLY AGREE!! Would love to see this finally get off the ground.

I have been waiting forever about this!!!...
it's Winter in Canada soon, and I'm rebuilding... this hatch was a big part of that!!

I want it so bad.

You and me both lol. Where is the hatch :P

thewird

I can't believe the poor turn out here. I PM'ed everyone on the other list. But quite literally, I can't believe the poor turn out. What I mean is, I agree wholly with:
and
I'd be happy to try again to drum up more interest. What's the minimum number you guys are looking for to begin the project?

im still interested. Just need some questions answered..

1.) can you ship to Japan? a couple hundred in shipping is not a problem seeing how I cant get a good CF hatch over here for less then $3K(true dry carbon).

2.) will I be able to use the stock hinges? im not worried about the stock shocks, can always use something to prop the hatch open.. but I'd rather not have to remove the whole thing anytime I need to access my trunk.

I'd say this is yet another dud.

:(

thewird

I was browsing RE Amemiya's site the other day and saw that they are now offering true dry carbon hatches and doors. The price is pretty high, but if anyone was REALLY wanting any of it, there is a reliable resource available.

For now, I'm going to continue to hold out.

carbonman on the forums sells them too and they are perfect fitment as he is the one who made the carbon pieces for the RX-7 SP in Australia. They are obviously pricy though.

thewird

<sigh>

Carbon fiber air conditioning knobs anyone?

1) calculon
2) MotoTek
3) ptrhahn
4) MakoRacing
5) Seventh Heaven
6) Beast From The East
7) thewird
8) PDViper77
9) To_Slow

adding myself...

1) calculon
2) MotoTek
3) ptrhahn
4) MakoRacing
5) Seventh Heaven
6) Beast From The East
7) thewird
8) PDViper77
9) To_Slow
10) sp_amend

Hey I don't scan the forums much anymore but I am still super interested in this. Please add me to the list!!!! BUILD THE HATCH PLEASE!

1) calculon
2) MotoTek
3) ptrhahn
4) MakoRacing
5) Seventh Heaven
6) Beast From The East
7) thewird
8) PDViper77
9) To_Slow
10) sp_amend
11.)7racer
12.)blizzaga

Shoot I remember reading your PM calculon and thought that I had added myself to the list.



Please get this thing going. If JKL does do this I'll have complete confidence they'll do it right! They do top notch work! + I'm local. I've been waiting a long time for this....maybe when I do get I'll just frame it on my wall :)



~Shar

I'm in the market for one of these like rlly bad. Did this ever happen?

dont buy from jkl, check his updates page. over a year and people are still waiting for various parts and are out alot of money.