Hi everyone, I have a proejct car GSL-SE that I've been slowly restoring. I swapped in an S5 NA 13b including intake, but it's still running off the original S3 (GSL-SE) fuel injection parts and ECM. It runs, but not very well. Certain RPM ranges cause a lot of backfire, and it doesn't have consistent power. Basically it's 'good enough' to break in the new engine but it's not a long-term solution.

I want to go Haltech mostly due to how modern it is. I understand I could get away with something cheaper but eventually would like a Haltech in my FD, and I want them to be consistent.

I am BRAND NEW to engine management aside from minor PowerFC tinkering, and I've never installed a standalone like this. I could use some help with my parts list, and in answering a few questions.Parts:

• Haltech elite 1000 + 8ft Lead (1000 seems to be the minimum to drive the OMP?)
• Wideband O2 sensor (AEM?)
• AEM ignition coils x4
• Spark plug wires
• S5 NGK spark plugs
• Secondary fuel injectors (unsure which)
• Various connectors (injectors, temp sensors, coils)
• MAP sensor or TPS?
• Good wire crimpers
• Some sort of wiring heat shielding

Anything else I need to tackle this?
Open questions:
1. Will any wideband O2 sensor work or are there specific ones that work better with Haltech?
2. What's best to use: MAP sensor (internal or external), TPS, MAF? I only have the GSL-SE AFM and TPS, neither of which are very precise so I'll need an upgrade
3. Will this Haltech be able to control the 5/6th port actuators based on RPM, as well as the VCTS?
4. Where can I find a starting tune for this NA setup?
5. Can I (or should I) use my GSL-SE primary injectors or should I swap those out also?

In case anyone is interested, here's my build thread! https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...build-1129468/

 

i've just taken a shallow dive on ECU's lately, and i would download the Haltech software and play around a little. the Eltie stuff seems to be pretty good, although i'm finding it less well documented than the platinum, those have a little box in the corner that explains the choices of the box you're in. i suggest the software because it makes you choose the wires and pinout of what you're wanting to run, and its a neat feature and you can make sure the haltech you're choosing has enough outputs.

1. Wideband, there is an option, but i think its an input from a controller, i'm not sure it needs more digging.
2. with an NA car its pretty easy to use the TPS, although there is an onboard map sensor, and that works too.
3. yes, you can setup an output that is RPM and Load, just like the factory setup.
4. not sure, although you can start with the Rx7 map and modify it.
5. totally up to you. if it was mine i would probably run the FC injectors, 4x460 is bigger than 2x680...

 

I was thinking of picking up a set of FC secondary injectors and running GSL-SE primaries – I assume this works? My only concern is that the GSL-SE injectors are somehow antiquated. I do have a set of FD secondaries on the shelf but I think they are side feed and FCs aren't (I'd have to double check)

 

IIRC, the GSL-SE injectors were rated something like 680cc/min, and the FC injectors are 460cc/min (N/A) or 550cc/min (turbo), so if you put the GSL-SE injectors in the primary spots, you'll probably have a rougher time tuning the pri/sec staging and fuel map in general. Also, those old GSL-SE injectors might not be too happy operating at low duty cycles/short pulse widths, so if you use them as primaries, getting a smooth idle may be a challenge.

Short of spending for aftermarket FIs (ID, Bosch, etc.), I'd just drop 4 FC injectors in there and call it a day. You can do a mix of N/A & turbo FC injectors, but if you do that, stick the N/A injectors in the primary holes.

 

^^^ exactly, the Haltech lets you do whatever you want, but the smaller injectors will work better as primaries, both because they are the next generation better, but also because they are smaller. the GSL-SE as secondaries are fine, but an NA engine does fine with 4x460 injectors

injectors usually have non linear spots in the duty cycle/fuel delivery curve, and it happens at very high duty cycles (over 85%) and low duty cycles. smaller primaries will have a higher duty cycle and thus be in a more linear spot.

 

If you're new, I'd stick with a single ecosystem. Haltech has their own Wideband controller that isn't really any better than any other aftermarket 4.9 based controller its just far easier for a newer person to configure (really wire up properly and not worry about ground offsets). Just make sure you're buying a newer WB1 that supports the Bosch LSU 4.9.

With regards to injection, you're able to use just about anything that you'd want to, though I'd recommend that if you're taking the time you spend a couple hundred dollars extra and buy a newer style injector and tophat setup rather than use 80s tech. They don't have to be a set of ID injectors but a nice(r) set of EV injectors will make your life and transient tuning easier.

Spend money on wiring and tools for wiring. Use some google fu and look up ProWireUsa, Ballenger Motorsports, NZefi, and LMS efi.

Last but not least:
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html

 

i'm a little disappointed that the ECU doesn't do the wideband and you need an extra box.

 

Thanks for the recommendations. I know very little about injectors so I appreciate this info. The cost of some of these newer ones isn't much more than the cost of 4x used FC injectors plus cleaning, so I'll probably go that route. I only thought of using the GSL-SE injectors because 1) I have them and 2) I just got them cleaned.

The wideband wiring and ground doesn't worry me too much, I've already been through it with the Ballenger v2 I put in my FD w/ a datalogit. I was just curious if there is a cheaper Bosch 4.9 model that would get the job done since it's only an NA car anyway, or if the Haltech ECM requires specific models. I splurged on the $360 Ballenger setup for the FD at the time, and the Haltech wideband is still $300. It just seems high.

I was aware of LMS-EFI but not the others. LMS doesn't have everything I need, but Chris is a super nice guy – he actually tuned my FD. I'll probably order the ECM from him at least

 

Any wideband controller or gauge will work with the Haltech, but for ease of use, I would highly recommend using the Haltech controller and/or gauge and run it through the CAN system. It frees up an input that way and keeps wiring simple. If not, then there's always the old fashioned analogue voltage gauges and controllers. Ballenger allegedly makes the best unit. I've been using the Haltech controller on my FD and it's been great for the year I've been using it. AEM also makes the super fast reacting X series gauge, but I would try to avoid AEM when possible. I have also heard that NGK has a good unit as well, but don't know anyone personally who uses it. While it does suck the Haltechs don't have internal wideband controller, I rather have an external controller fry itself vs an internal frying itself and potentially canning my ecu.

 

Totally valid point, my hesitation with the Elite is just the cost, and adding another box makes it worse.

 

I have a 1980 that I am turbocharging a 13b out of a GSL_SE using a S4 N/A intake

at this point I have:

Elite750 with premium harness
Wideband module with sensor
Haltech TPS mounted using a bracket a fabbed together.
Haltech Air intake Sensor
Haltech coolant sensor
4 AEM IGN1A "Smart coils"
4 Injector Dynamics 1050x
Turbosmart FPR
Relays for electric fans.

Replaced the S1 fuseable link with a S4 fuseable link adding more power outputs.
I also needed a weatherpack and duetch crimper. various connectors and wire management. so many tools.
The fuel lines are now AN. which may have been overkill.
Hours and hours of reading and schematics and ESP software.

I still need to purchase
A fuel pump and filter
turbo solenoid
Flex Fuel sensor (?)

All this and I still haven't supplied power to the unit yet. I can't understate how over budget I am. Yes, I could have done a few things a bit more cheaply. It's the vast amount of small cost things. the electrical connectors, the crimp tools.

Most everything is in my build thread in my signature.

 

This is awesome thank you! Very similar to what I am doing, just without the turbo for me

Couple questions:
1) What made you go with the 750 over 1000 or better? I'm looking at the 1000 to drive the electric OMP which I guess you don't have on that block. But depending on cost I could always just keep premixing
2) Are the haltech sensors required or can you use OEM for things like air temp, coolant temp, etc?
3) Are you keeping the BACV? If not what mechanism are you using to maintain a stable idle with accessories like AC?
4) Any reason you went with the Haltech TPS over a MAP sensor? I currently don't have a suitable TPS, but I do have an S5 MAP sensor or could use the Haltech internal one.

Just the ECM + lead, wideband, and coils put me in the $2100 ballpark. I'm assuming a few hundred more in connectors and tools. This is definitely a pricy project

 

I am currently using the Sprint RE in my GSL-SE and am also new to this. However, before the Haltech, I ran a complete S5 intake with working VDI flawlessly. Injectors were stock, yes, only the two 680's. My main reason for going with the Haltech was mostly to get rid of emissions and to eliminate things that were either way too outdated or things that would clean up the engine bay. Plus it would be ready to go if I ever wanted to boost. With that said, I removed all the emissions, AFM, Distributor, etc. The aux ports worked, and still work as they should off of exhaust back pressure. The VDI was operated by a small pump triggered by an RMP switch. I don't have the VDI hooked up now. I will get to that this weekend. But now it will be triggered by the Haltech via the VDI solenoid. I currently am using the NGK AFX WBO2 controller and the Haltech built-in map sensor. I would definitely use the stock S5 injectors.......no need for anything more. That will probably be the next thing I do with my SE is to use all 4 S5 injectors. Anyway, good luck with your project.

 

Buy once, cry once. buying into a limited feature set to save a few dollars now is an exercise in punching yourself in your own ***** when you want to play around and do other things or realize you didn't roadmap everything properly.

 

you can use any sensor you want, if its not the same (like the coolant temp sensor), its configurable.

 

This is awesome thank you! Very similar to what I am doing, just without the turbo for me

Couple questions:
1) What made you go with the 750 over 1000 or better? I'm looking at the 1000 to drive the electric OMP which I guess you don't have on that block. But depending on cost I could always just keep premixing

My build is modest. I am not making a dedicated racecar. I was looking at the 550 model, but Haltech had a Black Friday sale that was enough for me to bump up o the 750.

2) Are the haltech sensors required or can you use OEM for things like air temp, coolant temp, etc?
Many sensors are supported. Since I am new I just stayed in the Haltech ecosystem

3) Are you keeping the BACV? If not what mechanism are you using to maintain a stable idle with accessories like AC?

Yes, I am using the stock BAC

4) Any reason you went with the Haltech TPS over a MAP sensor? I currently don't have a suitable TPS, but I do have an S5 MAP sensor or could use the Haltech internal one.
My understanding is the S5 TPS would work. The S4 TPS would not work. It would seem the newer Haltech brushless TPS would have better accuracy.

 

Thanks for the info

I may wait and see if Haltech does another sale this year, that's really good to know

 

Time for an update. I've made a few purchases:

1. Haltech Elite 1000 + premium flying lead ($1400)
2. AEM IGN1A ignition coils x4 ($305)
3. RX-8 450cc injectors x4 ($58)
4. Haltech single channel CAN wideband o2 sensor ($270)
5. Connectors for CAS, injectors, air temp sensor ($~25)

I still need a couple random things:
1. A base map for an NA S5
2. S5 TPS
3. Connectors for other sensors/items (OMP, BACV, IACV, solenoids for 5/6th port actuators and VCS. anything else I'm forgetting?)
4. Wiring tools e.g. crimpers (help me out here)
5. Some sort of wiring harness wrap/protective cover
6. Spark plugs

The wiring lead will take a few weeks to get here so I'm trying to iron out the rest of the details before then. What am I missing? Anything I need to know before I rip out my wires?