RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum - GB: Aluminum Map Pocket Lid (driver door)

RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum (https://www.rx7club.com/)

- Group Buy & Product Dev. FD RX-7 (https://www.rx7club.com/group-buy-product-dev-fd-rx-7-269/)

- - GB: Aluminum Map Pocket Lid (driver door) - SakeBomb Garage (https://www.rx7club.com/group-buy-product-dev-fd-rx-7-269/gb-aluminum-map-pocket-lid-driver-door-sakebomb-garage-943953/)

+1 the logic here makes perfect sense - I don't want to have to replace this again, the stock design is very poor

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBGarage (Post 10549704)

we could possibly get the price down cheaper (by about 20 bucks) if we didnt have the handles machined (ie roll pin like stock, vs machining for a replacement bolt with a pivot collar)... though our current solution is really the best fix for the problem (from a technical standpoint). The roll (like stock and company X) creates slop in the pivot point, which is made worse by the plastic bearings it pivots around. This is directly why the lids break (from this slop)

Alright, finally sent my money; hope this goes through.

cashed out my stocks soon as they get here ill send payment, sorry for the holdup.

I'll update the list tomorrow, sorry for the delay guys. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by yzf-r1 (Post 10551356)

+1 the logic here makes perfect sense - I don't want to have to replace this again, the stock design is very poor

Yeah the map lid is the weakest part so it breaks first, but if you dont fix the pin problem, the next part to see the stress is the pocket itself... and once thats broken, it cant be replaced. So, fix the problem wrong, and you run the risk of making the problem worse :( and the whole thing is NLA from mazda now :icon_tdow

Here is the paid/deposit list :) Keep em coming.

1. Caredden - 93
2. 94touringfd - 94
3. Renesisfd - 93
4. Fdcurt - 94
5. Rotorious - 93
6. Montego- 94
7. Joey77051-93
8. Sp_amend - 94
9. Capitalfd3s - 93
10. Rxmfn7- 94
11. Funkspectrum - 94
12. Speedjunkie - 94
13. Moosejaw - 93
14. Mrgne1 - 93 - PAID
15. Azeknightz - 93
16. 86v8rx7 - 93
17. Blouzbee - 93
18. Nv02 - 93
19. Mister destiny - 94
20. Artowar - 94
21. 1txrx7-94
22. Johgar - 94
23. Yzf-r1 - 93 - PAID
24. Mazdaspeed00 - 93
25. T2terror
26. Crispyrx7 - 93
27. Danny fd3s
28. Zaidnew
29. Evopanda-93
30. Gringo grande - 93
31. Crazydevil - 93
32. Evanchix - 93
33. Scrub -94 - PAID
34. Beckrx - 94 - PAID
35. Yoshifc3s - 94
36. Browndog9 - 93
37. Tuesday - 93
38. Adidastrip - 94
39. Carlb - 93
40. Sideo - 94
41. Monkman33 - 94
42. danny fd3s-93
43.Reno_NVFD-93
44. BillM - 94 - $125 deposit
45. ChrisChung125
46. JdmRX - 94 - PAID
47. WNEC98 - 94
48. Azrae1 - 94 - PAID

-Dan

I guess interest in this evaporated? Bizarre...

not for me, just don't have the money right now but soon.

Money where my mouth is. Paid in full, lets get this done.

lots of interest but not many payments... me thinks this may not happen lol

Thanks to everyone so far that DID send payment/deposit

looks like the interest has died out... once again. this is obviously due to the competition making a similar product. as we can't make the lid using our rubber mold process without everyone in the interest list on board it looks like this project probably wont happen afterall :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotorMotor (Post 10548219)

The issue really is turn around time... it would be a couple weeks to have the molds made, cast a couple lids off the mold, then verify fitment and have the machining fixture made... then another few weeks for the big production run. Coat with our proprietary coating, pack with hardware and ship. With another company attempting to produce a similar part, but at a quarter of the cost, it's a tricky position to try to make a part at cost.

Ultimately our lid will cost $260 shipped including PP fees (and we walk away breaking even).

The 'competition' is offering $200 (without mentioning shipping and paypal fees which should be at least $15) to sell a part using a cheaper process, made overseas, not machined, no examples of the finish or if they can retain the stock texture in whatever casting process they are using...

But at the end of the day, most people would rather would rather take a shot in the dark with company X for the $45 savings. Thats just how it goes in the FD world now... nickel and dime-ing parts is now commonplace and, quality comes second to cost. Ebay parts are common place on the FD now... it's all got to do with the cheapening prices of FD's.

We have to have backing from the FD community to make this thing... I just don't see it materializing with the lure of a cheap replacement out there... but maybe I'm wrong. :dunno: In the last year the FD market has started to resemble the FC market more and more, and that kinda ties our hands as FD enthusiasts wanting to make QUALITY upgrade parts for the FD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotorMotor (Post 10579641)

excuse me if i missed this but out of curiosity what method were/are you trying to use to make these? i as under the impression you are making an aluminum cast but you mentioned rubber mold process?:scratch:

Quote:

Originally Posted by muibubbles (Post 10581080)

There are many ways to cast aluminum.... investment casting (which is where you take a wax positive, encase it in plaster, melt the wax out and pour aluminum in), sand casting (where you stamp a positive form into basically damp sand and fill that with aluminum), and rubber mold casting (where you make a positive rubber mold of the part, fill it with a high temp ceramic slurry, then bake that ceramic shell, and fill it with aluminum). There are other casting processes but these are the relevant ones for this part. Investment and sand casting are the cheapest, rubber mold is the most expensive by far and only a handful of foundries are setup for this process.

Investment casting is quick and dirty... sand casting is dirt cheap once the mold to stamp into the sand is made.

very interesting info! i didnt know you could cast aluminum with a rubber mold...

where you make a positive rubber mold of the part, fill it with a high temp ceramic slurry, then bake that ceramic shell, and fill it with aluminum)
im not sure i understand that process 100%... im lost after you fill it with the high temp slurry.. does this harden on its own? and bake what ceramic shell? from my understanding at this point you have the ceramic slurry in the rubber mold still so im lost with what "ceramic shell" you bake? do you have anymore info on this?

i didnt know investment casting was cheap either! if you dont mind me asking, whats your profession? is manufacturing a part of your field?

Quote:

Originally Posted by muibubbles (Post 10581445)

no no you dont cast with the rubber mold itself, you use the rubber mold to take the super fine ceramic slurry (which is cold). After it dries it is removed from the rubber mold, and (since it's ceramic) you bake it at an extremely high temprature to fuse the thin ceramic shell. After it cools the ceramic shells get lined up and molten aluminum is poured in (a special disposable ceramic filter is installed at the top to remove any additional impurities from the casting process).

The "rubber mold" type casting process is extremely sophisticated compared to the rough and dirty investment/lost wax casting, and it shows in the quality of the product as well as the accuracy of the surface. The penalty you pay to use this process is the cost, which is why we need a large number of people to make this happen, and why (if the project ever happens) we would be doing it completely at cost. The competition is using lost wax/investment casting to make their covers which makes the parts very cheap to make.

hey guys I think this thing has petered out... I'll talk to Dan about refunding everyones money for deposits... the interest is just not here. Thanks to those who stuck it out :)

Sorry to hear, but I agree it doesn't look like it's going to happen

That blows, but at least now you have more time to focus on that fire extinguisher mount yeah?

Yup, once we get caught up on the headlights the fire extinguisher bracket is next on the docket :) I'll try to refund everyone's deposits today. Sorry we couldn't make this happen guys.

-Dan

How much would it cost to do these in CF?

So is this officially done? I didnt realize this thread was updated (my fault). I'm definitely in if this thing goes down again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuesday (Post 10593960)

So is this officially done? I didnt realize this thread was updated (my fault). I'm definitely in if this thing goes down again.

Yeah we have a handful of people and cant do it with any less than 50-70. So it's basically in the can.

We had the numbers at first, but the allure of a slightly cheaper part (that didnt address the flaws in the original design, and uses a rough/dirty/cheap casting method) from "the competition" caused this thing to flop. That's the problem with the FD now, the community as a whole is after one thing now, a bargain basement price, and lower quality parts are a result.

Some might ask, who cares, its just a cover? Our response is, if it is not 100% identical to the stock piece, and is re-engineered to solve the existing problem(s), then it's not a fix. Call us anal, but Dan and I have a mission statement that goes something like: "If it doesnt look like stock, fit like stock, have a finish like stock, and perform exceedingly better than the stock part... then we don't want it on our cars" . This is because we genuinely love these cars and would not consider creating parts that do not stand the test of time. Unfortunately many "new/younger" owners out there see the FD as a cool car to buy, then drive hard/modify/trash and move on in a few years to something else.... like the FD is disposable.

We simply cant cater to the consumer trying to find bargain basement deals, cause when we produce a part we leave no stone unturned in making sure it's the best. Like with our headlights and oil cooler kits we end up setting the "gold standard" but unfortunately that leads to copycat-ers trying to sell something "similar" but much much cheaper to turn a buck. Many of the parts we do we simply break even on, or make extremely little. Our headlights for example have to be hand built (something like 60 different steps) and between the raw parts cost and the labor it takes to produce, I'm basically volunteering my time. Same with this piece... since we couldnt produce it the way we wanted to and sell it for a marginal markup, we were volunteering to sell it at exactly the same cost as it cost us to make as a service to the FD community as a whole. It just didn't work out cause there was another guy out there willing to significantly lower the quality using a very cheap casting process and no machine work, turn a buck, and sell the part for $50 cheaper. It's the world we live in unfortunately.

PS sorry for the rant... it's just frustrating being in this position and trying to combat cheap parts where someone is making money hand over fist, when we are doing something significantly better and not making a cent :icon_tdow

-Heath