My dad thinks rotaries are crap: How to convince him otherwise?
 

My dad seems to have it in his head that rotaries are peices of crap, at least in terms of reliability.

He said they require specialists when it comes to maintenance and tune ups, etc.

I guess that's true when it comes to rebuilds, but what about basic repairs and diagnostics?

Other than a car that has one or two major problems once in a while (which seem to pretty much be one big one per individual car, from what I've read on the boards...), are there really any big problems for rotaries?

My parents are always saying that any car over 100,000 miles probably won't last much longer (at least without a serious overhaul or a rebuild), but both of their primary cars are way over 100,000 (one is over 175,000).

So how can I convince him that rotaries aren't the devil?

Not just so they'll help me buy one :D *cough*

Just because I like my parents to be well enformed. hehe.

first exaggerate the truth.
second lie about the exaggeration

Okay so from my expereince the rotary motor is decently relieable. But you might be want to have some mechanicial skills. If you know what you are doing then they are VERY relieble. Example, doinng the de-carbonizing helps greatly. You can add more coolant with a hot engine. Cheap parts for FC's. I would recommend you get a 88 up model because they had built in fuel cut off in the thr throttle. I have an 87 and i wish i had that. Makes unflooding much easier. But there are so many early 80's rx7's meaning they cant be crap can they? you dont see you many 79 buicks around do you?

I'm looking for an 89-91 TII. (*eyeballs that one with the torn seats in the classifieds area*)

My dad is good at maintaining cars since, well, he did all his own repairs and his 88 Toyota truck with 175,000 miles+ is still running perfectly.

I'm not mechanically inept, but I don't have much experience maintaning cars.

One time I did take apart a pump shotgun and put it together with no manual within 30 minutes... when I was maybe 12... heh.

I never thought it would have been that hard :P

FAQ's are youor friend. Now are you in Japan and getting a Japan version? RHD is sweet. Anywho, it really isnt hard to work on them.

I'd rather have an RHD, but I don't know if the J-Spec FC would be able to be imported and DOT legalized with the "sufficiently similar" clause.

I figure I could get one in good or repairable condition for less than $3,000...

Shipping to the states would probably be... ah, hell, I don't know. It changes from dealer to dealer.

And if an RI was required to modify it, God only knows how much that would cost.

Essentially, it would make finding a low-mileage S5 turbo (INIFNI!!!) easy, but it would make buying it a lot more expensive...

You should see the parts some of the Japanese companies have (I bought an RX-7 tuning book)...

Everything from new gear sets with different ratios to fiberglass racing doors (RE Amemiya website) to 100 different brands of replacement ECU...

6 speed racing transmission anyone?

I don't suppose you've tried converting the price from yen to dollars on those japanese parts you've seen, have you? That makes them suddenly look less exciting. You can buy plenty of good parts stateside, don't get caught up in the ricer 'JDM is cool' mentality.

N/a rotaries are pretty reliable, look for some FAQs. Also, if you can find old consumer reports, they give rx7's a pretty good rating.

However, your parents are right. Most cars over 100,000 don't have much life left in them (unless you have a toyota or maybe honda). Most all turbo rotaries are junk by 100K (especially FD's) Basically, a n/a FC is pretty cheap to own and maintain, and can be good, reliable cars. Like any used car, you just have to be very careful when buying one. Check it out thoroughly, VIN number, have a mechanic check it out, etc. If you are looking at an FD, you either have to be rich, or be a mechanic. Period.

Also, rotaries do have a wildly ineffecient combustion chamber design, get bad gas milage, and make horrible emissions. Oh, and they are loud as hell with free flowing exhausts, not to mention they smell bad. (rx8 excluded from all these points)

Would I trade my FD for any other car, HELL NO! (well....except maybe a ferrari :-)

How reliable is a properly rebuilt engine originally from a 100,000+ FC S5 Turbo II? Good for another 60,000 plus?...

*awaits laughter*

Or only 20,000 or so?


And yes, I know that all of those parts are expensive as hell. And they're cool because they're cool, not because they're JDM. I'm only interested in a JDM FC since I might have an easier time finding a turbo one with low mileage, seeing as how all Japanese FCs are turbo.

well if icemark was watching this he'd tell you that turbo rx7's s5 vs. can last from either 50k miles to 250k miles. its all about maint. of the car. it doesnt matter really if its a rotary or not. my t2 s4 had about 90k on it, but due to lack of maint. for injectors I fried my motor. These cars are great, and i do suggest getting a turbo 2 while you have a chance.

Rebuilds arent that much in the states here, could be between $500-1500 depending on weather its rebuilt urself or by a professional. I know 16 yr old kids that can rebuild these motors. People think there so complicated, but they confuse complication with not understanding how they work. they only have 3 moving parts compared to your conventional 4 piston motor wich has atleast 41 moving parts.

A rebuilt turbo 2 motor can get atleast 100,000 miles on it depending on mods, fuel management, and how u beat on it in its everday life. if you do get it rebuilt, dont boost at all until you have atleast 3k miles on it. then just boost away, ull have better gas mileage and better chances of not breaking your seals. If your dad doesnt like it, then to bad, cuz these cars are more fun than any other car i own.

I'm considering getting aftermarket temperature guages and improving the cooling system (new radiator, radiator plate, etc...).

Do electric fans actually improve cooling, or really even give back horsepower lost to the mechanically-linked fan?

I assume you mean at least 100,000 MORE miles :P

If so, then that makes me feel a lot better about rotaries.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the Mazda 13B since 1986 - this is when Mazda has figured out all the bugs to making the engines reliable.
It just comes down to common sense, and some rules of thumb for the 13B - redline the motor occasionally, never overheat, always use good oil and stick to a religious schedule of oil and oil filter changes, flush the cooling system.

With NA's, 200,000 miles is expected life expectancy.
With turbos it's slightly less due to the fact that a lot of them are making more power than stock - increase in power output will decrease engine life.
But, 100,000 miles out of a turbo 13B is not entirely out of the question.

Now, if Mazda will quit messing with the damn apex seal design...


-Ted

^^ya, maintanence plays a big role, however, mazda was far from working out the bugs in 1986, I would go so far to say that the rx8 renisis(an overhauled 13B) is still far from working the bugs out.

The only way to convince people that rotaries don't suck is, sack-punch them repeatedly until they like them... :bigthumb:

My dad asked a car dealer friend of his about the RX-7 (told him he was looking for an FC Turbo II), and the guy laughed at him.

Arg.

He said he hadn't seen one of them in years, and that they're peices of junk.

And that no one will work on rotaries.

Wtf.

I don't get why they're peices of junk if there's still so many of them running around.

And now my parents are demanding to know why I want this particular car. And as if they would help me buy one over the internet (ie, the only place to find one when you're in Alabama or are not incredible lucky).

So much hate for the 7 :P

So what was wrong with the 1986 engines?


-Ted

people that know absolutely nothing about a rotary, or how to work on them, will say they're junk. just get one and learn to work on it. ur dad will eventually come around, then u'll have something to teach him.

unfortuanetly, 'tis true and true. they are very rare in my area. quirky maintenance schedule kills them. regular people can barely keep up with a regular car's already lax maintenance schedule.

also, there are very few mechanics who know how to deal with this car. few rx7 owners take their cars to mechanics, and those few that do take them to rotary specialists.

a turbo II with over 100k probably won't last much longer without a rebuild.

that being said, they aren't as horrible as your dad makes them out to be. but it is going to take alot of research and some hands on work to maintain and repair the car if you get one.

oh, btw e-fan doesn't carry any inherent performance gain. primary reason ppl get them is to clear up space in the engine bay or b/c their stock mech fan died and froze.

the 'hp gain' from a mech fan -> efan mod happens when the viscous mech fan is frozen... so it comes on all the time instead of just when the engine is hot. remember... when you replace a mech fan with e-fan, the drain is switched from the crank to the alternator (which now has to put out a little more power to power the e-fan).

in other words, if its working fine theres no reason to replace it.

Well, since I'm rather new to the whole rotory thing, I guess I wouldn't heed my advice too thoroughly, although I do consider myself a very knowledgeable mechanic. For instance, I've been maintaining my '78 toyota celica for five years, it's finally dying now at 312,000 miles, I'm very proud of my baby.. <sniff> Anyway, on to the subject at hand: I've recently bought an '82 rx7 in not running condition, if you want, check it out in my garage to get an idea of what I had to do to get it running. Here's the thing though, I'll admit, the carb is a royal p.o.s. but it's not mazda's fault, it's old for cryin' out loud. I put a rebuild in the carb and ran seafoam through it for a while, and let me just say, this is the funnest car I have ever owned! This was the simplest engine I have ever worked on, and the most fun I've ever had doing so. For two months since I got it running I've done nothing but :D. By the way, I have the 12A with the fourbarrel carb, heh heh, my horse and torque spec's are as proceeds: 101 horses@6000r's, and 105 ft.lbs.@6000r's, heh heh, you guys' with the 13b's got a 4600r's torque peak! So here's what I've been building up to man, my rx7 had over 163,000 miles on it when I bought it, I've put over ohh, 700 miles on it, most of that with my foot to the floor, and I have not had a single issue with it. One more thing, sorry, I know I'm long winded, it takes me a maximum of three to four seconds to reach oh, around 40, at what point I decide to throw it into second gear. That's 10K man, I'd like to see somebody beat that with a piston driven crankshaft thrower:D. Without spending 10 grand anyway, heheheheh.

I guess I'll address the electric fan issue as well. A clutch fan requires about 6-7 horses to turn, assuming it's in good condition. Naturally, if you're not really worried about a few horsepower, than there's no need to just up and replace it with an electric, even if it's gone bad(electric fans do require some work to put in, relay switches and whatnot). But, if you need some extra's, yes do put in a electric. First reason: They only run when the engine reaches it's peak temperature, and it'll only run for a minute or two. Second reason: The horsepower difference from the alternator is negligable. A high-end alternator will restrict no more then two horsepower with an electric fan. That's 5 horses difference, or as much as 15 if the clutch fan's bad ;). As I'm sure you may have noticed, with the public's oncoming obssession with horsepower and gas mileage, virtually all new cars come with electric fans. Oh yeah, it will also help out with the mileage too, if only a couple mpg.

personally, my dad was like that too. luckily all it took was giving him the keys for a day + some major over exaggeration of the truth. i learned how to do all the work on the car by myself so i became the specialist -of sort. he is in love now.

my parents were both the same way.... I just kept at it and after a while the realized that this was the only kind of car I wanted and they couldn't convince me different, so they just gave in. I bought an S5 TII with an engine with only a couple thousand miles on it... that's the way to go. I don't have to worry about it at all for a long time :)

-Myk

I owned a 88 for ten years, had 170,000 miles when I traded it for a 93 and it never gave me problems. I drove from Germany to Spain at an average of 90 mph and it didn't miss a beat. Just gave it regular maintenence and the only thing I had to replace in those ten years was a starter and a clutch. Was still running strong when I sold it.

A rotary is very special and I am convinced through my 17 years of owning them, that they are virtually bullet-proof IF you do the regular maintenance. That means only SLIGHTLY more than a piston-engined car. The technical elegance of these cars can only be appreciated by those who own them and drive them. I largely gave up trying to convince "piston-heads" that my car was vastly superior, but they do pay attention once they drive one. ;)

I think that eventually an owner becomes very connected mechanically with the car, and ends up doing the maintenance themselves. On the occasion I am stumped (which has only happened a couple of times), I take it to a dealer that has a mechanic who did the RX-7 training in the 1980s and 1990s. These guys love to work on a '7 when one comes in... :)

I used to have an old '87 T-II with 186,000 miles on the original engine. There were no upgrades to the car. It was bone stock but it did get ragged on pretty hard. Replaced the tranny and clutch a few times but the engine just kept going. It did get regular maintanence.

that's pretty amazing rotarygod... were u the sole owner?

your dad is right. Rotary is crap.

Ok... Now please provide some supporting arguments since your opinion seems to differ a bit from just about every one's.

Nope. My best friend owned it before me. He just used it as a daily driver to work and back. We did autocross it alot though. Sold it to a kid who decided to see if it would win a fight against a storm drain. Nope. How long the engine lasts is directly proportionate to how you drive it. If we'd have modded that car and upped the boost and driven it hard, it wouldn't have lasted that long.

just watch the 16 minute video of a half-dead rotary at redline. I don't think any piston engine could do that. Also notice that the rx-8 holds some 49 international endurance records.

How to sell someone on a rotary car
 

1. Emphasize performance (power/weight) and handling. There aren't very many cars that can be had for what T2s are going for that handles nearly as well. This includes braking. Better handling = safer.

2. Emphasize ease of maintenance and availability of support (download the factory manuals and parts diagrams). Show websites like mazdatrix, racing beat, atkins, etc. that sell these parts by the metric ton. With no terribly special tools you can rebuild a rotary engine in your driveway in an afternoon. I think my first was about 24 hours limp in to drive away.

3. Older car = better insurance.

4. The rest of the car is normal car technology. Multi-point fuel injection, normal AC and steering, relatively normal emissions (cats and air pump), Macpherson strut suspension and trailing arms. Nothing except the engine internals is any different than any other car out there.

If he still won't bite, get him to drive a miata. Tell him the RX is fun like that but faster, and since it has a roof it's safer.

Eh... Right now I've sort of given up on my RX-7 dreams for now since the insurance for the Hachiroku is about 1/3rd of a TII... doh. Not to mention better gas mileage.

Now trying to actually FIND a Hachiroku (GTS! Not SR5!) fairly close and for a god deal in good condition...

1. Performance is not why my parents will help me buy a car... They don't think I need a fast car, nor do I think they'd think I need a two-seater. Even if better handling can make it easier to avoid accidents (but then again too much condifence about confidence has caused far more accidents than poor handling alone)...good brakes are a good thing, though.

2. I don't he'd beleive me if I told him it was easy. Heh...

3. $207 a month isn't what I'd qualify as good... as much as I'd like to have one. Hachiroku = $70 a month.

4. My family has still heard nothing but bad things about 7's (some from owners, some from people who have been in the car business for decades), although I'm sure some of those things were unfounded.

And he probably HAS driven a Miata before. In fact, I think he had a former girlfriend with an FB. He liked it (fast), but he thought it was a piece of junk.

Just tell your dad that a rotary has three power strokes per one revolution compared to that damn reciprocating engine that only has one power stroke per two revolutions (what a waste of energy)!!!

That should change his mind. J/K

mechanical oil injection.
aux port actuators that tend to stick if not used regularly.
prone to flooding.

nothing us rotards would bat an eye at. :)

It shouldn't be an issue of reliability ever since Mazda modernized their engines in 1974. No offense, but your dad is about 30 years behind the times.

To me, reliable means no valves to adjust—ever. Reliable also means that someone who isn't a specialist, like myself, can pull, tear down, clean, inspect, and rebuild with a few replacement parts such as apex seals or whatever for a couple hundred bucks, and then get many, many more thousands of miles out of the engine. No machining required. In other words, I can rely on myself to be able to reliably perform the R&R process without requiring a hot tank, glass bead machine, line honing machine, etc. I also get peace of mind knowing that there is no way that a con rod can break, a valve can fall onto a piston, a timing chain, gear or belt can break or skip a tooth, and all major components such as alternator, water pump etc are all up within easy reach; if a component does fail, swaping it is not back breaking labor.

The only special or rotary-only tools I have are a 2 1/8" impact socket and uh... a flywheel locker I got from Mazdatrix, and the flywheel locker itself is not even necessary. The impact socket is just a standard socket like what you'd find at any decent hardware store (it's not built specifically for a rotary). I can't think of anything else at the moment. A rotary requires less tools.

A rotary is about as difficult to rebuild as a carb. Without getting into all the what ifs, can deciding on freshening-up of a rotary every 100k be compared equally to rebuilding a boinger at the same intervals? Some ignorant people would think that a rotary must be a bad design because an engine rebuild always requires tons of money and is not usually required on boingers at only 100k. I guess to the masses, it's the end-all of an era to have the engine, the most important part of any car, rebuilt. Oh puh-lease! Most of those people have had brake jobs performed on their cars. Are brakes a bad design since they tend to wear from normal use? What about drum vs disk brakes? What about mufflers and radiators?

Yeah, I don't buy the argument that rotaries are less reliable than piston engines when they are so different mechanically, yet are compared the same. Most Americans tend to run their cars into the ground. It's not good for any engine to miss service intervals. Just because a piston engine can often live after overheating or running out of oil does mean I need to be impressed about it. Well, it did impress me when I was like 10 or something.

Well, my stance on this issue is that since rotaries are not difficult to rebuild, do not require any special tools (you can build a flywheel locker and the nut can be loosened with a chisel if necessary), and can be handled (the rear plate is the heaviest part) by anybody whom can tie their own shoes, feed themselves, and turn a wrench (well, most of the time, heh), anybody can rebuild a rotary. The dreaded R word should not be feared by us as it often is to boinger folk. Or maybe I'm just weird because I'm more mechanically inclined than most? Nah, I still don't like doing brake jobs because I find them tedious (I'd honestly rather do an engine rebuild than a brake job, probably because I haven't done enough brake jobs to have acquired a taste for them yet). :)

Have your parents buy you a Honda Civic Hatch from the mid 90s. Then save up your own money, and buy a TII. You'll get good gas milage, and you won't have your parents telling you what you can buy, and what you can't.

[rant]
P.S. I hate reading this type of thing. I've got friends that were getting new cars before they went away to college. They could have been cool, and gotten the STi that they wanted, but instead they were pussies, and went with Saabs or whatever, because their parents thought they were safer. Now, they're stuck with a car they never wanted, all because they were too lazy/afraid to strike out and do their own thing. If you've got any sense of responsibility, who gives a fuck what your dad thinks about servicing the car; you're going to be the one having to support it.
[/rant]

Just my two cents.

your dads off his rocker
 

iv had my 7 for bout 1 yr now an i go all over va in it its a 90 with a 13b i would not give it up for any thing i say piss on other cars 7s are here to stay o i only gave 1200$ for it an had not one thing wrong with it at all i love me 7

rx-7s rock
 

You might also tell your dad that if you like your car youll be much more likely to take better care of it and be more interested in maintaining it yourself. As far as reliability, I know a guy in Austin that has 240k+ on an 87! All he's done to it is ROUTINE maintenance. And I gaurantee youll like your rx a hell of a lot better than any honda including the supra or the trueno.
P.s. insurance shouldn't be that high I'd look around more mine isn't that high and I've lost my license twice(you think I'd learn)!

Have your uneducated father read this:

http://rotarynews.com/?q=node/view/463


Hows that for rotary reliability. :D

some people are just not open minded, my aunt and uncle are nissan/toyota worshippers. Its a religion to them and i can't convince them otherwise. An oil gush from a nissan is nothing, but a small leak from the oil cooler line of an rx7 is OH MY GOD!! true story. my mom however didn't care. She was like "its gonna break, its too old"
I said, "no its not, no it isn't"
"ok" problem solved.

ideas:

look for pictures of crashed cars of other cars and say you couldn't find an rx7 crash because there that safe!

go get the cash from them buy one yourself and put a honda rx7 badge on there And a certified used toyota sticker

tell them you found one with a piston motor conversion. when he notices it will be too late.

NO!!!

I will never drive a Civic. Ever.

My compromises are either a 240SX or a Hachiroku. No more, no less.

Right now I'm not worried about the rotary's reliability... mainly the price of insurance, and other problems that plague the RX-7.

$207 a month (if Progressive's online quote is right) for insurance is just a bit much, unless I get a job that pays a good amount while I'm at school.

In two or three years, I would have spent more on insurance than on the car itself.

And the mileage... wouldn't be as bad if they didn't run off of premium. But that's still not the big problem.

Also, S5 TII's seem just too damn hard to find (but then again, so are Corolla GT-S's). Although I could probably buy an S4 with a blown engine on the cheap (although I'd have to ship it since they're impossible to find where I live, and shipping a non-running car is expensive), put a Kouki J-spec Turbo engine in it, switch out the tail lights and steering wheel, bang, instant S5. :P


Right now I'm frustrated because I'm not making any money, and can't buy a car myself since I'm in Japan, so I have to wait till next summer.

I want to drive, dammit. It's been two months since I've held a real steering wheel or a real shift knob. Although arcade games help a little :D

Just get a N/A, they're almost as quick as a Celica GT-S and smoke a 240SX (at least my S5 does) and that's BS about all the reliabilty stuff, but I think the other forum members properly extinquished that flame of doubt. As for insurance, I pay $60/mo for my '91 N/A and I'm only 22.

Dude..there are so many FCs in Alabama..just in Huntsville alone!

Well, I live in Baldwin County (the opposite side of the state), and I've never seen one for sale (although I DID see a Turbo Supra for sale... the 80's model).

And if a guy who goes to car auctions several times a week in Mobile hasn't seen one in years, I really wonder.

I did have a guy tell me that the best place to look for cars for sale is to ask street racers... hahaha...

But then again, he also claimed there was a guy selling two running NA FC's for $50 each simply because he got a big truck and wasn't interested in them any more.

Your local car salesman is there to sell you what he has in stock. If he doesn’t have it, he will always say there is something wrong with what you’re looking for. For example; go to a BMW lot and tell them you’re looking for a Mercedes. You’ll hear every reason under the sun why a Benz is crap and the BMW heaps they have in stock are much better.

I’ve put 425,000+ RELIABLE miles on an 89 NA. Is a Toyota/Nissan/Honda reliable? Sure. However that doesn’t mean a rotary is not. At this point, the lack of reliability is due to whatever you’re looking for being 15 years old and having been massaged by every hack in North America. But here’s the catch – 15 year old piston engine cars have the same problem. Go grab an 87 Mitsu Starion. See if you can put another 100K trouble free miles on that.

He's not just a car salesman, he's a personal friend of my dad's, which is why he asked him about it.

I'm looking into the FC again, $200 a month insurance or not... hehe.

I'm looking at one 300 miles away that I had ignored before since it's heavily modified (nothing a little boost lowering can't "fix"...) for $6000 (not like I'd be willing to pay that much, but I figure maybe $5000...) It's an 88 TII but it has an S5 engine, interior, and headlights.

I sorta wonder what kind of gas mileage a 285 RWHP FC has... ehehehe...

Just get liability coverage. I'm 21 with a pretty shady driving record, and I only pay $85 a month, I was paying $119 a month before I hit 21. When the speeding tickect comes off my record (55 in a 45), It will only cost me $63 a month for liability insurance. I had to work my arse off to get my RX-7's...my dad also thought rotaries were shit buckets.

He still isn't really into the car, and he doesn't understand why I'd rather mess with an older car than just have a nice new car given to me. (00 z24 cavalier...la de da) I appreciate that my parents provided me with an automobile, it just was not the car I wanted. I also like to work on them, its a learning experience for me, and it keeps me out of trouble. However, once he started working on it with me, he started to like some of the simplicity of working on it. Most things are easily accessible and easy to work on with a FC. I chose the FC because I found it a car that was facisnating to me, one that I had previous experience with, and because I found it a lot more simple to tinker with than my cavalier ever was.

I don't really know what else to tell you, I would just save and try to get one on my own. You will appreciate it more in the long run, and you will also be less willing to take risks with it since it will be all your loss when you biff and destroy it.

Jeez, I am 20 have an 85 gs, it has 165000 miles on it, pulls strong, gets 20 mpg +/-, and I only pay $45 a month insurance. I figure I will give it a rebuild before the 200xxx point, but that is damn good for a 20 yo car. I just had it at the track, (only 1/8 mile) but still ran a 10.2 ar 70mph. I showed up a lot of cars, seeing as how it is a N/A.

I'm in the same position as Valkyrie. I live in Oklahoma which is possibly the most barren place to look for a decent deal on an FC and I finally found one that I have a chance to get. But my dad, now realizing that i'm extremely close to getting one has just stated that he's not helping me out at all. Thank god my mom supports my decision to get an FC. I mean Jesus christ I've been debating to myself wether or not to get one for months until I found this board and the vast knowledge available and immediately made up my mind about 2 months ago.

What pisses me off is that he doesn't support the one major decision I've ever made on my own, I've always been like "sure", "I guess", all my life, never really making up my mind on anything and now I am 100% trying to do something and hes against me! What surprises me is his reasons for not wanting me to get the car are the same exact ones Valkyrie's father's are. He even told me that I should get something thats the easiest to work on and he told me about his first car wich was a '60 somthing Chevy and that he could work on almost anything on it, I tried telling him how simple the rotary is but he wouldn't listen.

hachiroku and FC? Sounds like inital D. Oh wait, i'm takahashi Keisuke. hahahaha.

seriously i am.

Gee, where did you get an idea like that? It's not like I would base what car I want on a cartoon show.

:D

(Hachiroku da to?????)

Oh, and I think I decided that I'll probably just get a Corolla GT-S, for practicality reasons, and due to the fact that I'm a fan of the 86 as well as the FC. (And partially since I found one for $2500 online, whether or not it'll be for sale when I can actually buy a car is another story)

It doesn't really matter if I cant' smoke stupid Honda drivers and ricers on the freeway, since drag racing bores me anyway. As much as I'd like to.

Some people are quick to discount what they don't understand. Especially in that part of America, from what I'm told. Show him the "renesis module" then he will understand why rotary engines are good.

Link:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...6&page=3&pp=15

The AE86 is also a good chassis, go ahead and get the SR5 model, having less power will force you to learn to drive well. I used to own one, it was the epitome of economical and reliable yet still fun to drive. Get a plain-jane RWD Corolla and someday you can buy a more powerful car when you can afford it.

-s-