im looking at running a bit more rich to be on the safe side. i see that there is a map for midpipe, DP, CB, intake, ported motor and i have everything except the ported motor. would this be just too pig rich or would this be just fine? i dont want to run lean at all. i know i need to hit a dyno but it wont be for atleast 2-3 months.
kris

 

You can run anything you want, but what outcome will it have?

Ported map on non-port should do two things. Run richer than than needed at higher boost, might be OK at lower boost. More ignition retard than needed.

All very safe, but with a loss in HP.

But the real question is how good/safe is this map you are getting and where it is from. If it has been completely tested, then no problem.

 

By the way, Houston Map set 2( I think it is the 4th on the forum) has been on my friends car unchanged since he got it back in late 2001. He also runs a 50hp shot of NOS with this timing. He has not had any problems. The fuel is not that rich since his nitrous system adds its own extra fuel. The only problem with it is that the timing is even more retarded on the high end than the mod base set. It is based on the stock base set.

Houston Set 1 was my original from Ray at Shane Racing. The timing is the mod base set.

So both are for ported engines, but there is more difference at the low end(below about 4000 rpm).

The mod set has more low end advance than the stock set but less high end advance. Houston 2 has stock low end advance. By the way, Houston set two HAS NOT EVEN HAD THE NEGATIVE SPLIT FIXED.

 

You can get a little better view of the maps here: http://pb.kenjim.com/pfc/

Yes, you have to manually edit the values with the Commander for INJ, IGL, and IGT.

FWIW, I have a similar setup to your's and I'm using the Tim Benton maps with no problems yet. You may want to take Chuck's advice though, as he's pretty highly respected round these parts.

-Scott

 

I feel your concern about having a proper map. The stock PFC maps are likely ok but be careful as stock PFC maps and tuned maps can have you running AFRs in the 12's at WOT. While this may be ok for many stock ported motors, it can easily turn fatal if conditions degrade ... fuel quality/delivery, temps, etc, etc, etc.

I would never advise to use the factory type O2 sensor for tuning, but it can be used along with knock sensor, egt, etc. to get an idea of how the car is tuned. I recall my O2 reading sensor output being very non-linear and worthless for fine tuning, here's a summary of it compared to the wideband, please take this as a snapshot example of my sensor only and not a tuning guide for your car:

0.94 to 0.95V - W/B AFR of 10.2 to 10.6
0.92 to 0.93V - W/B AFR of 10.1 to 11.6
0.90 to 0.91V - W/B AFR of 10.2 to 12.5

I have heard of people tuning to a 0.87V !!!!! On my car that's equivalent to an AFR in the high 12's low 13's!

All part of the facination/frustration & love/hate associated with the rotary roulette wheel.

 

I thought it was completely safe to tune with PFC, Datalogit and a good knock sensor. Am I mistaken ?
Thing is there's no tuner with WB O2 around... So instead of getting one myself, I'd rather get J&S knock sensor and do it myself, knowing I can't mess it up.

 

I was recently asked about MOD SET 3(Spyfish).

After comparing it to other maps, this is what was found.
IGL is the same as the stock base set except for about 4 cells where one has a definite transcription error.

SHOULD not be used for a ported motor unless very mild port and lower boost.

 

hey, chuck are there any websites with info on the proper way to tune ignition on a ported motor? i dont want to copy a map and be happy, i want to know why i copied it. . . besides, these maps might be grenades in the making. im sure everybody feels that way in some sort.

paul

 

No easy method. It is trial and error by monitoring AFRs, knock level, and power shown on the dyno. I started with the mod set fuel and timing. Adjusted fuel first for my target AFRs. At the same time was monitoring knock.

Then I ran a dyno at the original timing, then +2, and then +4. Again monitoring knock level. I analyzed the torque curve to see where adding timing was increasing it the most. If an area was surrounded by more torque, meaning it was a slump area, I added 2 more degrees there and dynoed again to see the results.

I did not do this all the way until high knock was found. I stopped because power was not changing that much for more advance. this was done in cool weather. Then it turned cold. With the cold, I started getting high knock levels in part of the rpm band. In that area only, I took out 2 degrees.

So I have a very modded almost stock port engine with non-seq stock turbos running hotter advance than the stock base set up to about P17 and colder to P20.

 

thats some awesome information!!! thats the type of stuff ive been looking for. someone mentioned that you have to retard the ignition on a ported motor. i was wondering if that was true or not. they said that you want to retard timing in order to get full benefits of all the air/fuel charge. i always thought that advancing the timing was the best (to a safe limit of course).

ill be dyno-tuning on a mustang dyno more than likely. . . unless i can get a time at the local dynojet. both have wideband capabilities. i like the guys at the mustang dyno shop. . . they are a mustang shop. haha. anyways, ill definately be looking at the knock levels. what would you consider high. . . or should i do the accepted method and just look for a difference in what its reading? i know that most people are gathering different readings on their powerfc's, so thats why i ask. ill be running an egt gauge as well when i do the tuning. are there any certain temps to look for on that?

thanks a million, chuck!!!!

paul

btw. . . its great to see you back on the boards again. . .

 

The reason the ignition is retarded for a ported engne is the same as why you do it for running higher boost.
Both increase the amount of air and fuel(hopefully) that is taken/forced into the combustion chamber. This results in a more powerful combustion mixture that will build higher gas pressures which of course means more power.

Knock levels are slighty ambiguous. I think the manual lists 40 as a safe max. I use 20. My crazy car will get into the 100s with normal driving due to drive train noises. When doing tuning, I only look at the knock after throttle is applied and up to either gear change or reduced throttle. This is the range of "steady state" acceleration.

 

this thread is the most complete thread for all the ported motor tuning question....

thanks everyone... somehow i'm enlightened to get this piece of information...

and.. sorry for digging a very old thread. :P