Freakin Finally! The Eaton's in the mail and I will get a rebuilt M-90 blower in great condition on the 27th...provided UPS does'nt do something stupid, like drop it.
My car;
85 GS (red, so it's a hair faster)
Stock engine w/ 60K
No smog ****,
Yaw carb with accelerator pump mod and mechanical secondaries;
RB long header w/ exhaust dump at rear (before muffler),
SE diffy.

I just closed a deal where I'm getting a lathe and milling machine - both like brand new - for 2Gs.(Afreakin steal!)
I'm going to design and mill from aluminum stock the necessary manifold and carb adapter to make the blower work, as well as all linkages, pulleys, idler, and mounting hardware.
I'll use the stock OMP, with hardlines going to the manifold after the blower.
I will probably use the Yaw carby at first, while I look into other options, including "re-fabbing" a Holley to my liking. (I have a few ideas...)

I'll be running an air-oil cooler, and two ducts; one surrounding the blower, and one surrounding the header. The ducts will take in fresh air from the dam, and lead to the ground under the car, their profile area will be greater at the rear to help facilitate a vacuum action to carry away heat. A seperate duct will feed the carb. I'll install an intercooler later, but only if needed.

The Eaton is a self contained unit (no oil lines), built to last for 100K miles; however, I don't know at what RPM they are gaurenteeing that! They have a max RPM of 12 or 14K, but I will be running nowheres near that, as the M-90 is from a Pontiac 3.8 liter.
The blower is a 3 lobbed, helical design specifically engineered for non-pulsating, quite operation.

So...
I welcome everyone to comment, advise, ect, me on my project. I've studied several times over the Camden site, and at one point, was even going to get one. But the opportunity to buy these beautiful tools presented itself, and I simply could'nt pass it up. The cost of the milling machine, lathe, and Eaton (a far superior blower unit) ended up costing as much as the Camden kit anyway. I look forward to fabbing my own ****...I'm almost always much happier with the end result as compared to buying something. (Not that I'm a wizard, and can do it better; just that I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment.)

I would like to hear what kinds of boost #s I could expect to stuff into my stock 12A as well as what sort of power those #s will yeild; what I need to do to insure I don't break my engine, what I need to set my timing at, fuel I should run; do I need more oil injected?...and any other pitfalls you can all think of.

Thanks greatly.

 

Im no tech guru, but seems like you gonna have a lot to do. I will be very happy hearing about the finished product!

Good luck and merry x mas!

 

So how many hp are you planning on pushing with the new toy? By the way its been awhile. Nice seeing (or readig you around.)

CJ (Peripheral)

 

Your talking OEM quality for the Eaton. you have more a chance killing the ecu than the SC .


Will the Yaw/Nikki flow enough? (done the fuel calculations etc)

 

MIKE-P-28,
...Lotz of fab work, but I'm looking forward to it. I'm a bit of a problem solver, and one of those "inventor-wanna-be"s, so I feel confident I'll make a good go of it.

CJ,
How the hell are ya?! ...Don't know how much HP- or even how much boost, for that matter. I will be thrilled with the % increase that I most frequently read, which is 40%. I have my Yaw carb dialed in "deliciously", and I suspect I'm getting a good hearty 150 HP. But even going conservatively and saying I get 140 HP, and adding 40% to that, I end up with 196 HP. I would love to chase after 225 (or even higher - I dunno!), but will be plenty happy with cresting 200. I simply don't know what to expect. I'll stuff as much boost as I can in there; so long as I don't have to always worry about crapping out a seal.

FB + AWDDSM,
I'm tickled pink about the Eaton. As far as SCs go, I imagine it HAS to be doggone good to be an OEM part. And there's no external oil lines to fidgit with, like the Camden. (One of the things I really found unappealing about that kit.)
And the Eaton is a quality engineered piece, as well. The Camden just has straight two lobed rotors, while the Eaton has three lobbed helical ones.
I can't wait for it to come in the mail. I feel like a kid on Christmas...Hey...It IS Christmas!!:p

As far as the Yaw flowing enough, well I've done all sorts of math, but I get different maximum boost #s for each way I try to figure it all out. The Yaw flows 415-420 CFM. I tried crunching #s with the 12A displacement, Yaw Max CFM, 88.8% VE (Found on Yaws dyno sheet)...I just dunno what the hell I'm doing!
I hate to think I would have to shelf the Yaw. It took forever to get to me, and forever to dial it in, and now it's just so damn silky smooth-bitch fast!
Think I'll experiment with pulley sizes (I'll be making all my own anyway), and just run the highest boost I can before maxing out the carb till I get bored with it, I suppose. But I doubt it'll be super high.


These are all the questions I need help with. Otherwise, I'm just going into this project based on things I've read about totally different applications.
Thanks, guys.

 

Hey Sterling, sounds like a fun project but be prepared for a few headaches.

Rootes style blowers are pretty inefficient when compared to centrifugal compressors meaning they produce more heat for a given amount of boost. An intercooler would be a really good idea especially if you plan to run relatively high boost pressure. This means you'd have to run a blow-through style system.

Also, make sure you pay carefull attention (as I'm sure you will) to things such as bracket strength and flex and pulley alignment.

And one last thing, try to find some information on drive-belt loss. Any drive-belt is only capable of a certain amount of load before starting to slip which is something to consider when machining a smaller pulley to wind up the boost.

 

I didn't think it was possible to change just the pulley on those blowers. I think you had to change the whole front of it. I may be wrong (I think I'm thinking of the one on the Lightning).

According to my Oct. '91 Automobile magazine, the Bonneville SSEi with that blower produces 8 psi boost (Don't know if you knew it already or not).

 

Belt slippage...Had'nt put too much thought into that. As far as pulley diameters, I'm more inclined to enlarge the E-shaft pulley than to make smaller the blower pulley in order to achive a higher ratio. I would think that more surface area (done that way) would be a good thing.

Felix, the Eaton may have produced 8 psi on the Bonneville, but I'm inclined to believe that that is relivant to the cid of the 350 onto which it was attached, No? I.E., the GM 3800 engine with a redline of (whatever...what- maybe 5.5K?) produced 8 psi, and ewiith that particular pulley. Does'nt seem to me to mean that the SC was maxed out (ever) at its 12-14K limit. (I doubt they would've designed it all so that the SC was really working superhard)
So my point is that I believe (through my sense of logic...and this may be an area I need light cast upon me in order to unshadow my ignorance...) that if you ran the Eaton wiith the same pulley ratios that were on the Bonneville, you'ld probably blow up the stock 12A with well over 40 psi of boost! (The logic...no losses included, simply being; 350 cid divided by 70 cid yeilds that the 350 is 5 times larger, and therfore require 5 times the flow to achieve 8 psi. In doing simple linear math, I do realize there is compressed air and hot air loss in psi [or gain], but I don't know fully how that all enters into it.) Someone please tell me if I'm way off in my thinking, here.

You're all being a tremendous help.

 

Where are you getting 350 cid? A 3800 is a 231 cid engine

 

...Did'nt know that! For some reason I thought it was a 350. 3.5 liter...oh; duh!
Ok, then by my "wonder-math", it would be stuffing at least 24 psi?

Anyway, still I'm gettin' no numbers, here!!!
What's the max I can boost? Don't worry about the cooling aspect. I'm gonna have gauges hooked to every-*******-thing; so what I'll do is start with a low boost, and learn; then keep working my way up to whatever y'all decide is the max.
...Just wanna know my full potential with a stocker 12A.

 

I wish I knew the volume that turbos put out at a certain boost. It'd be easier to compare. FWIW, I think the Camden supercharger kit on the FC run ~9 psi.

 

I'm jealous of the machine equipment. I've had a lathe for several years... still waiting on a mill. Maybe this year...
Have fun making chips!

Kerry

 

I have a tiny Sherline lathe with all sorts of accesories, icluding a rotary table. I can horizontally mill very small things on it, but not much in steel because of flex (It's just a bitty lil thing - 17" bed).
I also have a small Southbend lathe at the shop where I work, but it's not mine.
The milling machine is very exciting to me. I could make my own carburetor on a machine like that, provided I knew what I was doing.

...and how can ya not like everything about machining aluminum?! "It's like butta!"
Are you familiar with the company name 'Arboga-Maskiner'?. It's Swedish, and I think they were bought by someone else, but I had never heard of it before. Can't seem to find any info on the web as to how much this machine is worth.

Felix, I'll have to re-visit the Camden site, but I think they sell a variety of pulleys for different boost #s. Up to 14, I think.

 

sounds like you've got a cool project in process, sterling! i know nothing of boost, turbo, sc. or otherwise.... but i do have a question. you said you have a stock 12a? how much is the stock porting going to hold you back? i'm sure it's not going to have that fantastic of a flow... probably wasn't designed for it. i'm not even going to try and rain on your parade.... maybe just suggest a little (big) port job and get that sucker flowing! c'mon... i wanna see what you can do! and keep us posted with all the glories of success (and the curses of setbacks lol) of your progress.

 

I've got a couple of spare engines. I can port one of them as my next project, and after I blow this one up, I'll swap the ported one in and slap on my 'already figured out-by-then' Eaton set-up.

 

Merry freakin Christmas, evrybody!!!

Looks like I'm gonna try a blow-thru set-up. This way I can put the Eaton where the AC was, and use an intercooler, as well.
Thoughts?
I would like to do it with the Yaw carb. Think that'll work?

 

*Gamble's brother perusing the boards, here...*

You would be much better off using the Eaton in a blow-thru configuration. From what I have found, the Eaton is not set up to pass fuel through itself, and therefore you could run into some problems that the OEM's don't have to mess with - thus possibly raining on your dependability parade. It would also be extremely wise to run as much intercooling as you can! From what I have found out (and I admit, I am still a rotary newbie) the rotary hates heat and detonation. The cooler you can get the intake charge, the better off you'll be, no matter what. A big, efficient FMIC would probably keep your 12A from taking a nasty poo-poo on ya.

Check out blow-thru lists on yahoo groups, they are cool guys and can most likely help you in your quest. Mike Sitar, internet blow-thru wiz-kid, has a LOT of experience with Eatons...just ask around about his twin Eaton supercharged 351W Thunderbird, which runs low 10's in the 1/4 last I heard!

GOod luck, the Eaton kicks ***! I want to do my own blow-thru Eaton project someday, but on a Ford 300cid straight 6. Can you say torque?

 

I hear all of you people talking about lathe's and metal working, just what can I do with tools like these and where can I learn more about them?
Thanks,
Jesse

 

Never took shop class in school? Metal lathe is just about the same as a wood lathe.

Only difference between wood and metal work is you can bend metal. You can't bend wood.

And unlike sawdust.. swarf CAN hurt you

 

Also keep in mind that alot of blow through setups (at least for rotaries) end up with leaky carbs. Think about it, these carbs aren't designed to handle being pressurized, especially when the PSI gets into double digits. I would probably lean towards a draw through (provided the SC will work that way). Good luck with the project!

 

Ah, come on! As long as you're going to that much work, inject it downstream of the blower and forget about a carb.

Jesse, look for a magazine called "Home Shop Machinist" and another called "Machinist's Workshop" They'll give you some good insight as to what's possible. WARNING! "Machining takes on a life of it's own."

Kerry

 

Thanks for all the interest and replies, everybody!
My Eaton came today. It's HUGE!!! It's in really great shape, and I'm very pleased.
It'll be some time before I actually get the milling machine and lathe.
Meanwhile, I'm learning more and more about blow-thru systems.
I've seen Mike Sitars site. But I need to be pointed to a site that gives detailed tech explainations of "why, this" and "why, that...".

I never did have any illusions that I could simply "slap this puppy on there, n' go". But I do prefer to keep the spending at a minimum. What I mean by that, is that I prefer not to go fulie. And I would like to use my Yaw; but I would buy another carb if I had to.
What I will spend big bucks on is high quality temp and boost sensors and gauges....But!- I have this "thing"...I like things to match. Can't explain it; won't even try. But I would love to have the necessary gauges look the same, by the same company, and have LED readouts.
Got any recomendations? (I want really good ones)

I prefer the analogue type gauges, but I've been told by someone I trust very much, that the LED readout gauges are much faster.

I know that I want temp for the intake manifold, and boost (obviously). But is there anything I'm missing?

 

EGT and A/F ratio

 

"EGT" = Exhaust Gas Temperature? (my guess; please forgive my ignorance!)
These "Turbo blow-thru" groups/sites...how do I get to them? (I'm full of inspiration, drive, and ideas; but lacking in basic computer skills!)

A guy by the name of "Kamal" on the Mazspeed board is giving me a free Turbo II IC. (I thought that was damn nice of him!)

I've got a few bucks, and the wife and I will be shopping for digicam soon. I think like I'll document this project with both photos as well as costs in order to demonstrate (hopefully) that anyone can do this on a budget.

 

Yeah. Thats a better indication of how rich/lean your engine is running than an A/F gauge. The higher your EGT, the leaner you are running (which is a bad thing). Lean mixture= detonation= blown engine