The Official N/A Drifting Thread
 

Ok, before you flame me, this isn't another "can my n/a fc drift" thread. I have already read through those. Drifting doesn't have a set definition other then controlled oversteer. For the purpose of this thread, the drifting discussed will be based on competitive drifting at a local track.

When I went to watch a local drift competition, I saw an N/A fc trying to drift...I say trying because he was understeering more then over steering. From what I observed , he was trying to power over...very hard to do in an underpowered (lets face it, an n/a fc is underpowered) car. Whenever he would do this, his front wheels would lock up, and the back wheels would grip the road. Drifting an underpowered car is possible, look at the hachi roku (ae86), but thats a completely different animal. The FC is unique because of its low polar movement. This was showed when a tii tore up the track with flawless transitions through drifts (all one fluid drift). The n/a fc almost never lost traction to the rear tires. It looked like a stock base model, with stock height. It got really bad wobble, and all of the weight was put to one corner of the car.

At first, this discouraged me from bringing my GTU to the next competition. Then it made me start thinking. The stock suspension and tires where causing him to fail. The suspension should be stiffer to prevent "wobble", and the front tires should be low profile and wider to prevent understeer. The second factor in the n/a's inability to drift seemed to be the drivers technique. I think that instead of trying to power over, it would be wiser to pull the e-break, and after the traction is broken, use the throttle to maintain the slide. The throttle will only be able to control the drifts to a certain extent, the extent of the power availible. Like I said, the car was quiet, so I couldn't hear the RPM's that he was drifting at. Since the FC has all of the power at the top of the RPM range, I think it would be wisest to keep your RPM's high. (Does the stock FC have a rev limiter? I think it would be wise to get one if not, to give the driver the ability to "bounce off" it in second gear to maintain the high rpm's without damaging the engine.). Like it was said a numerous amount of times, (beefy n/a thread) an fc can only have so many things done to it, with out sacrificing drivability. Porting and polishing is the number one way to get more power out of an fc, but some people don't have the resources to do that.

Before going to the next event, I will have to "prepare my car". It is a 1988 GTU, so I dont know if the suspension is adequate for drifting. I dont have the resources to port my engine so I will have to settle for a full exhaust, and maybe a custom built intake box. (the trottle body mods, and anything to do with modifying the fuel system seems to be pointless on an n/a).

I started this thread get other peoples opinions and hear their experiences with drifting an n/a fc. Lets get this thread rolling.

my 87 revvs out at 8,500rpm. the beeper goes on at 6500



they say that and rx7 need two fuel pumps for really hard corners, as the fuel pickup is only on one side of the tank. mine cuts out when i get too sideways...


some of my mods are in the description. strut bars help a shit load with strength .

Cool I have the answers you need, watch this video http://youtube.com/watch?v=-qXtvvUnjCo
This is me and my car earlier this year. I've been taking my NA to the track and started 3 years ago, but the 2nd year I only went to 2 events so I don't know if it really counts.

Anyway, the mods on my car are as follow: cut stock springs, KYB GR-2 shocks, stock air box with K&N replacement filter, gutted cat, and that's it. I have a racing seat to help me out a bit. From what I've heard from drivers Todd Ho, Henry Ahn, good friend Peter (Junpower on here), all of which are Bay Area guys and Todd's in formula D now and Henry is waiting lol. I guess the trick of the FC, to be blunt, for me is: go in faster than normal, let off the gas as I turn in, and jus floor it through the turn. Accel off is I think the way to drift this car. E-brake works for some I guess but I think it slows me down too much, braking drifts work well depending on the turn, and feint is another good way of doing it without losing too much speed. In the video I did a couple braking drifts and clutch kicks the first couple runs, but after warming up I just did accel off drifts the rest of the day. Hope that helps!

-Alex

P.S. RETed wtf is IBTL?

My 87 GXL does completely fine for these drifting competitions.
Autocross on the other hand it starts to lag a bit behind.

To be honest, I think it more of skill based. The RX-7 is very well balanced and it's got enough power in the rear to keep it sideways. The Suspension is no TIEN but you can still have a good time; it's not like EVERYONE is Takumi or anything...

Are you in 2nd or 3rd?

The car has no steering mods done to it?
Actually, I just looked at the vid, and I'm impressed.

It's hard to believe a non-turbo FC can actually drift like that.
Steering angle looks limited, but that just makes it harder to drift.
That's why I ask if your steering is stock?

Your suspension is holding you back.
The car wallows like a pig in mud.
The suspension is just too soft, and upgrade suspension should help you a lot in the future.

If you do run into Ho Master, tell that bitch I said WAASSSSAAbbbbbbbbiiiiii.
:)


-Ted

All i have to add is this. Install a Pinion Snubber (Bump Stop) above the nose of the differential. I just replaced my differential mount and added one. Now theres no room for the differential to torque upwards and break the mount EVER again :) i can actually break the car loose and have fun now ^_^. I haven't started drifting yet but my suspension mods are Tokico HPs (blue) with eibach springs and i like it ALOT.

Haha Micaheli it has paint....crazy loud paint! *see sig

RETed thank you! but you reminded me, I forgot to add that I did the Todd Ho thing and added washers in the steering rack lol. Oops sorry I forgot that little piece of info.

What washers did you use? Can you take pics of this setup?

I can't really give ya pictures cause it's hidden under the inner tie rod boot, but what you have to do is get some washers to place on the inner part of the tie rod. You can space it up to 1/4". I just got some generic washers from the local hardware store that fit over the tie rod. You slide em over the tie rod, the end that screws into the steering rack, get an alignment, and you're done. Best .30 cent mod I've ever done. Helps a lot but I still don't have 240 steering angle. I would like to get the real get for this one day. Super Now has an angle kit, and so does Mazdatrix and some other companies.

Hey a_drift, is that the Altamont raceway?

Here's a pic of the washers on the inner tie rod...:icon_tup:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...g?t=1188992714

Yup

wow....impressive a_drift

Great info guys! FYI Justin (boostinmys5) started drifting stock n/a, then did the tII swap. He also told me that you don't need undersway bars, stockers are okay. The best thing is coilovers or springs and shocks, an lsd, and some practice. Once you've got that going you can start working on adjusting camber and getting the dtss eliminators and a steering angle kit. Once that's done, it's up to you to drop in a turbo or stay na. Good luck, and again, good info guys!

Watch the drift bible its very helpful info.

It's all good baby! I drift an NA all day long, it slides just fine. My car's got stock everything, with DTSS. Just learn to drive better.

I think you could be right about a few things, but here's what I feel.

Don't worry about getting wider wheels for the front. That will probably just limit your steering anyways. Just get a good set of front tires that will stick better if you can't make it work w the stuff you have on right now.

Get a diff! The stock NA diff isn't good for drifting. AngryEarl tried to drift my car + couldn't because of the open diff. It's a bitch when one tire keeps regaining traction all the time.

Get some dtss eliminators. One reason why you don't see many FC's in D1GP or other drift events is because of the rear suspension not being solid (like the 240's) The more solid you have the rear, the easier it will be to break it loose.

Get some coilovers. I just spent 811 on ebay to get some used teins. That's nowhere near the price brand new. They'll last me probably 2 years or so (depending on how they were driven in the first place) + then I can always get them rebuild.

You don't really NEED more power... But it helps a bit.


Now, these are just suggestions. I'm not saying that a bone stock FC can't drift without practice. But I think these things will help you out quite a bit.

I run 17x9 front and 17x10 rear.

Stock S4 LSD is just fine for dori. Just let that bitch cool down between runs! On a really hot day with crappy diff oil in it, it might overheat and go full open. And that sucks.

DTSS is FINE for drifting. A lot of people who say it's impossible have never tried it. I don't even feel it... I don't see how it's such a big problem.

Coilovers are nice.

More power is good, but no power is good for practice. Teaches you technique instead of pedal mashing ability. Rock the NA stock for a while, then build it a bit.

+1 for the last part man. That's probably the best advice out there. If you don't have to spend anything on mods then you can really afford the general maint/tires/body pieces for drifting.

I still honestly feel that 17" rims are too big. I run 16x8's all around. 245/45/16 w the coilovers + spacers up front. They weigh the same as the stock rims I have. Maybe an ounce or two heavier, but basically the same. There's too much rotational mass on 17" rims, esp for something that doesn't make much power to begin with.

just my $.02

My FC is fine for drifting. I can feel the DTSS but I'm also weird. Here is a really good idea though. Get like $30 and grab yourself a pair of some crappy rims that work and some junk used tyres to practice with... It's what I do

Drifting can be done in any car.
I even drifted my 1974 Buick Rivera 5800 GRVW!!
Drifting isn't decided by which car your driving,
It's done by the driver, but yes, more power will just give you a better edge.
Learning in an underpowered car will help you learn weight transfer and steering techniques faster then move on to power.

Camber plates on the front and sway bars will help the car understeer less during drifting and shocks and springs will give you better responce and faster reactions.
If your car is underpowered use H rated tires for less traction,that will let your tires spin with less TQ to the wheels.Gives you the effect of more power.Keep good tires up front.

laserkei said it: Drift Bible.. $16 and it goes through everything.. minimum mods for drifting, practice drills, techniques for drifting cars with under/major oversteer, low power cars, etc. you can even find the whole thing on google video it's blurry though. drifting's an art not something you can just go out and master with one pull of the e-brake. (keiichi would agree with JunpoweR: "you can drift ANY car")

cluch kick is the trick, i used to go to those events in monroe but i moved to cali to pursue formula D haha but yeh mayn props to you i started with a N/A FC just like you too!

I used to feint the hell out of it to upset and hammerfist the clutch to help.

My GTU was Bone STock in every way. It did just fine, you just have to work it.

Heres a video of my second third time ever drifting on a track. 225/50/16's on teh back were kind of tough on stock suspension and a dying clutch lol. But you get the idea.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=8


Since that video i put that car through probably 10 events or so over the last year. I learned so much it was incredible. I will try and dig up some better stuff.

Heres some pics from turner field, atl. (i live 45min north, nice and local), adn two from AMS 250 event (Bottom two, that was my first event ever, so much fun!)'

But yeah, drifting N/A rx7s just takes a lot of technique, and it helps to have a hefty pair of balls lol. And remember, lifting is for your LEFT foot!! Never lift the righ!! :lol:

I have a built t2 now. Should have some footage soon.

**Pics failed** I'll redo them later

Austin

It's not that hard to get an NA sideways... it IS hard to keep it from going waaay too sideways.

The first mods for a drift FC (bare minimum, assuming your suspension is in good condition): DTTS eliminator > steering wheel + spacer > full bucket seat.

Of course, you'll also probably find yourself running out of steering angle (and talent), so getting some spacers on the rods might help.

ahh i need to get my fc running... lol you guys have no idea how bad i wanna go sideways.... only thing is, i might be losing my license soon(fucking speeding traps) so i dono how much longer i have to drive.

but ill be learing some things soon...hehe(buddy is getting a bmw)

I have a NA Half-bridged individual throttle body and I have spent all most over a year getting my car running. So i can go side ways . Just a couple more weeks. So that i can get it tune then it straight to getting it sideways.

What's so good about TEIN?:Wconfused

theres nothing good about them TEIN are only good for show! get k-sport theyre much more affordable and performs well too! if you have the money then go with the kei-office you can never go wrong with the drift king!!! but seriously the guy with the GTU its not like monroe is a competition you should go out there do what you can do and you should decide from there what mods you need for your car! oh and I say screw the e-brake unless your hitting a really sharp hairspin turn and i know they dont have that in monroe lol

k-sport are made in China whereas TEIN have a warranty... hmm, hard choice.

I ended up doing a bit of drifting (semi-accidental, semi on purpose) at an autocross event today since it was raining a bit... man, drifting is so much different with a bucket seat!

I mean, it was freaking impossible to really drift properly at my first event, but now I can do it almost half-ok just by getting a new seat (and without a harness, too).

:ugh2:

So.. I thought TEIN Coilovers were pretty nice.. am I wrong?? :confused:

No, you're not... there are better products out there, but they apparently make really good products for the street, especially since they have the best service of all the brands, and the best presence in the states.

You can always get STANCE products, but only TEIN offers things like electronically adjustable dampers, if that's your thing.

What do you guys think about welding an open diff for drifting? I'm always on a budget. :)

I'm going with stance GR+ on my car.

For drifting, i wouldnt imagine that welding the diff would be bad, however, i'm not an expert on drifting by any means.

Yeah, it should actually work fine... the real question is how does a welded diff do on the street.

click click click.....something like that?

Tons of understeer? I know when I had a welded diff on my jeep, it wanted to push straight ahead even with the wheels turned in rain/snow. was really dangerous. but offroad, it kicked butt. :) So, if you want a rock crawling RX-7... I'd say go for it.

Lol, I was riding in the back of Alex Pfeiffer's 180SX between the pits and the track during Nopi drift event last week (dont ask), and every turn he made the whole rear end was going click click click. I figured that's what it was but didn't wanna sound stupid if I was wrong.

That sounds more like autolockers.. a ratcheting diff that auto locks in a straight line... soon as you drag a tire, it clicks.

welded is fine

I already put this on the race car tech section, but propably drifting isn't racing :)

Not only for N/A but what kind of suspension set-ups you have made for your FC's to make it a proper drifter? I had D1SL attended Nissan Silvia this season but one bastard bought it off me so now I'm building next weapon out of FC TII I already have.

I have done some 60-80 laps with that almost stock one (upgraded boost, HKS suspension and some strut tower bars) and couple of notices are front tires that clearly don't turn at all (maybe some 20-30 degrees less than my Silvia) and weight shifts are HUGE because of that ridiculous rear stabilizer.

So I'm planning to have thicker rear stabilizer and change every bushing to pillow joints (strictly race car so won't matter if it's HARD) and have some firmer coils on the back.

But the front axle is the big question mark here so I would really like to know if somebody have done some mods for the front linkages. I have pictures from couple of D1SL cars form Japan but problem is that they are for sale and I'm almost sure that Japanese strip all the good parts off before putting their race cars up for sale so those cars have stock lower arms on the front.

Plan is to make a new lower arm bringing front wheel out some 25-30mm and then have a modified steering gear to have more turn angle and to fix the ackerman steering. What else should I be looking at?

Actually Cusco also has same kind of function than TEIN EDFC on their Zero-2E suspension system. And if you look at Japanese drift or time attack scene you can't see anybody racing on the Tein products. Cusco and HKS are only well known "street brands" that you can see on the track, otherwise they are using higher level products like DG5, Zeal or Ohlins.

/\ The other thing I forgot to mention.

Kazama makes tie rods that help with the whole steering angle thing.

I still maintain that you don't need any mods to slide. Learn while the car is stock, then mod when you've outgrown the abilities of the car. Not the other way around.

I Gots A Gxl
 

:werd:
i learned how to drift a 93 caviler :lol: yeah its like 90hp and fwd
so i think an NA should be fine right?

Im just learning about FCs and from what ive read, suspension was the most important thing???

in order of importance i thought it was like

• suspension
• TII swap
• bucket seats/steering wheel

no?

1: you can't drift a FWD car, if the rear wheels are not powering your car, then its not drifting.

2: In order of importance
a)seat time
b)seat time
c)seat time

Ive been drifting my NA FC for about a year and a half now, minor suspension upgrades, minor NA bolt ons, nothing special. I've finally out grown the limitations of my current setup, so I'm doing a turbo swap and buying a full coilover setup, and doing a lot to the suspension. DTSS eliminators will be going on after the coilovers then a steering angle kit. After that I'll see how things go before I buy anything else.

more like

seat/wheel
suspension
LSD