Dtss intact?
 

well i was just wondering if anyone slides with the dtss still in their car? is there any sudden or unpredictable snap back? i am going to get the eliminator kit but i want to test out my new 7 before it comes in the mail. if its dangerour of course i will wait, but the rain has begun and i just cant help but want to slide just a little.

also how can i tell if my dtss is till working properly?

my FC still has it, and i never notice it. ive never driven an FC with them so idk how they feel. my rear control arms push in and out about an 1" due to slop.

run what you have, and upgrade later is the way i always went about it.

(edit: when i say "them" i mean the DTSS eliminators)

alright thanks, that was exactly what i needed, yeah the only fear i had about buying the rx7 was the dtss and the motor. but phewww one less thing to worry about

people always really make them out to seem worse than they really are... the motors arent built for what people "want" to do with them. once built right, they throw down. expensive, but everything is expensive.

RX7's drive better than 240's IMO. they're better feeling, and more responsive. just go out, and have fun. the only true downside to these cars in my eyes so far, are the diff setups. the mounts arent bad, but if you break a diff, your subframe has to basically come out (atleast one side, if you're pro at it) and its always a headache....

if you need help, just ask. everyone in this section is pretty cool.

DTSS was not intended to be used in racing application. It is sort of a compromise from Mazda to compensate for the semi-trailing arm suspension. They allow the loaded tire to toe in slightly under harder driving. Being that most race cars are aligned by a knowledgeable mechanic/tech, the variable is taken out of the equation, and the mech/tech sets up the alignment for the given track/conditions.

You probably won't notice a difference if you are just getting out there. Also, as buckey said, your stock subframe/diff/trailing arm mounts probably have enough slop in them, that the DTSS would be the least of your worries. Upgrade in time... when the time comes... you'll know what you have to change...

And have fun.

Also, here's a build up from years ago, and how I went about modifying my rear susp. set up...

http://www.ziptied.com/forums/index.php?topic=7676.0

that should be stickied!

yeah i just came from the whole 240 thing and my friend convinced me to get the car. so far i really like it. im going to slide it (if its ready) at upcoming events from fatlace and hopefully thunder hill if i can get a tow vehicle. thanks alot for the input, it really put me at ease. Btw buckey your build is pretty awsome, and your house has hella space to work, good luck in the upcoming season

so to take out my diff i need to remove the entire subframe?!?! thats whack cause my diff bushing are basicly non-existant =/

You don't need to remove the entire subframe to do it, but it is easier to wiggle it out if you loosen up the bolts and drop it down a little.

alright got it :nod:

yeah everytime i shift the change in power makes a horrible clunk, and when i mean horrible it seems like the entire subframe is about to rip from the car, its pretty scary.

i might try what davedge did, looks much easier to just swap the entire subframe with new bushings, while im at it might as well just do the dtss eliminators as well. ughh this projects guna be slowwwwww:blush:

I drove with DTSS for two years. I can't tell you what the difference was in any concrete terms, but I can tell you that my car with DTSS in tact was an impossible to drive piece of shit that I'd have to beat the fuck out of to get results from, while my other car with no DTSS felt fucking fantastic.

There were other variables involved, but I kinda think DTSS makes the car drive crappy. It can be done, but it's better without.

maybe thats seriously why my car is never consistent. i get so fucking frustrated and always think im screwing up when maybe i should just try this setup stuff out, and get a consistent car going.... hahaha

I've driven two really similarly set up FCs back to back, one for two years and one for one full season (before I changed to a turbo motor) and the car with DTSS eliminated made me feel so much more comfortable, and was so much easier to control. That's just my experience.

right not when i drive mountains, compared to the 240 it has a small shift in momentum when i switch directions. whenever the rear end does kick out, it feels very sketchy. most definatly i was much more confortable in the 240. but my friends 240 with HICAS was way more scary than driving the rx7

i drifted for a long time with my DTSS and it was noticable to me but i liked it. i put in the eliminators and it's a little better to me when i transition but i sacrificed some on my initiation. so it's a give and take in my opinion. i wouldn't worry about "needing" them to drift at all though.

cool thats exactly how i feel with the car. it feels like i need to get them before i do anything else to the car, but i guess i will take yours and buckeys advice. just upgrade the car as i go along.


thanks for imput from everyone, the drifting section on here is really chill

you never wanna have a stock DTSS bushing fail... (they will after some time) not pretty.

This is exactly why grip race drivers hate DTSS. Well, one of two reasons.

The first is the obvious symptom of the car changing the rear toe angle mid turn which requires the driver to change steering inputs which changes the rear toe which again requires steering inputs, just a viscous cycle of annoyance.

The 2nd is as mentioned above, put another way when a grip driver has ideal slip angle going at the limit for the fastest cornering the toe sets, then if grip is momentarilly lost the lateral load on that tire changes from the mostly static anglular friction slip angle to ALL kinetic friction of tire slide. This change in lateral load toes the tire out when you REALLY dont want it to, bang, snap oversteer and a potentially less recoverable slide. So not only does the DTSS mess with feedback during full grip slip angle but it also messes with feedback durring slide and slide recovery.

I have no idea how this information relates to drifting as i dont drift but ultimatly i would imagine a skilled drifter would also hate having the car change alignment settings mid corner....

^serious info being laid down right there^

drifting, DTSS will make it a little snappier but its possible to get used to it. DTSS eliminators will make the car more consistent and probably feel a little more predictable but feeling wise, it is a very small margin to measure really. you would just be more consistent. Just plan on getting the eliminators if you drift a lot and definitely if you are planning to do comp events.

Now get out there and learn the car.lol. remember that its not a 240, the 50/50 weight distribution requires a little more skill to drift well.

sorry, double post due to slow internet.lol

Ive been driving for a couple years and have never noticed a problem with dtss...

i go full throttle and full lock and transition fine without them.

then i hopped in my brothers car(with dtss eliminators) and it felt the same as before he installed them....

get them tho, for realz

well seems like i dont really need them from what most of you are say, i'm going to replace them when they go out,

so how exactly do i know when they are done?

cars ~20 years old, they probably could use replacing even if they haven't completely and utterly disintegrated yet. that goes for most of the other suspension bushings as well, check that shit out. You might be on factory stuff still depending on previous owner history. :nod:

Every DTSS bushing i have taken out to replace with eliminators (i have done 4 sets now) have been completely intact. I know because i have had to destroy them when removing them as the bolts were seized inside them. Thus even on MN roads they seem to hold up over 20 years. The rubber used seems to be pretty good and not get old and crack like rubber used everywhere else on the car.

my vert has dtss and I spin out alot haha
I have some eliminators, just been lazy to install

That was what I was basing my assumption on as I have never taken the DTSS bushings out of an FC. I have seen a lot of the other bushings though,lol. Good to know.

do you have shitty rear tires?
do you have spindles?
i remember you saying you have tierod spacers.

its not DTSS....

i havnt been drifting long or had an rx7 long i come from 240s but always loved rx7 so i said fuck it. i havnt driven without dtss yet. i do plan on getting it eliminated but with my expierience with it its a pain but possible but from what iv learned with the 240 is concentrate on diving and upgrade when you get good with what you have. parts dont make you a better driver. get used to it and learn to really FEEL what your car is doin then upgrade after you learn how to compensate for your cars short comings. then when you upgrade youll realise the real difference that your new part is making.

^ I keep telling people this all over this site it seems. The FC is a lot different chassis then the 240. 240's are drift-o-matics. they are easy to control COMPARED to an FC chassis. The major difference is that the FC is 50/50 weight dist where as the 240 is biased towards the front (53/47 or whatever it is). The FC is going to take a lot of getting used as it is a lot snappier and the rear suspension is very different in design then the 240.

stating that it's the DTSS causing you to spin when you haven't driven an FC without DTSS or FC's that long in general really isn't saying anything except that you need to get used to the car more. I won't lie, full stock NA is difficult to drift but it can be done consistantly, like any car. The DTSS isn't going to be a night and day change so it probably won't help too much. some people said they don't even know the difference so take that to heart. skill isn't gained overnight, keep at it. I don't mean to sound like a jerk either, just a lot of 240 guys converting complain about the same thing.lol. keep at it.

thats the exact thing i did with my 240, i built slowly and got parts as i got better, i know parts dont make a driver better, trust me im on the same boat. i hate when people talk parts all day. so far the rx7 is fun, grips way better than the 240 but sliding is still a bit iffy to me on this chassis. the only reason i asked about this particular part was that is raised a red flag. this is the only part when making a purchase decision, it almost made me turn away. to me this part could or could not cause a safety hazard and im deffinatly not trying to have it cause me to fall off a 50 foot cliff.

from the experiences of other owners i now see that it is nothing to be concerned about. i just wanted to be put at ease and when i searched i found nothing about dtss and drifting on the forum so i figured i might as well ask.

ya, thats a good way to go about it. just drift until you feel you need mods to go past the cars current limits. DTSS elims are only $50-60 so I guess it's good if you think that yours may fail and maybe they will help a little. try removing the rear sway bar when/if you have stiffer suspension, helps a lot I hear. I forget if you were NA or turbo but if you are NA, check to see if your 5th/6th ports are working. thats power after 3500 rpm and the car feels a lot different. my car doesn't have them working because I'm missing the tube from the catalytic to the system but I drove a friends FC with it working and man was drifting that a whole new feeling (a lot faster revs and throttle response when drifting). and use google search to search the site. type your search keywords followed by "site:rx7club.com". works way better.

ah yes that is a much better way to search. thanks.

i have a t2, so do the same procedures apply?

Turbos have 4 ports, open all the time.

oh looks like i got more hw to doo

YAY! just picked up my eliminators off craigslist, new, for a price i couldnt refuse, $ 30 bucks!

yep, only NA's have the 6 ports. at 3500 rpms it opens up the 5th/6th. t2's are 4 port engines and the ports are open 24/7. the throttle on these cars is a little twichy too because of the rev nature of the engine, especially apparent in the t2 I'm sure so you have to get use to that too. depending on where you have your revs at and how you operate the throttle, the boost coming on/off might be throwing you off (I don't know if you have experience in a boosted car before this). you're a step up from me though with your t2 power. I have an NA s4 (probably 125-130 rwhp at this point, maybe less because no 5th/6th ports working) and drifting this thing consistently is a nightmare. its all stock but gotta start somewhere. drifting this car is just aggravating, hoping to have coilovers by spring.