Mazda Canada OEM Oil Filters - Flawed?
09-27-04, 09:26 PM
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Mazda Canada OEM Oil Filters - Flawed?
Some of you may remember this Oil Filter Study:
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/
There has been argument in the past about how good an OEM filter is, who manufactures them for Mazda, etc.
I can't identify who manufactures them for us, but I can take a wild guess. I cut a used filter open after an oil change on my car, I was not impressed, this filter is almost exactly the same as any cheap fram filter that is widely available. The bonus is this one says Mazda and it costs more.
I believe this is the last Mazda OEM filter I will be using.
Since there was no data provided for anything Mazda made on the oil filter study, here are some pictures and information for your reference. Double up the pictures/information with the fram's bad review in the oil filter study.
Common sight for most people during oil change time, less the cut at the base.
Fram-like, paper ends that have been glued, poor seal at the rubber diaphragm at the bottom.
Component breakdown: Steel/Plastic pressure relief assembly, all paper filter includling paper ends (quality would be steel ends), Rubber anti-drainback diaphragm, case assembly.
Parts close-up links:
http://members.rogers.com/rx7/ofs/four.jpg
http://members.rogers.com/rx7/ofs/five.jpg
http://members.rogers.com/rx7/ofs/six.jpg
Plastic pressure relief reference picture available here:
http://members.rogers.com/rx7/ofs/seven.jpg
Diagrams summing up "how-it-works"
One of the issues here is the drainback draphragm is sealed against carboard ends, quality filters use steel ends so it seals properly and will not have any leak-back.
These are just my findings, take them as they are, compare sizes/components/construction to the oil filter study as linked above, you may change your mind about OEM filter use with Mazda Canada.
-Colin
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/
There has been argument in the past about how good an OEM filter is, who manufactures them for Mazda, etc.
I can't identify who manufactures them for us, but I can take a wild guess. I cut a used filter open after an oil change on my car, I was not impressed, this filter is almost exactly the same as any cheap fram filter that is widely available. The bonus is this one says Mazda and it costs more.
I believe this is the last Mazda OEM filter I will be using.
Since there was no data provided for anything Mazda made on the oil filter study, here are some pictures and information for your reference. Double up the pictures/information with the fram's bad review in the oil filter study.
Common sight for most people during oil change time, less the cut at the base.
Fram-like, paper ends that have been glued, poor seal at the rubber diaphragm at the bottom.
Component breakdown: Steel/Plastic pressure relief assembly, all paper filter includling paper ends (quality would be steel ends), Rubber anti-drainback diaphragm, case assembly.
Parts close-up links:
http://members.rogers.com/rx7/ofs/four.jpg
http://members.rogers.com/rx7/ofs/five.jpg
http://members.rogers.com/rx7/ofs/six.jpg
Plastic pressure relief reference picture available here:
http://members.rogers.com/rx7/ofs/seven.jpg
Diagrams summing up "how-it-works"
One of the issues here is the drainback draphragm is sealed against carboard ends, quality filters use steel ends so it seals properly and will not have any leak-back.
These are just my findings, take them as they are, compare sizes/components/construction to the oil filter study as linked above, you may change your mind about OEM filter use with Mazda Canada.
-Colin
09-27-04, 09:34 PM
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i could have told you this long ago, it's like batteries, only energizer and duracell make them, but the crappy or defective ones goto a generic place to be relabeled
09-27-04, 09:36 PM
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The Canadian OEM filters are made by WIX... which are considered to be decent filters. BTW, you can order Mazda made filters from the dealer, but they cost more and they dont usually stock them.
09-27-04, 09:36 PM
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I wasn't assuming they had the best product out there, but I didn't think it would be comparable to the worst.
Besides it's just hearsay anyways, there's proof.
Besides it's just hearsay anyways, there's proof.
09-27-04, 09:41 PM
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interesting to see the results...
we do have to realize that this is more or less the original design Mazda had when the car first came into production. i totally believe that it is adequate in terms of filtering duty and doing what it is supposed to do. that said, i am sure that there are many filters out there that have a better design and are a better overall filter. it is fine to say that they outperform the OEM filter, but the question i think is really if it is justified?
i personally really don't think the OEM filter could cause any significant problems, at least not enough to cause permanent or future engine damage...
also note that Mazda changed filter manufacturers and are apparently now black in colour (not blue). i do not know if the design was revised, but the filter is smaller in dimension...
another thing i want to point out is that a lot of the high end filters out there are designed to reduce the amount of time between filter changes. if at minimum you follow the Mazda service intervals, the oil filter in our cars are actually changed fairly often compared to a lot of other cars...just something to think about
we do have to realize that this is more or less the original design Mazda had when the car first came into production. i totally believe that it is adequate in terms of filtering duty and doing what it is supposed to do. that said, i am sure that there are many filters out there that have a better design and are a better overall filter. it is fine to say that they outperform the OEM filter, but the question i think is really if it is justified?
i personally really don't think the OEM filter could cause any significant problems, at least not enough to cause permanent or future engine damage...
also note that Mazda changed filter manufacturers and are apparently now black in colour (not blue). i do not know if the design was revised, but the filter is smaller in dimension...
another thing i want to point out is that a lot of the high end filters out there are designed to reduce the amount of time between filter changes. if at minimum you follow the Mazda service intervals, the oil filter in our cars are actually changed fairly often compared to a lot of other cars...just something to think about
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09-27-04, 09:49 PM
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The blue ones are what they distribute at the dealerships, I haven't found a dealership that gives me a black one, I don't always goto the same dealership.
The filter on a rotary engine is much more important than any other. It's used for lubrication in different forms, including cooling. The oil goes through way more passages than a piston engine, and it's being purposely injected into the motor, etc. I wouldn't be quick to say "that's good enough" under this circumstance. You will have some seepage with cardboard ends, cardboard absorbs oil, steel will not.
It's an acceptable design, it's not like the seepage is serious, but it's by no means a bulletproof filter, some were saying OEM is the only way to go, best available. Here's the results. This is a probably bigger issue for those with a higher output motor. Just something to consider.
The filter on a rotary engine is much more important than any other. It's used for lubrication in different forms, including cooling. The oil goes through way more passages than a piston engine, and it's being purposely injected into the motor, etc. I wouldn't be quick to say "that's good enough" under this circumstance. You will have some seepage with cardboard ends, cardboard absorbs oil, steel will not.
It's an acceptable design, it's not like the seepage is serious, but it's by no means a bulletproof filter, some were saying OEM is the only way to go, best available. Here's the results. This is a probably bigger issue for those with a higher output motor. Just something to consider.
09-27-04, 09:53 PM
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The BLUE filters are made by WIX for the Canadian market... I dont think Mazda had anything to do with their design. They're made to fit the cars and filter oil, that's about it.
The BLACK filters are made by Mazda and seem to be of much higher quality. They weigh twice as much as the blue ones, have a metal base and have a rounded o ring instead of a glued on flat ring. These are the filters that are on the cars when they come from the factory. As soon as I saw these black filters, I knew I would never use the blue ones again.
There are black filters available for the same price as the usual blue ones lately because there was somekind of shippement problem that left Mazda with lots of black filters. Pick em up while there's still hot.
As I stated above, if you want the Black filters, they can be ordered by any dealership.
The BLACK filters are made by Mazda and seem to be of much higher quality. They weigh twice as much as the blue ones, have a metal base and have a rounded o ring instead of a glued on flat ring. These are the filters that are on the cars when they come from the factory. As soon as I saw these black filters, I knew I would never use the blue ones again.
There are black filters available for the same price as the usual blue ones lately because there was somekind of shippement problem that left Mazda with lots of black filters. Pick em up while there's still hot.
As I stated above, if you want the Black filters, they can be ordered by any dealership.
09-27-04, 09:58 PM
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Interesting, thanks for the tip, I was unaware of that.
USDM oil filters are all black, that's why I posted the "blue" cut open in this subforum. I didn't know black filters were also available to us. Blue is "EH"DM.
A heavier filter is a sign that it has steel filter ends, better quality.
Frams had complaints in the study of the glue melting and the filter coming apart internally. Hot oil on a rotary engine due to whatever situation be it failed thermovalve, or just a high output application, might decrease the life of that filter for that very reason. Could be a dangerous endeavour when it comes to the rotary.
USDM oil filters are all black, that's why I posted the "blue" cut open in this subforum. I didn't know black filters were also available to us. Blue is "EH"DM.
A heavier filter is a sign that it has steel filter ends, better quality.
Frams had complaints in the study of the glue melting and the filter coming apart internally. Hot oil on a rotary engine due to whatever situation be it failed thermovalve, or just a high output application, might decrease the life of that filter for that very reason. Could be a dangerous endeavour when it comes to the rotary.
09-28-04, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RXcetera
The BLUE filters are made by WIX for the Canadian market... I dont think Mazda had anything to do with their design. They're made to fit the cars and filter oil, that's about it.
The BLACK filters are made by Mazda and seem to be of much higher quality. They weigh twice as much as the blue ones, have a metal base and have a rounded o ring instead of a glued on flat ring. These are the filters that are on the cars when they come from the factory. As soon as I saw these black filters, I knew I would never use the blue ones again.
There are black filters available for the same price as the usual blue ones lately because there was somekind of shippement problem that left Mazda with lots of black filters. Pick em up while there's still hot.
As I stated above, if you want the Black filters, they can be ordered by any dealership.
The BLACK filters are made by Mazda and seem to be of much higher quality. They weigh twice as much as the blue ones, have a metal base and have a rounded o ring instead of a glued on flat ring. These are the filters that are on the cars when they come from the factory. As soon as I saw these black filters, I knew I would never use the blue ones again.
There are black filters available for the same price as the usual blue ones lately because there was somekind of shippement problem that left Mazda with lots of black filters. Pick em up while there's still hot.
As I stated above, if you want the Black filters, they can be ordered by any dealership.
09-28-04, 05:05 PM
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Yeah that was the whole idea here, that the Mazda Canada filters are basically the exact same build style/materials as the Fram in the oil filter study which got a bad review
09-28-04, 05:40 PM
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i was talking to someone who works at a dealership and he said that they only get the black ones if the blue ones are out of stock...so how do we get them here other than shipping from a website from the states?
09-29-04, 02:23 PM
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I used to work for a Mazda Dealership. I know for fact that the oil fllters in Canada (Blue ones) are made by Fram. They are contacted by Mazda Canada to Fram. This also goes for Honda Canada as well. When new vehicles (i.e Rx8, Miata, and Mazda 3) are in for their first oil change they come with black oil filters (same size but with english and japanese labeling), these are the better oil filters. I took a new oil filter from Mazda Canada (blue ones), a fram filter, and one of the black ones and found the interals to be idential in the 'Canadian' Mazda Canada Filters and the Fram, but the Black one was FAR superior. Better paper used and the cartage itself was a self-inclosed piece with metal ends (The Fram paper element had no metal supports at the end it looks cheap - feels cheap). The pressure relief valve was all metal with a spring assembly as opposed to the frams one piece metal angle piece. Also just out of curiousity I soaked both paper elements in a solvent for two hours and the fram paper element came apart like tissue paper and the JDM Black paper element was fine. It seems it is a better paper stock which would indicate better filtering.
09-29-04, 06:41 PM
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So, now for the big question... which oil filter should we use that is readily available here in Canada?
When I changed my oil and filter last month I picked up the blue Mazda filter, thinking that it *has* to be half-decent.
So, will it be quaker state, cdn tire's motormaster brand?
Roger
When I changed my oil and filter last month I picked up the blue Mazda filter, thinking that it *has* to be half-decent.
So, will it be quaker state, cdn tire's motormaster brand?
Roger
09-29-04, 07:03 PM
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I've mentioned several times on the forum that while OEM filters in the states are manufactured by Wix, those made for the Canadian market are none other than Fram. It's nice to get further confirmation from a former Mazda employee.
As for alternatives, I forget who manufactures the Quaker State filters but I recall it was one of the more reputable manufacturers. Purolator and AC Delco make good filters as do Wix.
The Napa Gold filter is Wix, but the Napa Silver is made by (I believe) Champion, another el-cheapo outfit.
As for alternatives, I forget who manufactures the Quaker State filters but I recall it was one of the more reputable manufacturers. Purolator and AC Delco make good filters as do Wix.
The Napa Gold filter is Wix, but the Napa Silver is made by (I believe) Champion, another el-cheapo outfit.