Fendamonkey, Stainless... what a bitch once you get to -10AN! Everything get exponentially painful. Even worst to try and get continuous tubing from fuel pumps to engine bay.

As I re-baptize myself in the Cult of Fuel-to-Noise Converters, I find myself drawn back to the .

I'm immediately rewarded with it's prophetic words on the back cover:

Oh I bet! We just stuck with -8 (1/2") steel for my new feed line. I figure that should be plenty of flow for my goals :)

Im sure going up to -10 was $$$ on top of being a pita!

Eat Crowing !!

"this fuel hose has been pickling in moonshine" is not so funny anymore. After first removing the fuel filter and seeing what looked like 2 tablespoons of alcohol smelling boogers, I realize the E85 had indeed destroyed all of the braided (rubber) hose. Worse yet, the shit was on the filter inlet AND outlet sides. I let it dry to try and confirm and it indeed looked like crystalize rubber.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...ca12631221.jpg
No wonder ID gave me shit about insufficient filtering in recent injectors cleaning and flow report. The hose downstream of the filter where also boogered up!

By the time I remove all the hose and drained the swirl pot, there was about a 1/4 -1/2cup of this rubber boogers in the system! Out it ALL cames.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...987d3b9ad6.jpg

All 304 stainless hardline and Aeroquip 666 hose and fittings will replace it all, once and for all. While I'm at it, all 3 Bosch 044 will be replaced as well; need more E85 compatible pumps. Walbro 450 will be the lift pump, and haven't decided on the pressure pump(s). Will likely hold out of the ID BPC... a painful as that may be to wait some more.

Now I just can't wait to see what's in the tank!!

Damn that really sucks. Corn juice FTL.

Wow, thanks for posting that. What fuel line was that, and how long did the E85 sit for? I've been running the same set of ID1000's since 2009 and ECU datalogs suggest they are still working well. My car has seen a few tanks of E85 during those years, but mostly gasoline. Good to know ID offers cleaning services, that might be something to do this winter.

I remember when you put those lines in a LOOOOONG time ago :).

E85 can do wonderful things but it is some harsh stuff. It will eat all sorts of crap up, especially on a non-daily driven car. Some people seem to think it's an easy fix to make more power with but it's best for many people to stay on good ol' gasoline.

Now since Carlos is already in the deep end of the pool, can't hurt to tie some weights to the ankles!

Dale

Indeed my old friend. Nothing like these iridium golashes to help quicken the descent into the rotary abyss. ;)

Decided to replace the in-tank Bosch 044 with a more E85 friendly pump... even got some increased flow in the deal. The Walbro '450' (F90000267) is remarkably small given it's capabilities, and as a lift pump (a couple of PSI), it blows the venerable Czech away. Finally, it gets an extra star for the 'Made in USA" stamp on the pump body.

To hold the little sucker in place, I got a hot-off-press and elegantly designed Core Components hangar adapters from an old track friend. I like it!

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...535c6474da.jpg
Walbro 450 (F90000267) in-tank

And yes, that's all E85 corrosion on the 044. The inside of the tank doesn't look any better; looks like I'll be dropping the tank... not sure if it'll go back in. Guess we'll see if project creep continues to rule the day.

There may be some coating/treatment for the tank to get it more happy. Probably doesn't help the car has most likely sat with old gas for some time too.

Dale

Stainless tubing are agents of the Devil!! Summoned below for your sadistic enjoyment are -10 / 5/8" Lucifers and lesser -08 / 1/2" Beelzebub's .
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...3dcd446607.jpg
Stainless Fuel Lines and ID750 fuel filter (Pressure)


And yes, those huge loops are the min radius as evident by the inside-arc crinkling.

Now to summon some -6 / 3/8" return line Leviathans tomorrow. And then to the in-circle of Hades... the fuel tank to swirl tank to the fuel pump Satan. :devil:

Man that is coming along! Cushion clamps too!

Dale

Looking good.

hey, long time no talk. i had similar issues with e85 gel'ing.
The worst is when the gel gets dry, it turns into that dusty stuff you show above.

Those stainless lines look great! I dont envy the fun you had bending all of that. haha

SR FUEL SYSTEM (V. 3.0) UPGRADED:

• Primary injectors: ID2000 -> ID1300X
• Fuel Filter: Aeromotive -> ID F750
• Fuel Press. Regulator: Aeromotive A1000 -> Weldon A2040
• Stainless hard lines in engine bay and undercar main lines
  • Recommend against -10 use due to min curve radius limits
• Braided stainless PTFE hose interconnection and flexlines
• Primary Pump: Bosch 044s (dual) -> Weldon 2015A
• In-Tank Lift Pump: In-tank 044 -> Walbro 485
• POR-15 Fuel Tank Sealer coated fuel tank

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...05d06ff80b.jpg
Engine fuel plumbing w. stainless hard lines, ID F750, Weldon FPR


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...da17c7f214.jpg
Weldon D2015A on 6061A pedestal w. -10 lines



https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...83a7a3d3d6.jpg
Under-car stainless hard line (-10 press & -6 return) w. rear bulkhead


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...e005b3df58.jpg
Rear Fuel bulkhead and Conti Flex Fuel Sensor

PERFORMANCE CALCULATIONS: (4-Bar base press press and 20.5 PSI boost on E50)

1. ID1300X/ID2000 injectors @ 85% Duty Cycle = 7081 cc/min
2. Fuel pump is good to 7633 cc/min
3. Flywheel HP(FWHP) - Fuel system is good for 726 FWHP, but turbo is only good to 524 FWHP, so air flow limited.

SUMMARY: E85 booger-pickling of the entire entire fuel system left it contaminated and compromised. While I cleaned out much of it, I ultimately was not comfortable with the remaining risk. I have to have a min-risk fuel system give what it feeds!! Above was my answer.

I strongly recommend AGAINST large diameter stainless in -10AN / 5/8" (short of a HUGE methanol requirements). The fabrication difficulty increases exponentially with diameter (not to speak of tooling cost). For that matter, if I had to do it over again, I'd do all PTFE braided lines instead. Don't follow my "blazing a trail" (thanks a lot Crispy) on this one!

I do recommend the POR-15 Fuel Tank kit for alternative fuels. Follow instruction closely and diligently. Took me two tries to get a proper result... but dang with an awesome coating!! Basically epoxy coating your tank.

"One data point is worth 1000 theories"

Did the initial leak checks on the Walbro - swirl pot fuel loop. After I tightened all of the (porn quality) squirts coming from fitting, I wanted to check if the Walbro's 2 gallons per minute (@ 0-ish psi) through the -8 line would cause back pressure through the stock diameter (.24" ID) return line. < 1 psi pressure on the return line is the answer.
.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...0511a7facf.jpg
.

Since my main pressure (swirl pot to Weldon to the injectors) loop is also about a 1.5gal/min system and given this data point, I have little doubt that my -10 pressure system is (wastefully) overbuilt . Live and learn.

My back is crying tears of joy today... Spic Lift ™ has landed.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...a5347e0a78.jpg

Good for you man! that's gonna make your life so much easier!

Fuel System test & EMAP System
 

Keg version 5.0 is ready and waiting for it's brain (Motec M1) and nervous system (Connexions Concepts harness). Some upgrades...

FUEL SYSTEM
The fuel system is designed for a 4 Bar (58 psi) base fuel pressure and up to 2 Bar of boost. After several iterations learning PFTE hose construction and stainless tube bending and flaring, I finally got a leak-free 5-minute, 125% operating fuel pressure check across the entire system. I think "That'll do" !

BTW, the Weldon sound like an air raid siren from the Battle of Britain!


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...7867b980bf.jpg

EXHAUST BACK PRESSURE

EFI Volumetric Efficiency (VE) mapping will be primarily MAP / EMAP based. EMAP plumbing constraints include the need to scrub and cool of the signal(s) before they reach the pressure sensor. Needless to say, hellish rotary EGTs will make short work of even the most severe duty pressure sensors. The usual approach is to make the lines off the manifold sufficiently long (~3 ft) to bring the gas temp down to a manageable 'hellfire'. Flowing in to a collection canister (with stainless steel wool), the signals are averaged, 'scrubbed' and further cooled before flowing to the actual sensor.

There is a thermal/responsiveness/packaging tradeoff in the length of the manifold to canister (usually stainless) steel line(s). Too short, the packaging is easier but not enough heat is dissipated. Too long, and packaging can become a challenge and the signal response is adversely impacts. To try and work around these trade-offs, I'm going to use cooper-nickel lines. The thermal conductivity if almost 3x that 304 stainless, so I can reduce length in 1/2, still improve cooling and responsiveness up.

The biggest risk is operating temperature. While 304 stainless has a melting point of ~2600 F, the 10/90% cooper nickel is only 2100F. With rotary EGT limit's upwards 1800F (though only for moment max power), I think the margin is relatively low risk.

I can't find any instances or discussion of this application. As usual, it may suck to be on the bleeding edge. So all that theory aside, I'm bringing my original stainless lines to the first dyno just in case my "mechanical musings" are full of shit. Well see!!
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...34e918dc6b.jpg
EMAP - Lines, Canister and Sensor
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...595bba5353.jpg
EMAP - Front Line and Canister

Keeping it old school (kindda)...

I got the old Momo carbon-kevlar (NASCAR) seats refurbished locally. Thankfully I had saved a full set of the harness hole trim pieces, cause a couple cracked in the process. Overall fairly happy.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...d0ddd575cf.jpg
Momo NASCAR Carbon-Kevlar - face
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...d9e41d5083.jpg
Momo NASCAR Carbon-Kevlar - back

Just a simple boost control valve swap... 5 min-ish!
 

Necessity is the mother of all invention.. and 'Murphy's' favorite daughter.

To improve (x2) the range of boost that my boost controller can reign in for a given spring, I decided to swap out my old IR 3-port for a MAC 4-port. Should be easy enough, right?!?! Just swap the old one valve with a (Motec) one: 5-minutes right!?

Oh wait, the two valves have different mounting patterns and holes sizes. Too easy... I'll cut, drill and tap a new mount. Oh and the MAC needs M3 machine screws so the M4 screws from the IR won't fit. Well I know ACE Hardware has a decent supply of stainless metric machine screws, so just a short 20 minute trip there and back. Got it remounted and notices that I'll need to cut new braided lines because the connection points change for all three line. No problem... kindda. Remount the new valve, and re-connect the hose. Shit, why won't one of the hose ends screw in to the -04AN fitting. Now what... the two fittings are too close together; the hose ends interfere with each other. Ok, so I'll extend one of them with a couple of M-M and F-F couples... well, maybe not, I abhor adding two additional failure joints. Now what?! Hope someone makes an NPT to AN 1-piece extension fitting.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...d18b647c3b.jpg


Search. Search. Search. Bingo, Earl's Pressure Gauge Adapter (968804) to the rescue... and the Summit Racing store just 10 mins away even has 4 in stock. Drive. Buy. Drive. And install in the valve. For fahk sake, still some interference. This time between the original -04 hose end and the Earl's oversized hex and both want to occupy the same space. <deep breath>

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...85beb1cdc4.jpg

Ok, we thankfully have the Spic Racing Machine shop. Warm up the old trusty 1942 DoAll bandsaw to 75 RPMs with the medium blade, sort through my tool scrap for a gig and cut one of the hex sides off the Earls fitting. Remount and refasten and VICTORY... and only 3 hours after starting the 5 minutes valve changeout!
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...712a47ef1e.jpg

Sound familiar? :banghead:

Haha I love this post! Everything I think is going to be simple turns out to be a major pain in the arse!

SWEET! I assume the metal brake and english wheel are on the other wall

No english wheel cause I don't work sheet metal... yet. However, I have been shopping a used metal brake for about 6 months now... got a epic ducting projects in mind for it. :nod: Anyways, just a big parts washer, a dual Walker-Turner drill & tap station, a 10" grinders, an oxy-acetylene pair, and my treasured 1910 5" Chas Parker bench vice on the other walls. Oh yeah, and an amazingly supportive wife!!

That's the best tool of all :icon_tup: