Who uses Water Injection?
 

So with all the threads on water injection, I thought it would be proper to make one to find out who is actually using it. If you are using it, specify what brand it is, which unit/type, any specifications you think are necessary, what you like about it, what you dont like about it, and most importantly, the price of your setup. Also, please include your engine setup (estimated power level etc) to give a better idea of what youre working with.

I'm hoping this can transform into some sort of water injection buyers guide for those who are interested (including myself). There are a variety of kits on the market ranging from $500 to $1500+, so finding out who uses what, and whats working for them would definitely be helpful in deciding which route to go.

When posting include as much useful info as possible and maybe even a few pictures would be helpful, lets see em!

well, i havnt actually used my kit yet, but im currently installing it. its very easy, but also basic...

but brand new from coolingmist.com its only $199.00!!!!!!!!!! cant beat it. i like it very much. but like i said, i havnt actually used it yet. so we'll see if i keep liking it...

I'm using water injection. Its similar to the rice racing preturbo kit. Uses boost pressure instead of a pump it has a peak flow currently around 380cc. I made it myself for around $100.

Brand - Cooling Mist

Kit - cheapest one available, their website has it for under $199

HP - 600HP (10.3@139MPH)

I use water on the street and 50/50 at the track for boost levels 30-35 psi. I don't use pure methanol. I tune the car with E85 and add the water/meth to cool things down and I also run a large intercooler.

I like cooling mist for their support. Sure you can spend a ton more or make your own but I decided to go with the cheapest setup cooling mist has and it's been working well for over a year with no issues and no failures.

Anthony

awesome info.
are you able to adjust the amount of pressure on this kit to your liking?
what are you using for a tank?
where did you mount your pump?

im guessing anthonyNYC bought the same kit as i did. the basic kit for 199.00 is NOT adjustabe. as soon as it turns on...its on at full power and stays there. but you can adjust it to its activating PSI.

hey AnthonyNYC, since i have the same kit maybe you could help me out. where are you injecting at? why still running an intercooler? what PSI do you activate it? any tips would help....thanks

you use just 100% distilled water in the windshield washer tank for the street right?

id like to know also

you can use whatever you want on the street. but it gets kinda pricey if your wasting alchohol in the street all the time... you can get distilled water from walmart for 25 cents a gallon. but if you go from a meth/water mix to just water. you will need to have a seperate tune you can switch between.

series 2 rx7
13bre cosmo engine built by me
stock mazda 2mm apex seals
rice racing water injection kit - $800 currently - pnuematic system - no pumps - easy to fit.no hassles all parts supplied except tank.
plain tap water in tank
550.9rwhp on 24psi on shell v power 98 octane pump fuel
its the perfect system.

its there purely for combustion temp control,not intercooling or anything.and egts are perfectly managable even at this pwoer level.im still at sub 900degC egt even with 550rwhp.

its THE BEST system u cna get and he sets it up b4 u purchase it aswell.

You cannot adjust the pressure on my kit. For what I use it for it works well. My wastegate spring is 20-21 psi so I never see less than that on the street so for me, the basic kits works great. I have the tank and pump mounted above my intercooler.

It comes on about 15 psi and have dual nozzles mounted in the greddy elbow. I don't buy into not running an intercooler but that's a whole other debate. Why eliminate one for another when you can have both. I ran 30-35psi all last year and had about twenty or more 10sec passes on the setup with no issues so it works well for me. Keep in mind I also run E85 so I feel I have the best of all three worlds right now lol.

I use it the same way.

I use regular tap water. This past winter I used a mix so things don't freeze.

i tested my car today.

on street tyres runs 12.244 @130.25mph on pump fuel with water injection.

60 ft - 2.16
660 - 8.3 @ 101
0-100 - 4.5 ( no grip)
100-200 - 6.9 with 2 gearshifts

not bad on street ,with street tyres,on pump fuel on 22.5psi boost.

need grip dammit.

Not trying to dog you or anything, but 550rwhp is more then enough for 10's. Low 11's without slicks.

I use tap water.

I am tap water as well.

Rotorpsi1s car with slicks at a track and proper driving will run 135mph+

His setup is awesome.
His problem is powerband im pretty sure. If he wasnt such a chicken :) he would lift the rev limiter another 500rpm and it would be heaps better.

Jasons tune is so mild it isnt funny.
Their is so 600rwhp in that tune on a descent dyno and cleaning it out in the top end all the way to 8700-8900rpm and watch the mph go through the roof.

COME ON JASON> GROW THE TESTIES AND DO IT!

Another thing i will add. Jasons car was tuned to 550rwhp on 25psi.

On the road its going 22-23 so he isnt using all the power.

Put more boost into it CHICKEN!

I just finished my kit, supercharged FC, it only gets to about 5 PSI, but that is overcoming 20 vac so not to bad... ( i know i know WEAK but its an n/a fc supercharged, and sounds sick and is fun...)

anyway I have the 199 coolingmist kit as well, I put the tank (1gal) and the pump in the spare tire area, tire is under luggage straps, it comes with a relay and a boost switch, all wired up and comes on at about 1PSI, I also installed a green light in line with the pump (off the relay) so the light comes on when the pump is pumping, lets me know its working, I also have a red light that I will tap into the low fluid indicator when I get it (ordered that today)

Today was the day for testing, just put the lights in and adjusted the boost switch, put the light in so that I can see from the boost gauge where the thing comes on, also for peace of mind... not sure how well it works, I don't have a IAT gauge or anything but I am sure it is doing its job

I am running distilled water only, in so cal so no worry of freezing...


I'll snap some pics in the AM

guys i dotn think u understand what it takes to run that time on the street on normal tyres,normal pressures,everyday boost,unprepared rough bitumen.

its fuckin hard with rxd and solid axle and 225 tyres i can assure u.

yes,at track it will go 135-140 somewhere,who knows i may go out again and improve that time again.fuck,its done 12.2@117 on 12psi b4:lol: my plans are to go out and retest it on 14-16psi so its not so overpowered in the lower gears.

to give u an idea its doin 12;s bcos its only doing 2.2 60 foots,this same car and tyre setup has done 1.78 at strip on first attempt,u do the maths:icon_tup:

also,i have tested 1000's of cars over the years from evo's to gtrs to gtir's to skylines to silvias all varying on power from 300rwhp to 500+rwhp.

the only car in 6 years to beat this time was hks built 2.8L t51r r32gtr on 21psi and it only did 10.7@128mph with a fuill 400m of full grip acceleration,im doing 130 on same pice of road rwd pedalling it to 100kmh.

dont worry,heaps left in it yet:)

yeah im going to setup my afr logger this week and log the mixtures and see if i can pump another few psi in up top and clean the afrs up again/take 1 increment of fuel out up top to clean it out at 23psi.

i would like to see a neat 24/25psi and 10.5afr instead of 22-23psi and 10.0-10.4afr.the lack of boost is causing slight misfire way up top above 7500rpm and over 160kmh.

i will point out though,unlike drag cars,i can run 12.2@127-130mph off ANY set of lights or intersection should i be craxy enough to want to.

no drag strip or race fuel or vht or slicks or retunes needed.

thats what im happy about,its usable power thanks to the w/i and toyos.

some pics,
first we have the nozzle, in retrospect I wish I would have put it after the BOV, it mufffles the sound sometimes... oh well

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...pictureid=8247

next we have the pump and tank, its in the spare tire area.. neat and easy..

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...pictureid=8245

and last here are some status lights, red for low fluid, green for injection..

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...pictureid=8244

these lights are hudge, radio crap shack was out and parts store had very very big ones, one day I will replace them...

I baught the cooling mist kit and was 100% unsatisfied with the controller and cooling mist in general.

the controller has controls that stick out too far and with any nudge can be bumped.

also, they dont lable their nozzles. so i just slapped the smallest one they gave me.

i dont recommend getting a kit.

i got a controller from labonte motorsports and have been 100% happy with it. i need to redo my setup and put it inside the engine bay. currently its in the storage bin and im sparying filtered tap water pre turbo.

s4t2 with NA s4 rotors, bnr stage 1 with haltech e6x. 550 bottoms and 1600's on top.

FYI, You can lock the knobs in place on that controller so that if you move the knobs it will not change the setting. In the instructions it tells you the small nozzle is 380 cc the large is 760 cc.

Move your jet to pre turbo.Post turbo is no were near as effective.

And honestly. Distilled water? are people on this forums serious?

dude i live in San Diego.. when I fill my coffee pot it takes 5 minutes to clear up.. and if I spray that on my car.. white spots EVERYWHERE that take forever to scrub off with windex and PP towels, tastes like crap and well you get the point so YES distilled water....

I'm injecting windshield wiper fluid after 9 psi, Aquamist 1s kit. Car runs like a champ, I was ripping around yesterday at 19 psi on 93 octane pump fuel, the car loved it based on knock, EGTs, and lack of traction :D

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...=aquamist+pics

yes. they buy the water.

i just run filtered water ( i get it for free from a buddies house. lives in a recording studio and all the cold runing water in the house is filtered, even if they water the grass. lol )

I use normal tap water here in aus. NO WORRIES.

I have the FJO kit and I'm in the process of installing it now, just trying to decide where to put all the components and I'm also looking for a tank to use. If anyone has any suggestions please feel free to tell me. This is going on an FD btw.

Also, a thread I started a while back with similiar information...

https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/ai-setup-do-you-use-why-817631/

Check out usplastics.com they have great prices on containers. Like 10 dollars for a the typical container that would come with a kit. They are very well built too, i pressurize mine to over 20 psi regularly.

I use tap water as well.

The odd time if I'm gasing up and water is low, I grab a litre from the store and top off the tank though. Just a convience thing basically.

My car runs a snowperformance kit, "stage 2" :lol: progressive controller.

currently in the car is the 380cc nozzle
mounted in TB elbow inlet (FC guy here)
150psi pump, not the big daddy 220something.
pump and tank mounted under right headlight, tank is custom, ~2.2L capacity.
Tank will last approx. one tank of fuel with a heavy foot. With a light foot it obviously lasts forever HAHA

Also, like anthony I do run a mix of either meth, or washer fluid towards the colder parts of our year to avoid any icing down there.

Car made 380whp last year on a SHAT tune with a SHAT turbine and a SHAT ecu only revving to 5900RPM :lol:

The best part though, at 380whp, it made 330ft/lbs TQ. Perhaps alot had to do with the stock ports, but the water IMO is certainly raising torque. You can't compress it, so you're running slightly higher dynamic compression when its spraying.

This year after many changes - EGT's at redline (around 8K) are about 875C @ 20psi from the T04-R with the WI. I should likely switch back to my larger nozzle to control them, but haven't started tinkering yet.

it is pre turbo. i just run filtered form a buddies house.


its fun.

here is the link?

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pro...oduct_id=14120

Yes thats the link. You can get them with or without i water nipple coming off of them. I got mine without and just tapped my own fittings in there.

Thanks guys! I was looking at the site last night. I'll have to pick something up soon. Thanks again!

What nozzles are the coolingmist guys running for what hp?

I would say 100cc per 100 hp works out pretty well. I'm running 500cc pre turbo at around 500 hp.before that i ran 380 cc for mid 400's.

at 500rwhp i would be running 600cc.

I like abit extra.

I need to figure out what volume I'm injecting, I'm using an Aquamist 1S system with the 0.9mm nozzle and their old-school pump.

Good info. That sounds about right. Based on this, we should establish what a/fs to tune for a certain boost increments. There are already a/f guidelines set up for non a/i pump gas boost pressures. We now need some for a/i.

I just tune about the same afr's but run higher boost. I like to keep it on the conservative side and let the boost make the power

Well I mean, usually when you raise boost, you richen it up as well. Most non-a/i guys run at around 10.5-10.9 A/Fs at 15PSI. Im running 11.5ish A/Fs at the same boost pressure due to my 315cc's of water.

I think people run such rich AFRs to help stop or suppress predet/knock to make running pump gas at higher load pressures safe. With water, you are able to use the water to knock suppression, slow the flame front, cool the internals, and use the fuel for its power only without fuel flooding it. I read somewhere that there was a consensus that 11.9-12.1 AFRs with water was about the sweet spot or something like that.

Here it is http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f160...ml#post1045017

I have no way of knowing if any of this is true, but is the entire thread made a lot of sense to me. Maybe this thread is widely known but yeah... Would be cool to see your guys opinions of it. :)

Also, this one is pretty interesting. http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/intake/WI.htm

Opps hit post too fast.

"We've seen that excess fuel is traditionally used as in-cylinder coolant. We've also seen here that water is a much better alternative for this purpose, since its latent heat is 6 -7 times higher than fuel (energy absorbed as the tiny droplets evaporate)
Latent heat of fuel = 350KJ/kg
Latent heat of Methanol = 1109 Kg/kJ
Latent heat of water = 2256KJ/kg

It appears that all you need is 3% water/fuel to replace two points of AFR (10.5-12.5). There is no performance gains in going richer than 12.5:1, and a lot less mass of water is needed to cool things down."

(sorry if this is already well known information.)

^^ Makes sense.

kk. :) Just trying to help and understand this stuff like everyone else. A lot of people are getting some amazing results, I can't wait to get my engine back up. (like all the people that are not running race fuel or AI of some sort lol. Although running AI or race fuel wouldn't have helped me lol)

Before running wi i still didn't run so rich. I ran 11.3. at 15 psi but never exceeded 16 psi. When i added the wi i left the tune the same at 15-16 psi but then later when i trusted the setup i increased boost to 20 w/ 11 flat afr. I'll probably tune to 25 psi at 10.8 or so.

For people using water only.

Dont go leaning it out while adding water.

Keep it rich. Have a good ignition system.
Thats the key to reliability.
Your not trying to subtract fuel for the amount of water added. This is the mistake alot of people make. ITS NOT METHANOL.

Did you read the article above? Because it states you do the exact opposite and it actually makes a lot of sense.

I agree, while water can allow you to tune a bit leaner, the small amount of extra power isn't worth lowering the safety margin, that's one of the whole points of adding AI to the system. I like to tune to the middle/upper range of whats generally considered the limits on pump fuel alone. So if 11.5 @ 15 psi is considered the edge of being safe on 93 alone, I'll tune a a couple tenths of a point lower with water. Without water I wouldn't even attempt 20 psi, but my knock readings are right around 20 with 500cc water and 11.0:1 AFRs. I started out with around 10.5 afr, but I could feel a difference when I took some fuel out, and knock was the same so I left it there when I got to 11.0. So far I've run up to 22 psi and haven't had any issues with tuning this way.

WaachBack

Mate i dont care for stupid internet articles.

I have done alot of wi tuning and MY REAL LIFE experience has shown me that pulling out fuel and replacing it with water is not using the power of water correctly. And pushing the envelope you will end up with a dead engine.

Im not going to argue with you, my experience has shown me lean mixtures only net good gains with weak ignition or STUPIDLY high amounts of water. Other wise running low 11s high 10s is a good place to be.