Water/AI components
 

I looked around quite a bit and really I have seen alot of different kits that people have, and alot of different things that people have done. I want to get the AI/Water setup asap. Problem is I have no clue what is the best setup for what I have. Currently Im running the stock twins and as soon as im back from this deployment (1 month :)) Im going to install....Power Fc/ intake/down pipe/high flow cat/racing beat exhaust/ getting a full silicone hose job/ and the Pettit coolcharge III intercooler. Im going for a conservitive tune and about 320 hp tops for the time being.

With this info given and the fact that im going to switch to a gt35R kit in the next year or so (shooting for 400 hp on a streetport) which kit out there is the best for me. Im looking for a full kit! Everything that I need from the Tank/injectors/lines/pump/hookups everything that I will need.

And I plan on hooking the injector up to the greddy elbow.

Thanks for helping me out if you do....

Howard Coleman, I read your thread on standing up for the rotary and its completely what conviced me of doing this. Your the man.

http://www.rx7store.net/250_PSI_Stan...trunkmount.htm

This kit looks pretty decent... I dont know if it has "everything" but i dont know what the hell im talking about with this AI/Water injection shit thats why im here.

I'm suffering from the same problem -- information overload.

I'm also confused about what sensors can be run together to get the optimal environment Howard talks about so much. For instance, I'm running a Haltech E6X, PLX Wideband, and GReddy EGT. Is it even possible to combine these? Because I have a first gen, I threw out all of the stock sensors in favor of a full standalone and not the PowerFC. Are my current sensors junk for running HD-AI? Should I just put everything up for sale and start over?? LOL.

Anyways, just wanted to say "ditto".

AEM is what I run.

If you just plan on using water it's actually quite simple. Pick up the coolingmist trunk mount kit and your done. Simple to install.

FYI,

all coolingmist kits are methanol compatible.

take care

"Howard Coleman, I read your thread on standing up for the rotary and its completely what conviced me of doing this. Your the man. "

no, if you are on deployment, YOU ARE THE MAN.

i recently did a car for a friend that had blown his motor. generally i don't pull motors and do mechanical work but i felt if i didn't analize the whole set of systems he might just blow another motor...

anyway, he has a GT35r and does a bit of road racing and the FD w 375 rwhp will beat most other cars ontrack.... so we didn't need methanol... we just needed to lock down his systems and run water.

i installed a Coolingmist setup w the pump attached to the tank. sort of turnkey. it works like a dream. engine is happy. my friend is happy. case closed.

i may have a thread on the install w a few pics. thanks RX7store and Coolingmist.

OTOH, i had a couple of engines i had built tuned by Steve Kan in Minn 2 weeks ago. we were looking for hp. both were Coolingmist systems.

one ran 2 M10 (1260 CC/Min) nozzles w 100% meth, an R85 and made 501 Standard rwhp at 20 psi. the other was AI limited as it ran only one 500 CC nozzle and was a meth water mix so Steve tuned it to 459 rwhp.

take your pick.... AI works.

RotaryRocket93... look forward to your safe ruturn and PM me w any questions or better yet post them so all can share. (BTW, i don't have all the answers.)

howard

Appreciate the responses from yall... The YOU ARE THE MAN made me lol.... This 250 psi cooling mist kit from RX7store looks like about what I need.... Im guessing all I need to use in it is water for my applications. Planning on 400hp max down the road .

http://www.rx7store.net/250_PSI_Stan...trunkmount.htm

I guess now all I need to know is for a fact. Does it come with EVERYTHING that I need to Hook it up from a source of power (from the battery I suppose) all the way to the Nozzles?

And Do I need to do anything special to hook it up to a greddy elbow? Any kind of nozzle or flange?



once again thanks for everyones help...

Also if anyone has a pic of the nozzle installed on the elbow it would be awesome if you could post it in this thread.

ya the kit comes with everything you need to get it up and running. Doesn't look like it comes with a controller though. Maybe coolingmist can chime back in on that.

Additional item I got was a low level float. You can get those right from coolingmists website.

Installed my nozzle in stock elbow. It's simple to do. Picked up a tap at Lowes. Once you drill and tap, the nozzle threads right in.

I'm really interested in this whole evolution also, but am in the same boat with the information/option overload.

What I've taken from what I've read so far is that you basically can go about AI from:

1. Simplest setup running only water (or windshield wiper fluid) with the goal of reducing the risk of detonation. Side benefit of keeping your engine clean as well. This option is not tuning for power, it's just an additional safety feature.
2. Tuning for power. This opens a whole other range of possibilities and situations. If the AI system fails you could be in trouble. This is obviously going to be more complicated as it's something you constantly have to be aware of and monitor.

Goodfellafd3s has some pics of a setup that is basically what I was thinking about doing. Connect a pump up to your windshield washer tank, run your injector(s) to the elbow and then chose if you want to use voltage or boost pressure to run the system. This is the route I'll probably be going as I don't track the car much at all. When I do get on the gas during street driving though, I'll have the extra safety margin the AI system provides.

Tuning for power means I'll need to run more gauges, fluid level lights, trunk tank mount and the headache of constantly making sure its working perfectly.

You could also always start out with the basic # 1 option, and later on when you go single add in the additional electronics to monitor the system and install a larger tank in the trunk.

The problem for me is picking a vendor :( Coolingmist, aquamist, devils own, AEM snow performance .... I probably forgot a few.

I also concur on Howard's posts, I've enjoyed reading them as well he's a huge asset to this community. Thanks Howard.

Whats going to be the difference on the 250 psi kit and the 150 psi? $50? other than that what does it do for you?

Ill be pusing 22psi and 500whp on my next setup on pure water. 400 is totally doable.

Im just waiting to know the difference between the 250psi and 150 before I make my order.... I dont know that the 250 psi is neccessary or not for my setup.

I have the 150psi pump as well as probably most others. Pretty sure the 250psi pump came out relatively short while ago. The higher psi pump will give better water atomization.

Okay, so 150 psi pump it will be..... Just out of curiosity where would be the best place on the cold side of the intercooler piping to tap and thread the hole for the nozzle? Would it be the greddy elbow? Or the intercooler Piping? And what size hole do i need to make tap and thread....

an easy way to situate the nozzles would be to locate them in the silicone coupler immediately in front of the greddy elbow... pictures in my thread on the Alkycontrol setup i ran 2 years ago.. a sticky in the AI section.

hc

I saw that im kind of confused as to how it will stay in the coupler and not harm the structural integrity of the silicone coupler its self....

Here is a photo of a silicone coupler taken from the Devils Own site

11/32 drill bit and 1/8th NPT (27 threads per inch) tap - Not very difficult to drill and tap but as Howard mentioned, the coupler is gonna be the easiest method.

okay so its not like its just popped in there at all....

I like the Idea of the Coupler that way I can keep my elbow more open for future modifications.... like a new bov for when i go single... What parts do you use to secure the nozzle on the coupler like a washer and nut? that would be some serious shit if the nut got sucked into the intake.....

yes a washer and nut and some loctite. no problem. there should be a few pics in my alkycontrol install thread

hc

Hey Howard! I looked at that thread... very impressive indeed. I just didnt know what was on the other side of that nozzle. Im assuming you drilled out a hole just big enough to squeeze the nozzle into then secured it from the other side? If this is the case this is the route ill take, simple and can be undone if need be with alot less cost of a new elbow...

As you are looking into constructing a system for your project, the following information will help to to identify what is currently on the market.


Aim of W/M (water methanol) injection:

1. Induction cooling: a large amount of heat is absorbed during evaporation.

2. Octane boosting and knock suppression: Methanol - suppresses knock by octane supplement. Water suppresses by slowing down flame speed.

3. In-cylinder coolng: reducing peak combustion temperature durng evaporation.

4. EGT reduction: reduces temperature stress to exhaust valves and turbo turbine blades.



W/M System basics:

5. Pressurised W/M pushing through an atomising nozzle

6. W/M System is normally triggered by engine load sensor



WM system options:

7. Single stage system (SS-S): full spray after triggering

8. Double stage system (DS-S): A second nozzle is activated at a higher engine load

9. Progressive pump speed system (PPS-S): A motor speed controller progressively increasing pump speed to attain high line pressure to increase flow.

10. PWM valve system (PWM-V): Same principle as a standard fuel injection system, flow is controller by an inline valve.



WM system availability from WM manufacturers:

11. Single stage: All manufactures make them

12. Two stage system: Often needs a second pressure switch added to the single stage system

13. Progressive pumps system: all manufacturers except FJO and Aquamist

14. PWM valve system: FJO (cell by cell) and Aquamist (IDC tracking) only.



Not all the systems are the same

15. A PPS system normally costs about 30% less than the PWM valve system.

16. A PPS (progressive pump speed) system cannot be compared to a PWM valve (similar to an OE fuel injection system) system. At best the dynamic flow range of a PPS system is x2. This calculation is based on a pressure change of 60psi to 240psi. For a "pressure change" of x4, you will only get x2 flow change.

17. For "PPS" system to work as well as a "PWM valve" system (at worse x10 dynamic flow range), the PPS system needs to have a pressure change of 60 psi to 600psi!!!

18. The other important factor most people missed is the response time to a load transient. A rotation mass as in a PPS cannot suddenly speed up and slow down. This leads to a delay in a "ramp up" and a delay in "ramp down". A PWM valve system response to load change in a "thousandth of" a seconds compare to "tenth-of" seconds. This leads to inconsistant AFR during load or gear change.


For more indepth details study of the systems go to the link below:

https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/indepth-study-wai-injection-systems-820079/

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