My AI build up thread
 

To start this out, thanks to everyone on this board for all the great information.

The goal is to get past 500hp to the wheels on 93 pump and methanol.

Here is my shopping list:

Coolingmist pump
http://www.coolingmist.com/products/...0Pumplarge.jpg

1200cc/min FJO racing solenoid
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/view...tion_Solenoids

FJO racing water injection solenoid driver. The driver will be controlled off of an output from my Hatech E8.
[couldnt find a picture]

Mallory 30-100psi fuel pressure regulator - i plan on running this at 100 psi
http://static.summitracing.com/globa...305m_07m_w.jpg

Coolingmist filter
http://www.coolingmist.com/products/.../12BFlarge.jpg

I am going to run stainless lines from my tank -> pump -> fuel pressure reg. I will run the cooling mist lines from the regulator forward to the solenoid.

I forgot to take pictures of my tank but basically it is a stainless tank that is mounted where my passenger side muffler used to be (i run a single exhaust). I have yet to weld the back on it as i am waiting for my pump to get here so i can build a nice recessed spot for my tank. It looks like the capacity will be around 3.25 gallons.

I will be having Steve Kan tune it nov 29-30.

Current setup:
Fresh rebuild and HBP
ASpec 500r turbo/manifold ( i forgot the exact turbine a/r but it was the biggest they offered)
4" exhaust
walboro pump+aeromotive fpr
550/1680 injectors
FMIC
Haltech E8

A few things i have not quite figured out/questions:
1. Will my fuel pump be enough? I know JRat made 450whp with a single walboro. I believe howard is using a bosch 044 with a boost a pump (correct me if i am wrong). If i need to add more pump i will go to dual walboros, with one pump going to each rail.
2. Who makes the best bang for the buck fuel pressure gauge? I would like to add one for my gas setup and one for my meth setup.
3. I am going to build an access port through the floor of my trunk to fill my meth tank. I plan on probably taking the car to the drag strip on occasion and maybe a trip to a road course. What precautions do i need to take in designing it so that i pass tech inspection?

Please post any comments/suggestions you might have, it is all appreciated.

Thanks

Lee

Here is some of the progress so far:

I have the majority of the tank welded up:
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...3/IMG_1274.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...3/IMG_1275.jpg

The tank was about 3.5 gallons before i cut the back to fit the pump in there. I think the whole pump mounting caused me to loose about a gallon of volume. I am going to cut an access port in my trunk floor to get to the fill cap. There is a vent mounted to the top of the tank with a tip over valve in it. Hopefully i will never utilize the tip over protection.... The tank mounts where the passenger side muffler used to be. It tucks away pretty cleanly. Very little is visible bellow the bumper. The lid is a summit racing fuel cell replacement cap. The tank is ss304. To give you a rough idea of the mounting of the pump:
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...3/IMG_1276.jpg

All the stainless lines are -6 hose. A line 1/4 inch line will be run forward to my FJO solenoid.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...3/IMG_1279.jpg
My fuel pressure regulator will mount to the side of the tank near the underside of the car:
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...3/IMG_1277.jpg

first off... congrats on assembling what will be a super system.

1. Will my fuel pump be enough? I know JRat made 450whp with a single walboro. I believe howard is using a bosch 044 with a boost a pump (correct me if i am wrong). ////////////////////// i assume you are referring to the pump for your pumpgas...... i run a nipon cosmo pump w a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump (BAP). the BAP is set to raise V to the pump only in boost and is set at plus 20%. when i added my alcohol (around 1200 CC/Min w the AlkyControl and 1400 w the FJO) my duty cycle dropped about 20 points, from high 80s. prior to the alcohol my 850/1600s were close to 90%. i do digitally log fuel pressure and can tell you my pump/BAP delivered constant pressure.////////////////////

If i need to add more pump i will go to dual walboros, with one pump going to each rail.//////// i really like the BAP. less plumbing etc///////////


2. Who makes the best bang for the buck fuel pressure gauge? I would like to add one for my gas setup and one for my meth setup./////////you want a pressure sensor so you can log pressure.... FJO makes good ones////////////////
3. I am going to build an access port through the floor of my trunk to fill my meth tank. I plan on probably taking the car to the drag strip on occasion and maybe a trip to a road course. What precautions do i need to take in designing it so that i pass tech inspection?/////////it is outside your body so it should be o k//////////


i don't see a return line (to the tank) from your pressure regulator. as per my thread... you will need one.

pretty narly looking setup you got there

There is a return line, didnt have a chance to plumb it. I got sick of dealing with the braided stainless lines. I am absolutely terrible at assembling those hose ends.

Im not sure what is causing my welds to oxidize so bad. Should i be using a higher flow rate of shielding gas or a larger cup on the tig torch? Im kinda sick of having to grind off all the nasty oxidation.

Update:
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...3/IMG_0293.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...3/IMG_0294.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...3/IMG_0295.jpg

Im to embarrassed to show my tig welds for the bung to hold the injector. Lets just say i need to do a bit of grinding and chase the threads with a pipe tap....

I forgot to order a 90 degree hose end so i will have to wait til next week to get the tank mounted. I'll probably cut the access hole tomorrow. more pictures to come.

Very nice work! where did you find the 1200cc solenoid? The biggest one i saw on there parts list was only1000cc?

He is now at 554whp. Single Walbro and one M10 nozzle using ethanol (denatured alcohol).

congrats. you have assembled a system that will eventually be on any serious single turbo FD.

the essential components:

a solid state controller for the solenoid/fuel injectors featuring the ability to tune off an X Y grid of rpm and load.

properly engineered injectors... FJO invested a year in designing/testing their units.

pump. while i replaced my FJO Shurflo pump w a Bosch i believe it is highly probable that the Shurflo would have worked fine after modifying the system to include a pressure regulator and return line. they are essential.

adjustable pressure regulator. after a lengthy survey i picked the Weldon unit as it is 100% meth compatible and is adj to 200 psi.

return line. this is essential so the pump does not cavitate and create gas in the line when the injectors are not venting injectant.

i am not up on what you can do control-wise using your Haltec. i do know the FJO control module is small, relatively inexpensive and works.

since i reengineered my system to include the reg and return line it is almost invisable.

again, congrats.

howard coleman

i ordered the solenoid from horsepowerfreaks.com

The output of the haltech is a pwm out. You can select the frequency and control a value from 0-100%. It will take some experimentation to get things setup correctly.

question about running the meth line: Should i be wrapping the line in anything? I currently have it tied along the stock fuel hardlines. It seems like there could be some abrasion issues.

~ How much power will one 1200cc injector solenoid supports with your setup?

I'm trying to peice together a kit also, and like the idea of running one injector over two.

Also , the solenoid driver comes with the injector right?

The solenoid driver is extra. It was around $100. Still the best bang for you buck system. I looked at coolingmist, but their s-hsv valve can only handle 10gph whihc is 650ish cc/min.

Im not exactly sure how much power my 1200cc injector will support. Hopefully i can get to 500. If my tuner does not feel safe going that far i will have to add another injector. I'll probably just add another 1200cc injector so that if i go totally insane i have enough meth to run a whole boatload of boost....

If you have the Water injection controller (PN CW10010) do you still need the driver?

I'm wanting to do something very similar to your setup but I am running a PFC wich won't control my AI system.

I am planing on going with the Alkycontrol pump sence it seems to be high quality from their discription.

Is your FPR 100% meth compatable?

Is possible to run a braided line to the solenoid? Just seems like it would be more reliable.

I believe that if you run the water injection controller you do not need to run the solenoid driver. The driver is only if you want the ecu to control it.

I did not look at the alchycontrol pump but i know coolingmist has a 100% meth compatible pump.

The regulator is meth compatible. Only goes up to 100 psi. if you want to run higher you will need a different one. Howard is running a weldon regulator.

The fitting on the solenoid is for the plastic line. Im sure you could rig something up, or atleast run braided stainless line forward to the engine bay and convert to the plastic lines.

I think i am going to get some rubber hose and sleave the plastic lines so that i dont have any abrasion issues.

What size fuse should i be using? I couldnt find the info on the FJO solenoid. Right now i have a relay that has 2 outputs: one to the solenoid driver box and one to the pump. The pump needs 10amps. So i need 10+ how much for the solenoid?

Thanks

PUMP power should be fused for 15 amps.
WATER INJECTION CONTROLLER power should be fused for 10 amps or 20 amps if the
optional WideBand is connected.


^^^copy and pasted from install manual.^^^

I've got a question about your FPR, Sense it is only adjustable up to 100psi,if your pump operates at 120psi will you only see 100psi at your nozzel?

1. I saw that in the manual, but that is for the controller, not the solenoid driver. I think I will assume the solenoid driver pulls the same current as the controller if i can not find correct specs soon. i dont have the FJO pump. i run a coolingmist pump that says it needs a 10A slow blow fuse.
2. I will only run 100 psi to my nozzle. The entire point of running the regulator is so that the pump never hits its internal pressure regulator that causes its to shut off until the pressure drops below a certain level. I should see a constant 100psi at my nozzle no matter what. If at some point i want to run higher pressure i will need a new regulator. my pump is rated to 150psi i believe so i should be safe running upto 125-130psi. I will see what steve kan thinks of the situation when he comes and does my tune at the end of november.

If you are running 20 psi of boost would you not need to be running 120psi through hot fpr to equal out and actually have 100 psi at your solenoid?


Hopefully not, because the price of the mallory for is so much cheaper than the weldon

I am not planning on running rising rate fuel pressure. My map will compensate for that. I will loose a bit of flow at high boost pressures but i think my large injector will make up for it. if not, time for another injector.

update:
get everything plumbed. powerd on the pump and it leaks. joy... time to drop the tank so that i can tighten the fitting. i sure as hell am going to pressurize the damn thing not mounted to make sure no leaks... its a bitch to get up there.

one of the random leak spots is my low level float i got from coolingmist. i think it is defective. i might just weld the damn hold shut and figure something else out.... seems like the design is prone to leaking.

ill post some pics when i get home

Take a look at these, Iplan on using one ofthese 2

devilsown

devilsown

I haven't looked at collingmists level float yet so it may be similar.

mmm i might buy one of those low level switches. i also might just cover it in some sealant.

pics:
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...3/IMG_0296.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...3/IMG_0297.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...3/IMG_0299.jpg

Hopefully i can get all the leaks tightened up and ill do some flow test this weekend.

Looks nice Iwas having a hard time visualizing your tank in place but now I get it have any pix from inside the trunk? is your pump head actually leaking or is just leaking where all the fittings connect?

the only real leak is from the high pressure line from the pump to the regulator. its really difficult to get a wrench in there.

on another note, cooling mist recommended that i locktite the threads to seal it. hopefully that will solve my problems.

Tried sealing it cooling mists way with locktite. still leaks. i even used some rtv around the oring surfaces. I cracked the nut at the botttom taking the damn thing off. hopefully cooling mist will get things taken care of. Until then, testing is on hold.

Damn that sux man. have you spoke with coolingmist about the pump yet? hope you get everything sorted out and working without too much downtime.

the pump isnt the problem. The other leak was from a loose fitting which i think i fixed. no response form coolingmist.... If the problem is not solved quickly i might jsut weld the hole shut and deal with it later

When using meth isthere a certain AN fitting to use or will the less expensive ones work just as well?

im using regular -an fittings. the aluminum is coated so it should be ok.

on another note. since coolingmist has not responded to my email on how to rectify the crappy low level sensor i think i have 2 options. weld it shut or epoxy the thing in. Will methanol do anything to epoxy? Should i be using a different type of glue?

I have had pretty good luck with all purpose Goop (in the blue tube).

Give coolingmist a call, I spoke to them on the phone yesterday and they said they are in the middle of moving. So things have been very slow latley.

any updates?

not yet. i had to install a new clutch b.c my act street/strip clutch was not oging to cut it. im running a 6 puck act. i was a dumb ass b.c when i rebuilt my engine it only took me an hour to get the engine back in so i decided to pull the motor to do the clutch job. big mistake...evidently i got lucky the first time i stuck the motor back in. on top of all that i broke my egt probe. I was reading in this post about egt setups:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...dual+egt+gauge
not sure what im going to do. i currently read egt from the rear rotor pre turbo. i do have a bung on the front rotor but did not have a sensor. I might get a dual egt gauge and then a couple of thermocouple translators so i can log on the haltech. i need to check what inputs i have free

i finally got the low level float sealed. I ended up using some permatex form-a-gasket. Pressurized everything and it is dripping between the fuel pressure regulator and the fitting. It is the fitting that mallory supplied with the regulator. I used some teflon tape on the fitting but that did not seal it up either. Any suggestions? I will call summit racing and mallory to see if i can get a new regulator or get it fixed.

On a positive note, i dialed in the fuel pressure on the regulator to 100 psi. Using a graduated cylinder i got a flow rate of 560 cc in 30 seconds. That is 1120 cc/min at 100psi static pressure. Atomization looked pretty good for water. Hopefully my injector is far enough away from the throttle plates that i have a well mixed mixture going through the primary and secondary ports of both rotors. When i have some spare time i will try checking flow rate at 75 psi which should be close to the effective pressure difference when the car is at full boost. I need to do some more testing with frequency. I was recommended to use 30Hz by a forum member running a similar setup. The one thing i noticed is that the solenoid is pretty loud. Although i doubt you will be able to hear it over the exhaust.

Good to hear you got some testing done. I'm still undecided between 2 700cc solenoids and 1 1200cc solenoid. are the fittings provided with the regulator -6

whoops, i just checked my order. i did buy new fittings. The inlet and return ports are -8 straight cut oring. the fitting they send with it is -8 oring -8 an flare. I might try a new oring.

If i were you i would use 2 solenoids and clock them at 90 degrees to each other, something similar to howards setup.

Are you expecting your one 1200cc to come up short of your goal? I'm actually running a "similar" turbo to yours, A-spec's GT3574 I won't be aiming to break 500 hp but anything over 450 willbe good with me.

HC's setup will be hard to duplicate, he has no power steering, that's how he put the solenoid in the 6 o'clock position. I don't plan on ditching the PS any time soon so if I went with 2 solenoids I'de have to figure out another way to plumb them in. But that's the direction i'm leaning toward anyway.

if my estimates are right, the 1200cc/min solenoid should be ok for my goals. The thing is that i am not getting 1200cc/min at the moment, only 1100cc/min. Furthermore, when i build boost, the flow rate is going to be decreased further. Assuming a linear relationship between flowrate and pressure difference, at 25 psi i will be getting 3/4 of the flow rate so effectively 725cc/min. If i run out of alcohol injector on the dyno i will add another solenoid and switch to a regulator that i can run using rising rate.

As far as your setup, i bet one solenoid could do it. im not familiar with FDs so i cant give you any suggestions on solenoid placement.

i dropped the tank to deal with the leaky regulator. I ended up replacing an oring on the inlet from the pump, that seemed to solve that. The one wierd thing i noticed is that when the system is pressurised it does not leak. When i turn off the pump the return fitting leaks. This makes no sense to me but i think i am going to switch out that oring and see if it fixes the problem. for any body thinking about using a fuel pressure regulator DO NOT use the mallory unit. It is a pos. the oring grooves are not cut correctly, i had to use a thicker oring to keep it from leaking. If i continue to have issues with it i will switch to the weldon regulator that howard is running.

got everything sealed up and ready to go to the dyno the 29-30th.

Did a quick test to see the lowest % i can run on my haltech and it still sprays at 10%. It atomizes quite well. I am pretty happy with it. If i have time i will create a curve of flowrate vs % on the pwm output. I have a feeling that it should be linear. I also need to drop the pressure to 75 psi and check the flowrate so i have some idea of how much i will be spraying at full boost. I should be able to get around to this after i fix my leaky oil pan.

It's good to hear you got everything sorted. I can't wait to see how far 1200cc of meth get you. Good luck

Steve kan is coming into town on the 29-30 of this month so hopefully we hit at least 500.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...oo13/dyno2.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...lee_dyno_1.jpg
max power 409.2, max torque 305.7
i dont have a log of the ait but steve said that it was 75 before the ai hit, 65 after the ai hit. We had ignition issues keeping us from going higher. I will switch plugs and add a ignition amp and try again in spring

Not Bad, Few questions...
1. looks like you were hitting just over 17psi?
2. What octane is your gas?
3. how did the FJO system perform?
4. Do you know your max DC for both fuel and alky?

Glad to see you got a good tune to enjoy the car with. I was hoping you'd be able to push your AI a little further to see how far the 1200cc solenoid would go.

But anyway, congrats on the #s

1. peak boost was 17.23psi
2. 93 octane pump
3. the fjo system performed quite well, we did not have any issues. we did not use much meth what so ever.
4. I have not checked the map yet, i set the meth to come on at 10psi and max out at 18 or 19 psi in my base map, im not sure if steve changed it. not sure on the duty cycle of the injectors, i will have to check the map

congratulations on your project. it must be especially nice since you have designed a unique system and had to work thru a number of frustrating problems.

just a couple of observations on your first dyno runs...

i have an extensive dyno file that i keep for comparative purposes. one of the benchmarks i use to judge hp under the curve is at what rpm is 200 rwhp reached. generally the range is between 4000 and 5400. a few gt35s have reached 200 a hair below 4000. you made 200 at approx 4275 which is pretty good considering you have a 500+ hp setup w the GT500 and your bridgeport.

as mentioned, you have an ignition issue. your motor substantially underperforms as it gets into the rpm area where it should really rip. this is not meant to be viewed as a negative comment. it is merely how it is and it should be simple to get on the other side of 500 once various things get fixed.

your AFRs are quite conservative. anything w a 10 on it which is where you were at higher rpms costs alot of hp. your boost dips from 17+ to low 16s near the top also. of course these things could be related and Steve was probably just being initially conservative w the tune as well as recognizing that you may have had an ignition problem.

generally when you start adding a fair amount of meth your torque gains over 20+ pounds so the 305 number looks conservative.

i have made over 100 runs (2000-8000 4th gear) on the dyno w my two meth setups so you did just fine for your first outing. i am sure as you work the tune and bugs you will be smiling.

i do think you should refixture your system so you can run pressures in the triple digits. while meth requires less pressure than water to atomise you really need 100 psi to do it right. the Weldon A2040 ($220 from Kinser) is the ticket.

i will call my contact and see if they can offer the reg w smaller ports that directly fit the proper AN lines so we don't have to add a bunch of adaptive fittings.

for those who wish to run one 1200 solenoid... from my experience 1200 will work very well for delivering enough meth to make comfortably above 500 rw.

i prefer running 2 smaller solenoids but as long as you have 80 pounds of net pressure at the rail you are fine as per FJO.

as most of you know, you tune for the same AFR using meth as pumpgas. my engine shows no knock in the low 13 AFR w meth but i wouldn't tune it there. the high 11s are easy as long as knock and egt (pre turbo 1600) are o k.

next spring we are going to further refine AFRs as we might find we can move into higher values as long as there is no knock and the egts are o k.

having a loggable preturbo EGT is essential for precise tuning. we found we could add a bunch of timing in spool areas as we were too cold on spool egts. you would have never been able to make that change looking at the AFRs which were fine.

ignition? it takes less ignition than using water as an injectant. (this is not a knock on water... it is just a fact). i run two amps and 2 coils... one each on my lead sparkplugs. i run stock trail and my T plugs look great. my ignition fired a 9.0 AFR mixture without a stutter. why i was at 9.0 is another question.

anyway, these are just a few thoughts. there is a ton of upside to your setup and i believe if you tune it right you may forget how to remove and install your motor.:)

i just removed my motor after 4 years and took it all apart. it was running perfectly but i wanted to see how it was inside.

really clean is the answer. thanks to the alcohol. no carbon anywhere near the seals. a light dusting of carbon on the rotor faces. side seal wear in 14,000 miles was one thou!!! from a motor that made 498 rwhp. i will replace all the springs and put it back together. it will be a on the shelf motor as i am building a new bullet that has NRS ceramic seals and advanced design features.

again, congrats on really accomplishing something that many others will follow you on..

howard

I for one am looking forward to seeing your new powerplant Howard, it`ll be nice to see you really push the AI bar.

I did not have my egt setup finished in time. I have 2 of the teamrip egt probes. The E8 can only log 1 egt signal. I am working on a way of logging both egts with the haltech.

I am definitely going to go to a different regulator. I would like to see how the pump is holding up so i think i am going to get a pressure transducer and monitor meth pressure.

The tune is pretty conservative, steve did not want to push it further because of the ignition issues. From what i have read i will probably go with different plugs and an ignition box on the leading.

I have the e11v2, let me know if you come up with a way to log two at the same time.

Thanks and congrats! :D
~Tweak