FC Pre Turbo Rice Racing pics
 

I tought it would be good for reference if I would post some pics from a car of a friend where I am in the process of fitting the kit. the car has a streetported engine, bnr stage4 and AP Engineering PFC. 550/1600 injectors. bosch 250 kPa mapsensor.

the tank is mounted in the trunk, but I am sill lacking a few connection for the 8mm line to pressure the tank. I will probaly have them tomorrow and post pics of that too.

Grtz

Ruben

Some more pics of the tank.

Wonder if the lenght of the lines will affect pressurizing the tank, and its effect at the nozzle.

The installation looks good, and I might have pics of mine soon.

hmmz I also tought about that, therefore I used an 8mm line instead of the recommanded 6mm.

I think as long as the tank is quite full it won't make much of a difference, but if the tank is lmost empty there is about 5l buffer.. if I have the time I can put a pressure sensor in the water line near the solenoid, and measure the response of the pressure on a load step.

Sweet. You should dyno with and without the water injection!

:icon_tdow
 

Problem will be that on a dyno it will be near impossible to keep the TMIC cool without WI..

also because of some nasty boostcreep and follwing detonation due to unknow reason (AFR 12, boost 1,4 bar, IGL 10 deg) I managed to crack the rear plate..

Also I was slightly disapointed when I inspected the turbo after removal that Bryan did not replace the more than worn out bushing in the turbine housing. it was worn out so bad the the rear rotors gate was 1.5-2mm open due too the force of the actuator pulling the gate closed and the play on the bushing.

we then made a new bushing out of stainless (anyone know what the OEM bushing is made of? stellite or also stainless??), I hope it will not seize. and I ported the rear rotors WG alot more to direct the flow much more in the WG then before.

Some pics:

Engine is back together with a new end plate, will now simulate 0-1,5 bar boost with 8k rpm with the injectors spraying in separate cans to find out if its the fuel filter, fuel pump (AEM 50-1000) or an injector or a combination that crapped out and killed the plate

I found the cause for the cracked iron, fuel pressure was dropping over a bar with 1.4 bar at 7k rpm simulated. cause for this was that the pump was seeing only around 9v (over 3v loss in the relay and wiring). so I ran a 4mm2 wire to the pump fixing this. this gave a new problem. when the relay closes to bypass the resistor for the fuel pump, the fuel pressure rose from stock 2.4-2.5 bar to 4 bar due to the stock fpr not flowing enough.

installed a fuellab regulator to fix this.


All is back together and car is back on the road. Did not WOT it yet but somehow even when rolling into boost in 3rd gear at the transition from vacuum to boost it gave audible knock again, afr < 14

it seem to always give a lean spot during tip in, which I still need to fix

at the moment I am pretty scared to WOT it again as I would definately hate to pull the engine again to swap the iron once more, but when I read on the forum, most people first see knock rise gently in the powerfc before even hearing or feeling in the car, in my case I see really low knock reading <10 and then the next measuring row it is 45-50 and you feel/hear it like a missfire.

I checked the base timing 3 times, it is spot on, plugs are 9 leading and 11 trailing, its a fresh tank of 98 ron fuel.

does anyone know a way to verify the wideband is reading correctly? it is a zeitronix unit, whoch does not have a free air calibration feature.

What strut tower / firewall brace is that?

No idea, it was on the car.. :scratch:

Darn :pat:

tested it today on the road, pulls fukking hard with 1 bar! spraying 50/50 based on volume mix water and methanol after 0.65 bar boost

Midrange boost on spring is only around 0.55-0.6 bar after 5500 rpm it creeps to around 1 bar but not higher, seems the wastegate porting really helps quite a bit.

fuel pressure is also nice and stable now, peak inj duty around 75% at 7000 rpm 1 bar boost.

anyone has a feeling about timing? now running at 1 bar 10-11 deg leading with 7-9 deg split

Photo of the fuellab regulator and sensor on the watertank. I will use a obsolete IC to monitor the sensor. an LM1830N

Nice to see some pictures of an FC setup!

With the 'Rice Racing' setup, is the picture showing dual nozzles in the intercooler and is that another nozzle in the air filter or the 'Pump'?

Have you had any problems with corrosion between the aluminum and the methanol? As I understand it, the 2 don't mix very well?

only pre turbo. the fittings on the intercooler are air source for the nozzle and to pressureize the tank.

Dunno about the Alu and methanol, until now there is no corrosion at all visible.

knock should look something like this....

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4431/knock.jpg

your broken rear plate is another supportive result of the need to log fuel pressure. simple, inexpensive thru your Datalogit.

hc

actually once I fixed the fuel issue my knock is way lower.. only about 10-15 max during WOT. I had one occurence where I heard the knock and the log showed 1 line with 92 at 5000 something rpm, as I said afr was 11.3, 0.92 bar boost, 50 degIAT and timing I think around 9deg leading. so I dont know where that knock came from, for the rest the car is now knock free even with IAT above 70 degC and 1.1 bar. (top mount)

Dynatek arc-2 unit died after about 2000 km..and it seems it doesnt like running on trailing only =) will send it in for warranty.

I thought everything was replaced on a Stage 4 turbo build? Also you still have boost creep on a stage 4!

had.., after I ported the hell out of the wastegate runners/ports and modified the plate of the turbo (as you can see on the pics) for more wastegate opening it is fine now

Thats no good. I thought that the turbo was modified from BNR such that it would be fine?

that was also what I tought first yep, I mounted the turbo as it came from bnr.. with the nasty boostcreep as result

How much power are you putting out with the BNR turbo, do you see any reason to change from the tmic to fmic?

Dunno, didnt dyno it, but its 75% duty on 1680/550 injector with quite a bit methanol on top and 11:1 afr, so if you do the math its performing very well..
Good fmic would easily gain another 40-50hp if iat would drop from 80 to 30 deg C

Iat
 

What IAT are you running on this setup, just the stock one?

I can't seem to find much information on the stock IAT sensors with regard to how quickly they respond etc. I understand that the stock ones being open element should be pretty quick, is this what you've found? If you;re running the stock one, that is!

I was first using fd one, but that one was really lazy.. now I switchted to a motorcycle one and its much faster

I understand the resistance curves are different for the IAC's between the FD And FC, did you adjust these in your ecu?

erm, no I first switched the stock FC one out with stock FD to make the PFC happy. but I found the raction time of the FD too slow, especially after heatsoak at stoplight and when taking off it would result in a lean spot as the sensor was stlll displaying warm IAT but in reality the air would already be alot cooler. so then I switched the FD one out and used a I think triumph on. it was geen with same treads and bosch connector. has the same curve and open element

Ok, so the triumph one has the same resistance curve as the FD?

Is the curve the same between the FC and FD? I had the understanding they were different!

I'm running a similar setup to you, modified top mount with twin nozzles post turbo. Just trying to get the quickest reacting IAT I can find.

no fc and fd are different resistance


http://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-Triumph-Sprint-ST-955i-air-sensor-/231043140675?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35cb3e8c43&vxp=mtr
this is what you want

Cheers!

After 2.5 momths I still do not have the Dynatek unit back, after getting in touch with Dynatek itself it seems in all this time the unit did not even reach them and it lied all the time at the German dealer where I bought the unit.. damnit:icon_tdow

go stab some fuckers with butter knives.

got the dynatek back finally. car is still going strong and maybe we'll dyno it in the following weeks.

update?


J.

not really, car still goign well.. only turbo has to come of again at the wastegate arm is binded into the stainless bushing I made, therefore its spools a bit late and doesnt reach full boost.. better convinece the owner to get a EFR in there =)

Nice thanks for all the info. Good thread here :)

owner brought car in to fix the turbo, only idling on1.5 rotor. rear rotor the small tip cracked of the big part of the 2pc seal.

rotor housing is for the parts bin. rotor and rest of the engine are still mint..

I have not really a clue as to why it detonated.. maybe it boostcreeped, will ask the owner. time for 1 piece seals now

Car is on the road again, installed gt35r with synapse 50mm wastegate and NRS 1 piece seals. this turbo is just a different league than the bnr stage 4. spools much better and top end is wild, even wit .82 T3 housing. running 1.1 bar (16psi) with a lot of water. tried a tank of 95 RON, could advance timing 5 deg before I started to hear a sign of knock so I really have no idea what caused the knock that killed the mazda seal. maybe it was carbon deposit starting to glow? I now dailed back the OMP to 20% and running 1% of 2 stroke premix

now its tuned to run afr in high 10's with following leading timing, does this seem to make any sense? bear in mind that this is for standard condition which is temp after intercooler between 70 and 80 degC. at 120 deg there is a additional retard in timing of 9 deg. split is 13 deg

didnt hit the dyno but we're reaching 80% duty with 550/1680 combo at afr 10.7 at 7-8k rpm

Good investigation on compressor wheel damage caused by droplets.

http://users.telenet.be/veerle_haai/...or_erosion.pdf

Update. Some years later.. the engine again lost the rear rotor. it was running 1 pc NRS 2mm. 1 seal cracked, owner said it happened after giving some light throttle when traffic jam cleared.

could be detonation or maybe pre ignition from glowing carbon buildup? spark plug show no sign at all from detonation.

the question is what seal to put to prevent this from happening in the future? 3mm ceramic? 3mm steel 1 piece?