So I have been working on my map myself with some light to mid experience by basically doing everything and seeing how it acts. I can start without messing with the throttle up until maybe 150 degrees, after that I usually have to play with the throttle to start. I have went lower and higher and cannot get it right. Is there any special deal to getting it right? I mean the wideband isn't going to be showing anything at this part so I guess it comes down to experience which would seem I don't have.

 

Sorry, but have you looked into your Intake Air Temperature fueling tables? If it's not that, it's your coolant temperature.

The engine runs at colder temperatures and is tuned via AFRs there because via the coolant temperature, there's a fueling addition when cold (with both colder air intake and colder coolant which compound). So if it's not working when hot, you should try richening up the mixture in the startup map. Should be REAL easy to figure this out. Not seeing cars fire right away like a brand new OEM car is tuning related...

 

If you have to feather the throttle when starting it means its rich. More throttle = more air.
Feathering means 10-30% throttle/TPS signal.
Start a log before you attempt to crank the car and you can dissect what you are doing/the car is doing.
I.E. if you are full throttle fuel cut, or if the ECU is automatically cutting fuel after XX # of revolutions.

Hot/fully warm cranking fuel should match/be close to whatever you are injecting at idle.
If you are using VE for fuel and crank they should be close to each other.
I.E. 50VE for 1000RPM idle at 12" your crank fuel should be around 50VE-65VE for cranking fuel when you car is warmed up.
~150F all the way up from what I have seen.
Ported motors have lower VE from what I have seen.

If you are still having problems, I'd do a compression test. Have seen plenty of tired motors that have hard time hot starting.
Nothing broken, just weak springs.

 

I feel you on this one. I too have issues after car is warm. I have tried playing with the cranking fuel and lowering it as well and it doesn't seem to work just right. I gave up on it for the most part and do like you are doing now and just feather the throttle when cranking the car to start it. I wish I could get this down as well, but its a small thing. I am in for more information.

 

So basically if I try to start it when hot without throttle it will attempt to start but doesn't. Then the next time I would need to full throttle to do the fuel cut to get it started. I do have the secondaries on when cranking just cause it helped the whole thing. It set around at 40% for the cold start and around 25 on hot start. Air temp correction is all at 0 so haven't messed with that one. Crank prime gain is 2% and extra prime when cold is 100. Will try to do some logs for starting.

 

Uhhhh, honestly I would try to go back to the stock settings. Your stock injectors should have more then enough fuel to start, no need for secondaries, and they shoot directly into the chamber. It helped with startup likely because you had too little fuel injected.

Quick glance at what you had mentioned vs on mine.
Off - Fire Secondaries on Crank
On - Inject every period during crank
100% - Crank prime
100% - Extra prime when cold

I can't upload the map for some reason right now, forum problems, but I have 65VE from 167*F all the way up.
150VE at 59*F tapers down by 10 until 131*F then tapers down by 5

You look at every other map on this forum, and I'm sure they are still using the standard basemap for cranking.

 

For some reason I was having starting issues using only the primaries. Almost like every random now and then the primaries wouldn't operated to start. Don't have a problem when the engine is running, but just random starting it would just be no fuel from the primaries and could use starter fluid or the secondaries to start it. Hated having to carry my laptop around so just changed it to have secondaries come on at start and haven't had any problems with no starts.

 

Simply not enough fueling. That's why those temperature compensation maps we're speaking of are so critical. You SHOULD be using an IAT and ECT compensation table, not setting it at zero. Go back to how the basemap came or click the "Auto Compensation Tab for Air" or whatever it's called on the Setup Page.

 

Changed back to the base map numbers and starts up cold fine. Had to update the warm to hot numbers down quite a bit as it was 80 on base and only needed it at around 53-55 for hot starts. Starts up faster without secondaries as well, maybe my old harness was an issue as I have a rywire now. Will see if it gives me starting issues but did about 10-15 starts just now with no problems.

 

Can you post a picture of your cranking map for reference. Reason I ask is I am confused on the #'s you guys are talking about. I am pretty sure my #'s are like 14 at the cold temp end and tapers down to like 8 on the high temp end. or something like that. I am not sure that is making sense. Maybe I am misinterpreting something. I took a quick look at mine when I saw this post, but not sure I looked in the all the right areas. Or maybe post your map and I can take a look at it that way as well. I would love to maybe take a class on Eugene and have some one walk through screens and explain things a little.

 

Just follow post 3 and it should work. My cranking number is right on point with what my idle number is +/- 5. If mine is anything lower than 40, it wouldn't even try to start. Also set my settings from post 6.

 

This is really quite simple. Start car, however possible cold and warm up to full temp. Turn off car.

Error on the side of starting lean so as not to foul plugs and go to start and set a cranking VE for the warm temp value. Try and fire car. If no fire, add VE. Repeat until it fires consistantly when hot. Note the air intake temp at this point for reference.

You can then interpolate or linearize the fuel for the temp values between cold and hot. That should get you in the ballpark and then only once you've gotten out of the throttle-required-to-crank-region you can then fine tune it with air temp and sort the small fuel discrepancies inbetween cold and hot cranking as needed.

You have to be in the ballpark to be able to accurately gauge the effects of changing the small input factors, otherwise you're bandaiding the root which is too much / too little fuel.

Skeese

 

Ok so I am a little confused sorry maybe put this in laymans terms lol. I am posting some pictures of my setup. So I notice the fuel MAP says VE mode. I run my car in open loop all the time. Anyways so your not saying to change the fuel map at all correct? Like when the engine RPM's are at 0?

My car starts fine cold, but after it warms up I have to put my foot on the pedal a little to start it.

Fuel Map 1
Crank Fuel Settings
Cranking Fuel

 

The numbers in the crank fuel table are going to be what you want to change.

 

I would think one would want to get the car to start, warm it up, and then do the cranking fuel table while warm. After that, add in modifiers such as "extra prime when cold". But this is purely an assumption based on the ability to check the box, and not based on any appreciable tuning experience.

 

To piggyback, your crank fuel table is also in mS of fuel, and not VE tuning. Its an option in the tuning mode screen.
That's why you have discrepancy/difference of such low numbers in your cranking fuel (~15.5 @-22F) vs. your actual fuel map (64 @-10inHG @1200RPM).

 

silentblu,
I was wondering about that and why I saw something different. I know I have lowered the #'s in the past in the cranking screen with no success. I have changed it over to VE. Now it make sense from some of the above posts. I have made some adjustments from looking at these posts. I think at least I am on the same page now which really helps a lot. lol

 

Wow this was so much easier when I changed it to VE tuning and used #3 and #6 posts for reference. The car cranked without me giving it throttle. Thanks for the information I really appreciate it!

 

So...I know this is old but why is it that I am not able to locate "Cranking Fuel - Settings" menu! Running version 2.30 of Eugene on Modular ECU.

 

Go the "Tuning - Fuel" tab, then in the sub menus on the right side look for "Cranking Fuel". Clink that and it should bring up the box you want.

 

Thanks for reviving this thread BTW (y)

 

You're welcome, but when I am in Tuning - Fuel tab and under Cranking Fuel section all i have are Prime Gain, Post Crank Enrichment and Cranking Map table options, i am not seeing the Cranking Fuel - Settings from post 13!

You can load the base EMOD11 map from Eugene to your laptop/pc to see what I mean as that's what I started mine with! Could be that there are legacy things from when some users start with a non specific map or WARI or Select ECU's?

 

The Cranking Map Table is the last pic you are seeing in post #13. Just click the button to right of "Cranking Map table" that says "view/edit table". I hope that is what you were looking for.

 

Am I missing something?

 

This is what mine looks like. The basics are the same, just looks like there some kinda differences in your preferences for how it is scaled.