airn

I'm getting my turbine housing, mainafold and downpipe ceramic coated and need to know what EGT's you guys with single turbos run so i know what tempature rating of ceramic coating to get.

thanks

bcty

get 2000Deg one if they have it
ive seen the past few days on a road trip not in boost
but cruiseing at 170km/h for an hour or so around 950C

airn

what are your EGT's while boosting? thanks for the info

TT_Rex_7

Why don't you just play it safe, and go with a ceramic coating that's rated for like 2000+ degrees?! I think Gotham racing offers a cermamic coating up to like 3400 degrees. I don't think you'd ever have to look back with a temp. rating that high!

-Alex

airn

i just wanted to know what EGT's get up to, i dont know how high EGT's get. I will play it safe i was just curious.

TT_Rex_7

Ah, I see...Well, just go with something with ~2,500 degree protection, and you'll be safe.

-Alex

Carlos Iglesias

iTrader: (6)

I KNOW ceramic coatings. Used a half dozen different kind. Some failed and a few stood up to the test.

A quick synopsis of applications:

• Manifold and turbo exhaust housing : 2000F coating required.
• Downpipe: 1600F (most of the shiny ones) is fine

As for individual (exhaust system) coatings:

• JETHOT 2000 and HPC Extreme: Excellent and proportionately expensive.
  - Compatible anywhere.
• Swain White Lightning: Nice and thick but ONLY downpipe.
  - Makes nice stalactites off of the manifold after a couple of hours.
• Techline Black Satin: DIY that works well everywhere.
  - My first attempt at exhaust coating DIY.
• Techline Turbo-X: My current favorite.
  - Must go through an coating shop; not for retail sale.

If you decide to try a DIY coatings, make sure to sandblast the part with aluminum oxide (NOT glass bead). Check your local area for sandblasting or powder coating shops, as they both should be able to do this for you.

As for the "3400 degree coating", you may want to check the melting poiont of steel.

Coating will not noticable effect your EGTs. In a street application, tune for EGTs no higher than 925C in the manifold or 850 in the downpipe (within 12 inches of the exhaust housing outlet).

airn

thanks for the info

TT_Rex_7

From Gotham Racings site, "Cerama-Black: a Flat Black Finish with 3600 Degree Finish Protection."

Like I said, you'd never have to look back.

I also said, go with ~2,500 degree coating. Which is ~ the melting point of steel (depending on the grade) so here again, you'd never have to look back.

-Alex

airn

well my next question is do all ceramic coatings act as a heat barrier or just a nice coating that doesnt mealt.

Marcel Burkett

How well do these coatings insullate the rest of the engine components from heat ? , can you touch any of these coated parts after a good run without leaving some skin behind ? , reason is , I am fitting a pair of turbos now , and with the pro jay intake in place one of the turbos is coming a bit close to the outer fuel rail on the throttle body, I'm not too comfortable with this so I plan to coat my exhaust and intake manifolds , turbine housings and down pipes using the DIY Techline Black Satin product.

alberto_mg

why don't you coat the intake also?

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Or you can be like me and have your trigger wheel welded 14degrees off and run 1900 F at idle. Its great for turbo's. Always nice spending $1000 in rebuilds in one month and have your tuner blame everything else in the world.
Sorry for the rant. The coating do help. I would also use the wrap too.

Carlos Iglesias

iTrader: (6)

Let see...

- Turbo compressor inlet (custom) hardpipe: ceramic coated (CC'ed)
- Turbo compressor housing: CC'ed
- UIM and LIM: CC'ed
- Exhaust Manifold: CC'ed
- Turbo exhaust housing: CC'ed and turbo blanket wrapped
- Downpipe: CC'ed and Thermotec wrapped

Add in the high efficiency of a GT40R and a well designed FMIC and I get 14F above ambient for Intake Temps at cruise and 16-20F above ambient under full (street) boost (17 lbs); no water injection used.

Decide for yourself if it's worth it.

airn

roughly how much was it to have all that ceramic coated? thanks again

maxcooper

Don't touch the exhaust pipes! Even with the coating, you will leave skin. And you'll probably curse. And hop around. Possibly kick a tire. You know how that goes.

-Max

t-von

iTrader: (8)

There's a guy whos shop is near my house that has a 69 Camero street/drag car that runs 9's with a NA V8. He has a white coating on his headers. Even after idling of 20 min, you can physically tough the header and not burn your hand. It keeps the engine bay nice and cool. The only problem is, he doesn't know what coating it is.

Carlos Iglesias

iTrader: (6)

Listen to Max... I know I WOULDN'T touch any coated surfaces that are up to temp, unless I want to have no fingerprints left, like the villian in "SEVEN"!

I'd bet that the white coating on the Camaro is Swain's "White Lightning." By far the thickest coating I've every seen. Unfortunately, it "melts" with the temp experieinced by a rotary's exhaust manifold, which is several hundred degrees hotter (anecdotally deduced) than a piston engine's equivalent temps. It's great on our downpipes though, even if $wain priced.

Pricing: To coat the the UIM and LIM I think I paid $150 to Airborn (my favorite shiney/low-temp coating shop.) The downpipe and manifold was about $250 to have done with high temp coating by A-Spec when originally ordered. The manifold I did myself with Turbo-X which was $140 for the quart size (though I only used about an ounce and a half), and $20 to have sandblasted.

The final part of my thermal efficiency quest is trying to figure out how to reduce the heat that the housings themselves radiate/convect onto the LIM and UIM. Maybe I'll just wrap the entire block! ;-)

Carlos Iglesias

iTrader: (6)

After rereading the princing info above, understand that I've done quite a bit of work with Airborn between my last two RX-7's and there maybe some volume/loyalty discount applied.

Marcel Burkett

[QUOTE

The final part of my thermal efficiency quest is trying to figure out how to reduce the heat that the housings themselves radiate/convect onto the LIM and UIM. Maybe I'll just wrap the entire block! ;-)[/QUOTE]

I think a good heat shield or a blanket type insullation will work well for this.

maxcooper

The white stuff does sound like Swain's header coating.

I've been thinking of some kind of barrier to shield the UIM from the heat coming off the engine below it, too. Either a stainless steel plate or just some aluminized fiberglass suspended between the two seems like it would help keep heat out of the UIM and avoid heat soaking the IAT sensor (well, the metal that surrounds it anyway).

Also, I suspect that a fair amount of heat conducts its way through the metal gaskets where the engine/LIM and LIM/UIM join. Someone was selling some plastic gaskets for those locations on eBay that looked interesting. They are supposed to be some wacky material, but even if they aren't all that space-aged, it seems like any plastic would be better than the coated metal in terms of heat transfer. They got poo-pood in another thread ("just buy the stockers; they might fail/leak; the heat xfer doesn't matter"), but it seems like they might be worth a try. Someone else had a phenolic spacer made for the LIM/UIM connection. That sounds great, and I bet you could sell them if someone starts to make them (hint, hint ).

My coatings so far, with prices:
1. Swain thermal barrier coating on rotor faces $300
2. Embee "chrome look" ceramic thermal coat on LIM (outside only), UIM (outside only), and GReddy elbow $150
3. Embee black power coat on shock tower bar ends, wiper arms (works great if anyone's are faded and ugly like mine were -- they coated the whole arms and there is no problem with the mechanism or springs), and various brackets and junk $75

I'm going to have Embee do my turbo manifold, turbine housing, and downpipe, too. Did anyone coat the inside of their turbo manifold or turbine housing? I am concerned that it might flake inside the manifold and damage the turbine, and I'm also concerned about clearances and flaking inside the turbine housing. If anyone has any experiences with those items, please share.

-Max

alberto_mg

i would think your fears are well founded. coating is definitely going to add a millimeter or 2 to the surface.

TT_Rex_7

If your worried about it flaking inside the manifold/turbine housing, then why did you coat the rotors? Wouldn't that be more prone to flaking, and therefore "possibly" damaging the turbo?

The only thing holding me back on coating the inside of any parts (besides downpipe for obvious reasons) is the risk of it flaking and damaging the turbine wheel. Even if someone said it wouldn't, I'd still be hesitant on taking the risk, but i'd still be interested in some responce on this subject.

-Alex

maxcooper

The coating on the rotors looks quite different from the stuff used on exhaust parts. Perhaps the only real difference is a pigment (who wants beige headers? ), but I am under the impression that it is different. It is also on oil cooled cast iron versus SS tube on the turbo manifold. I don't think the coating has come off my rotors, and I don't expect it to. But I am concerned about it coming off the manifold and/or turbine housing.

On the flip side of the turbine housing issue, perhaps a little tightening of the clearances would be a good thing, expecially if it would just come off as dust in the event of contact. Of course, I don't know if it's thick enough to make a difference, how likely contact is for various thicknesses, or what would happen if there was contact.

I might be a ginea pig on this one and just coat them all, inside and out. I almost had my turbine housing coated already (but ran out of time and picked it up before they had a chance to coat it). Embee was going to coat it inside and out. I raised my concerns and they said coating the inside of the housing would not cause any problems. If no one ever risked anything, we'd all still be walking as our only means of transportation.

I am also not sure that a spec/flake of coating would damage the turbine on it's way out, but I am inclined to believe that it would.

-Max