Who makes the best oil cooler kit for the FD?
 

I'm interested in buying a set and like to get some feedback from customers if they noticed any appreciable improvements.

How often do you road race your FD?

Do you have an oil temp gauge?

the rotary extremes look to be able to cool in anything.
"34row"https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...postid=2565126

i like to start road racing the FD and no i don't have oil temp.

My recommendation is to get an oil temp gauge and then try a few track events. Once you get some temp readings, you'll know if you really need to upgrade your oil cooling or not.

TRUST and its my next mod hehe

What is the ideal temp for oil? 180F?
My understanding is that heat destroys the oil properties. So if we keep it low, it would increase oil pressure and the same time make the oil last longer.

Something custom made, with custom ducts, of course that wouldn't be a "kit", it also wouldn't be as costly.

i think the oil is hotter than 180F........... i could be wrong.

I don't know, I think Mazda made a pretty good one about 10 years ago...

Ideal? Well, I'm sure that's debateable but most people see around 180-220 or so.

The main thing is that street driving pretty much will not surpass the stock oil cooling. So upgrading it just to drive it on the street is a waste of money. Also, unless you know what your temps are to begin with, you don't know if you've good or bad with the upgrade (which is why I suggest getting an oil temp gauge and seeing where things are to start with).

what about upgrading to R1 kit?

is that even worth it?

I’ve talked with several experienced people about oil coolers. A single stock oil cooler is about worthless for road race apps. We’re talking 300+°F oil temps and elevated water temps. A single huge cooler is better, but you are still limited by the small opening in the bumper. Based on info I’ve gotten, this set-up isn’t adequate. Stock dual coolers are adequate, but the ducting plain sucks. Rubber flaps held on by a single rivet (that’s most likely torn through by now) and gaps around the sides. Seal the ducting and they’ll perform much better. For the serious track junky or if you want maximum longevity, nothing less then a CWC, Rotary Extreme, etc. will suffice.
My memory isn’t good enough to give you relative oil temps for each set-up. Take into account that oil temps do impact water temps since the oil does a fair amount of a rotary’s cooling. Figure about a 10°C water temp difference between in inadequate stock single oil cooler and a CWC kit.
I run the stock dual oil coolers and no oil temp gauge. As long as my water temps stay safe with the stock radiator I’m comfortable leaving well enough alone.

1st to 3rd, what do you consider "safe" water temps to be for driving on the track?

how hard would it be to add the second oil cooler to a touring fd? and has anyone done it?

You absolutely always want your oil over 212 degrees everytime you drive your car...the boiling point of water(did I get that right?)...so all the condensed water gets boiled out of the oil. This applies to any car. This is why a 2 minute trip to the grocery store isn't really all that good for your car.

a typical "solid" sweet spot temp for oil when racing is about 240. If you get much over 280...you're in trouble.

good synthetics break down at about 450...dinos around 350ish.

cold oil is not always a good thing. This is why most oil housings have a thermostat built in that won't even allow oil to the coolers till the oil reaches a certain temp. And a lot of kits i've seen for the 7s have them added on. Not sure what the deal is there yet...haven't really researched the stock oil cooling system much in the mazda.

This is based on my experience of rallying a open class turbo mitsubishi.

john

what about adding a fan?? i know someone has done it but in his case, is it worth adding a fan to the backof his single oil cooler? also, what about buying a new universal oil cooler and making the lines and fittings work??

Unless you plan on building EXCELLENT ducting yourself, the CWR kits are the only ones with good, tight-fitting ducts. I'd rather have smaller, properly ducted coolers than huge unducted ones. Everybody learned this lesson with radiators, right?

Lets see, my oil temp gauge rarely move past 180F. During hard driving, I mean really hard, it would go to about 200-210F, thats it. Highway runs 4th 5th gear 60-120mph, would not let it go past 150F.

Is that bad?

Interesting point that u bring up on boiling the water out of the oil, but water starts to evaporate at lower temps. Just look at the oceans of the world contributing to clouds.

It doesn't take much for oil to flucuate from 240 - 280 degrees on the rotory.

I think a good synthetic like Redine breaks down at a higher temp than 450 since it's Polyester basestocks are used to lubricate turbine engines which run much hotter.

Oil doesn't dissipate heat as easily as water. That is why Porsche went to water cooled on their 996 going forward.

I have the CWC oil cooler kit (dual).

Whoever designed the oil cooler kit must be on crack, the thermostat is located right under the black underbrace and it has a 90 degree fitting going directly to the block without a hose.

During the summer, I went to buttonwillow and the fitting from above snapped, and i leaked oil all over the track, I could have blown my motor if i hadn't noticed the oil light come on quick enough, thank goodness I did. However, that incident left my FD stranded and I had to tow it back to the bay area from bakersfield--not fun. Since then i've replaced that said fitting and the fucking thing snapped again after 6 months! I am always fighting oil leaks so i'm pissed off. Also if you use the CWC oil cooler, kit, you will not be able to fit a FMIC due to where the thermostat is located.

I'm going to redo the entire oil lines that came with the kit to make sure that they don't snap again, but in retrospect, it would definitely have been cheaper to piece one together by myself

Would u have gone with another kit or R1 kit if u had to do it all over again?

R1 kit.

stainless steel lines fuck up the paint under the hood of your car. Also fittings tend to crack or break whenever the engine moves due to acceleration, the stock ones are the most reliable and trouble free, get the dual R1's

OK, that is all I needed to know.

Thanks for ur input.

I have decided to go R1.

I say just upgrade the drivers side cooler to a larger one and make a good duct for it.

That way you can leave the passenger side emply to fit something your all going to wish you had when I get done building it. As a hint I'll say I'm still going to use a cooler on the passenger side but its not going to be for oil haha

STEPHEN

I originally had the R1 oil coolers in my FD. My oil temps were 100 to 110 with enlarged openings and excellent ducting. When I went with a single setrab 25 row oil cooler with small fan on the back and proper ducting, my oil temps dropped down from 105 average to 85 celsius average.

"As a hint I'll say I'm still going to use a cooler on the passenger side but its not going to be for oil haha

STEPHEN"



Radiator for water to air intercooler? :D

Where did you get that oil cooler? I'm on the hunt for the largest coolers that will fit good in the stock location. Was that particular cooler very expensive?

Thanks,
STEPHEN

I think the largest you can go(if you have an aftermarket front bumper) is a 34 row setrab. I got mine used from a friend, but he bought his 34 row from summit racing.

i am making a kit that will replace the factory lines with stainless braid...plug and go

this would allow anyone to get a passenger side oil cooler to double the cooling capacity

it will be sold through gotham racing

Upgraded oil cooling is probably more important than upgraded radiator for road racing. Here's my experience:

I have single stock oil cooler with temp sensor at oil filter pedestal.

Buttonwillow:

ambient temps - 95F, track temps - God only knows, after only a few laps, water temps were 225-230F and oil temps were 260F

Thunderhill:

ambient temps - 50F, after a full 25 minute session, water temps were 210F, oil temps still exceeded 250F.

Yes, I need to upgrade oil cooling!!

BTW, for those of you who don't like the full CWC kit, you can buy just the passenger side larger cooler and keep your stock driver-side cooler and t-stat. That should avoid most of the problems that 1FuknTiteFD experienced...

Baker's has a huge selection of oil coolers:
http://www.bakerprecision.com/setrab.htm

Now regarding the stainless steel hoses, here are several options:
http://www.bakerprecision.com/aqp2.htm
and
http://www.bakerprecision.com/aqp1.htm

Both do not have a stainless steel covering which can rub against metal and cause damage somewhere. I talked to Bakers regarding the 2nd hose. Those just scare me since they are only slip on, but they ARE good for 250psi....MORE than enough needed for our oil system. I told them I would be using it for an oil cooling system, and they told me it would not be a problem at all.

As convienent as it would be to install the R1 cooling system, I plan to make my own. But don't wait for me cuz I have other things going at the moment (Like school :p: ) I will probably go the Setrab way and get my own hoses. Which hoses? Well, probably the socketless ones. Bakers has been around for a while and I will trust his judgement.

I did a quicky price out on a big dual systemand it came up around $500 or so with the socktless hoes. The StartLite Lightweight hoses will probably end up being another $200 or so.

Batboy, be a man and build your own :D

When I asked Mariah about duplcating the CWC setup the said they could NOT beat CWC's price even w/out the Carbonfiber Ducts. - the reason CWC's kit is the best is the Beautifull duct work and the fact that all the braided hoses are made up to fit - the Kits down fall is the fact they hang the thermostat directy off the block supported just on a 90deg fitting - a better solution is to make up a short line and mount the thermostat to the chassis somewere or add a bracket to support the t-stat on the block and take the strain off the fitting.

You guys bashing the CWC also need to read Chris Regan's write up on his install. I don't think he's experienced any problems with his install. His forum name is Crispyrx7, I don't have website bookmarked at work...

I've heard that someone locally is modifying the block to t-stat fitting with something more flexible. Mine hasn't failed, and neither has several other local folk's kits, but one local one has. Once i get info on the mod, i'll update the forum. Other than that, you're wise to go through and sheath the braded lines in places to prevent abrasion. Its a tight fit, after all.

Local track junkies have all found the R1 duals to be inadequate on track. They'd be fine for the street, although a nice side benefit of the CWR is lower and much more stable water temps on the street, and particularly in traffic.

Everybody always thinks CWC is over priced and that you can build it cheaper since the coolers themselves are affordable. What makes the CWC so expensive is the thermostat, the hose, all the fittings (AN fittings are expensive!), the mounting brakcets and the ducts. You can go by some oil coolers and some hose, but once you actually get everything installed in the car and add up your costs you'll realize the CWC wasn't such a bad deal...

That said I would never mount the thermostat as the CWC kit does. The thermostat should be solidly mounted and have a flexible hose connecting it to the engine.

i agree, CWC is a nice piece and well worth the money

got a kit to replace a beat up driver side oil cooler?

220k+ miles does beat the car a bit

there isn't much water in the oil. VERY little. What is there though mixes with the other inorganic oil contaminates and creates acids that tend to corrode engine parts. To get out that last little bit of water, you have to get the "mixture" very near/beyond the boiling point...otherwise it will stay. I guess that chem eng. degree's gotta be used for something these days...

No one is pouring water in your oil when the car is sitting there...it is absorbing it from the moisture from the air. Actually it condenses...pull a spark plug someday on a nice cool morning...it's wet with water...or it is in a piston engine. Not honestly sure of a rotary :)

granted...you don't really have to have ALL of the oil at greater than 212 to get most of the drying benefits. As long as somewhere in the system it is reaching that point and has some place to vent the gasses produced...you should mostly be ok. Drive the car for 3-4 minutes...i.e. not fully warmed up but some...and while idling remove the oil filler cap...steam will be coming out.

for example if your temp probe is right after the cooler(s) you may never see 212 or higher on your guage...but somewhere in the motor oil system it better be getting darn close to that where it can vent the water vapors produced.

Yes, some synthetics are better than others.

John

the combustion process does produce some quantities of water. I suspect that is where the oil gets it from.

http://www.negative-camber.org/crispyrx7/cwrcoolers.htm

Some additional input:
1) 240deg F is NOT an ideal oil temp and if you think so you are off your rocker! Oil temps right around 220 *OR LOWER* should be your target

2) The CWR kit price can probably be matched but you would be VERY hard pressed to beat it and even then how valuable is your "development" time. And can you mold CF ducts in your garage?

3) I agree the Tsat location configuration is terrible and a failure waiting to happen. To date though, the rigid 90deg elbow has not loosened on me. And for the gent whose elbow failed not once but twice, shame on you for not buying a spare after the first failure which left you "stranded." I carry a spare 90deg elbow in my toolbox and a pair of male to male adapetrs to remove and bypass the tstat entirely if it fails also. Always be prepared. Cheap insurance to have a couple spares if you are a regular track junkie. And especially if you have something your know to be questionable.

FWIW,
Crispy

Water doesn't evaporate out of a closed system. Fill a bowl with water and then put some saran wrap over it before placing it outside. You'll find the water stays in the bowl ;)

Oil has a "happy" operating temp. Too cold and the oil is thick and not doing as good a job at providing a wedge between parts with small clearances. Too hot and the oil begins to break down; usually the lubricating properties decline first, followed by the detergents. Getting the oil hot enough to boil the water out is a good thing. Realize that getting rid of the water doesn't mean your oil temp gauge has to read high; the local temperatures within the bearings themselves are higher than what you read on your gauge.

(sorry. teeter said much of this already)

I'd be all for the CWR kit if they made ducts that fit my 99 Spec bumper! :(

Uh...what? :confused: Other than initial startup/warmup condensation from moisture in the intake/combustion chambers/exhaust, and the initial "lighting off" of the catalyzer, where is this water produced?

Heh..."polyester basestocks"? Isn't that the same stuff they used to make those disco shirts/pants from the 70s out of? :p:

Nope. Sure can't.
But the ones the kit comes with probably wouldn't fit the Feed Front end.

You know, I thought their dual kit used ot be a LOT more. Like almost in the $1000 range. I remember they use to see a single oil cooler upgrade kit for around $500 and then their dual for almost $1000 when the kits first came out a few years ago.

Whoops, my bad....... :D


I meant to say that the significant difference between Red Line and other synthetics and petroleums is the ability to withstand high temperatures without decomposition. The polyol esters used by Red Line have a significantly greater degree of thermal stability compared to the synthetic hydrocarbons and petroleum lubricants. In fact, the polyol esters are the only lubricants capable of properly lubricating a modern jet turbine engine.


I'll try to slow down on the post whoring and pay attention to the grammer and spelling.

Dewd, actually it's a lot easier if you just cut and paste from the Redline oils website:

Another significant difference between Red Line and other synthetics and petroleums is the ability to withstand high temperatures without decomposition. The polyol esters used by Red Line have a significantly greater degree of thermal stability compared to the synthetic hydrocarbons and petroleum lubricants. In fact, the polyol esters are the only lubricants capable of properly lubricating a modern jet turbine engine.

That way you don't have to worry about "grammer" and spelling. :D

Ah....... a forgotten art :D

So can you just go to your local mazda dealer and get the passenger oil cooler for the R1? and will it mount right up to your Touring or Base model?

Yep.

Here's a parts listing:
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_cooler.html

And as a reference, here's a nice little pic:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/f/l/flybye/frontend3.jpg

Some will say, though, that it will be much cheaper to simply buy the parts in a junkyard and have the cooler washed out, or for the price of all the parts, for jsut a few hundred more you can get yourself the big upgrade kit.