everyones experience's are different...just because you said your setup didnt work, doesnt mean someone elses's doesnt benefit them with a smiliar setup thats all I am saying, but you came off with a attitude "ITS WORTHLESS", and dreams, no, reality, car is making 544 whp with another 5 lbs to go if and when I put a stiffer wg spring in.

 

I believe you owe me a ride...

 

Lol, I pm'ed ya

 

You are pointing out full setup RACE CARS. Why don't you search the boards/archives here and see how many people have overheating problems at the track with FMICs? With these cars, in hot weather, it's difficult to keep them from overheating as it is. Howard Coleman measured the airflow through his IC -- it was less than 10 mph when the car was going 70 mph. Guess what that means? On track, when you are beating the **** out of the car, your radiator is only seeing the same amount of air it would normally see tooling around at 10 mph.

We always get a few responses like yours in these threads. People who have never been on a track always feel entitled to discount the experiences of dozens of owners over a 13-years period....just because some JDM tuners get away with the setup on a FULL RACE CAR.

There are pros and cons to all three setups, but to say the FMIC is good for track use, as compared to the other three, is to have your head stuck in the sand. Or up something else.

 

how do you know whether or not I've been to the track?

I didn't say that the FMIC was as good as the others - I said that it can and has been done.

Get yourself a copy of the hyperrev catalog and look at some of the setups on the street cars - not just the FULL RACE CARS - take a look at what fujita racing does with their twin turbo car. Take a look at what amemiya has been doing for YEARS with their street cars.

There are hundreds of FD circuit and targa competitors around the world who are successfully competing with FMIC setups.

Can't be done?

I think you have your head buried in a set of data which you take as 'bible'.

It was a bad blanket statement. That's my opinion, anyway.

 

Ramy: if fujita has been using a v-mount, I haven't seen it. Their big single and twin turbo track cars (which, I'll add, are not dedicated race cars - the twin car is far from it, yet still records extremely competitive times) still run FMIC and fat rad. Fujita have always used a setup with air intake piping and where the IC sits a little higher than the rad.

 

You're right, I lumped you into the vast majority of people who chime in on threads like this. My bad.

You are correct, it was a blanket statement. However, it applies to 99% of how cars are setup, in the US anyway. Don't forget that temps in the US are quite a bit hotter than in Japan, an FMIC may work just fine on a 70-75 track day, but fail on anything hotter. I have a lot of experience with temp control on the track, both personal and through other track guys here, and FMICs just don't cut it.

Anyone who is planning to track their car at least occasionally would be well advised to avoid an FMIC. I personally don't care what tuners in Japan are using. My view is based on the average owner car, not some professional tuner/racing team.

 

You know what? That prob explains what I thought was a large SMIC (the IC higher than the radiator). So thanks for the clarification. But I know for a fact that Panspeed has a V-mount, as does RE (and not just for sale; but on their cars as well).

~Ramy

 

Yeah they do - and they are smart for running them (I agree - v-mounts are awesome). I think amemiya is running a v-mount on their d1 car, aren't they?

Panspeed, iirc, still run a FMIC on their awesome, awesome track car - probably the best in japan today, maybe with the exception of amemiya.

Amemiya also, last time I checked, still run a FMIC on their track cars. But, yes, these particular cars are far from 'street'.

 

I have already upgraded the radiator to fluidyne radiator and i'm going to buy the FC thermoswitch from atkins rotary, they can get it for around $50.

so if i expand the piping to 3 inch custom piping, will that reduce the lag?

 

that's what i found out from some people on this forum regarding about running the SMIC, they did agree somehow about the restrictive air ducting.

 

Expanding the piping will increase lag, because your turbos are required to pressurize more volume, and the airflow benefits will be minimal. Don't think the opposite either, because then you will start treading on airflow restriction within the IC piping.

 

I built my custom triple pass for $250.

 

so what is the best way around, to prevent the lag and also to maximise the airflow using the FMIC.

 

I know that this is not in a FD but thought that I would share. I went with a H-Mount. And since there is not a kit available I custom made the parts.

This setup was not cheap. Here is a cost break-down:

IC(24"x12"x3"): 162
Rad(Custom, most bad *** avail): 500
3" alum IC pipe(professionally welded): 300
High temp silicone couplers: 40
T-bolt clamps: 40
Steel for rad support: 30
AN fittings for OC: 70
Custom OC lines w pressed fittings: 130

As you can see it adds up fast. I am not too familiar with the price of 3rd gen v-mount systems.

When you are building for affordability FMIC is just fine. When you are building to race V-mount is the way to go IMO.

I have attached some pictures.

Hope this helps,
Z

 

hey, I was doing some research on the topic and I just wanted to say thanks. ur reply has cleared a lot of doubts regarding the topic.

 

FMIC Always worked well for me. Most of the time people don't duct them properly. They work fine as long as air still gets to the radiator. The rotary is not some magic engine with regard to cooling. FMIC is super common and proven to work across many platforms. Usually cooling problems are the result of other issues. Most VMount kits include ducting which is why they do not usually have issues.

 

Kudos Kris on your one and only post to date starting out with "I did some research on the topic" - melts my "use the search function - this question has been answered ad nauseam over the decades" grumpy old man heart


Two cents for posterity from a motorsport perspective - for autocross and track use I had nothing but issues keeping my temperatures down with a ducted HKS FMIC and Fluidyne radiator setup

My temps have been solid and in check going to a ducted Rotary Extreme v-mount intercooler with Koyo Radiator

 

I think the large surface area of each combustion chamber, combined with the increased frequency of combustion events relative to a 4 cycle piston engine does make it sort of a “magic engine” when you’re talking load on the cooling system. Putting an additional heat-sink in front of the radiator, when much better alternatives exist, especially for a street driven car, makes no sense IMO.
I also doubt those many proven platforms would include the street driven FD on a hot summer day.

 

And do you have personal knowledge of this? Or just in the vmount fan club? a 2jz producing 700whp generates as much heat to extract than a 350hp FD. Yet they usually have FMIC.

Plenty of them running around in all kinds of cars with front mount intercoolers. Street driven, track driven, etc.

Again, it is not magic, proper sizing of the coolant system, making sure there is no in the system and the overflow is working properly, and good ducting. FMIC works fine. VMount also works fine. I'm just saying there is irrational sustain toward FMIC in the rotary community, not because they don't work, but because 1) lots of janky examples that weren't built right (similar to people saying rotaries aren't reliable or sequential twins aren't as good as parallel), and 2) V mount tends to have a "cool" factor in the FC/FD world. Most cars do not have room for a vmount.

 

I will admit that something like this will definitely not work though. This is what will give FMIC a bad name.

 

I can't believe this topic still going on. The V mount is superior specially on a modified single turbo street car. Here in FL on humid summers and a front mount you will overheat on traffic.
I had both set ups, well ducted and the v mount is done and forgotten, no need to re invent the wheel.
Drag cars almost allways have the front mount intercooler as posted on the pic above.
Simple as no air to the heat exchangers no cooling, most front mount intercoolers cover the 85% of the front opening of the 7's bumper.
Now we all know that rotaries run hotter than piston engines so there is not comparison there.

 

You are incorrect. They produce more heat at the same power level, there are big hp cars running a lot more power than a typical FD, where they do produce as much, if not more heat, and work just fine with FMIC.

I also know a certain 4 rotor and a 3 rotor with over 1000hp and both have FMIC that appears to work fine. Including on track.

 

Well, yes .. lol.. the block should run at the same temp as the one of the piston engine, but the exhaust runs about 250 °f hotter ence making the engine bay hotter. In a stop and go traffic that adds up quick to the components in the engine bay.

 

That's not what I'm talking about. Take one of the hundreds of 2jz cars with front mounts and running over 700hp, that will produce more heat to manage than a typical rotary with 400hp. Front mount can handle it just fine if executed properly. Just like a rotary can be reliable if executed properly.