to TOKICO or Not
 

I'm thinking about installing a complete set of Tokico 5-way adjustable struts on my 93 RX7 and was wondering if any of the members have any experience with them, and if i should replace my stock springs in the process. 101,000 mile on the body..........
car is stock with the exception of: HKS down pipe and cat-back exhaust, running rapid on 235/45 17's.

The Tokicos are nice. I use them and love 'em.

If you are even thinking of changing springs, do it when you change the shocks since you'll have the shock out anyways.

I have them on mine. They are fine, I like them. The owner befroe me installed them. But if I were doing it I would not have gone with the tokicos. There are many others much more suitable for an FD. Tokicos are great for first and even second gens. I would spend a touch more money and buy a coilover kit. You will be happier in the long run. The springs I have could have a greater spring rate too. I rub under hard corning.

You can use the Tokicos with coilover kits (such as the M2 or Ground Control Coilover kits). Doing so will give you a full coilover setup for probably under $1000.

It won't be a 16 way adjustable dampening, but you don't notice changes through all those adjustments on the more expensive ones anyway.

Very True.
I do enjoy my five way tokicos. I have them on my first gen too. I have always run with them on "5" for the3rd gen. "1" is just too soft (for me).

I usally run 1-3 on the first gen but 5 when I am spirited driving.

I have had nothing but good luck with Tokicos on my car. They are definitely superior to Mazda's stock shocks and they give you real adjustability. I have my fronts on 5 and the rears on 3. 5 on the rear had the car acting like a low-rider. But, maybe your into that.

I just installed mine a few months ago along with Eibach Pro springs. The handling is night and day compared to the stock setup prior to the installation. Are ther better setups out there... you bet! But be prepared to shell out $$.

I've used Tokico 5-ways on all my cars and I have been very happy with them - including my ITS Rx7 however they are also the cheapest adjustable shock. I have heard lots of people favor the more expensive adjustable shocks.

Probably for good reason.

ed

I had Tokico 5-ways with the GC coil over. Tokicos are acceptable with stock springs. They suck if you increase the spring rate . You'll hate your car then.

I like the Konis much better, for stock spring rates and 30% increased rates.

I agree with pomanferrari, I found the Tokico 5-ways to be a poor match on an FD with increased spring rates.

My springs are a little more than 20% stiffer than stock and the car is dropped about 1" in front and 1-1/4 in the rear. I use it as a daily driver and eventually ended up with the fronts set at 5 and rears at 2. But no matter how I've adjusted them, I never found a truely good balance; primarily due to too little rebound control to balance. I still have them installed with about 50K miles so no complaints in that regard.

Sorry guys, that is false info. I know several guys using the Tokicos and GC Coilovers for years without problems (and love the combination). I'm not talking only street driving either, 7-8 road track events a year as well as drag events (and the normal street driving).

It's by far the best bang for the buck combination.

I'm currently using the Tokicos and the Tein S-Tech springs (spring rates of F-436 R-324). Those aren't coilover rates, but pretty darn close and there is no problems with the struts.

i have my car on tokico 5 ways, and i love them....stock touring springs....makes a big difference on the turns i really think they are a great buy

They're fine if you think a stiff jarring ride is "performance" on the street. I found that on the street, a soft spring rate with lots of travel is the best for control. On the track, it's different as most tracks are glass smooth.

Like the previous poster, I fiddled with the Tokico constantly to get the right ride, ended up 2 front and 3 rear but hated the ride. Finally switched over to Konis running 450 (7 inches) front 300 rear (8 inches). Much much better but not enough suspension travel for streets so ended up 400 (8 inches) front and 250 rear (12 inches). I run the Koni on full soft front and rear and it mimics the R1 setting.

I disagree. With the Tokico/Eibach setup (which I no longer use), running 2 or less was softer than stock. I actually bottomed my car out on the street testing out the settings.

Yep, on 4-5 they are stiff, but on 1-2 they are darn soft. With that setup, running 3 in the front and 2 in the rear was about stock setting (unless your stock shocks were torn up).

With all this technical jargon going on, can someone recommend a spring for optimal use if Tokico's are used? Spirited street setup is what I am after.

I really liked the Eibach Springs with them. The Eibach Pro-Kit is a linear spring, so it's very predictable with it's handling, yet it won't vibrate the fillings out of your mouth.

The only problem is that they do lower the front more than they advertise. This can be a problem with larger aftermarket wheels in the front. I never had a problem with the stock wheels, even when putting 245 size tires on them.

eibach prokit...is what i run with the tokicos...great combo

My first FD had Eibachs and Tokicos. Good compromise between cost and performance. Had Koni's in my Mustang for a while. Definitely a better shock for only a little bit more $$$. BTW, the Eibachs definitely lowered the front more than what they advertise, and in my case, didn't lower the back nearly enough.

here's a pic of my current with stock suspension for comparison. The front came down probably about an inch, the rear came down about .75 inch, woulda been better if it came down 1.5-2 inches. Don't know what it is with Ford cars (I'm lumping Mazda with Ford since they kinda own them), but both my FDs and Mustang GT look like they're on stilts from the factory.

What about Tokicos and H&R springs? I had H&R's without shocks on my last car and was very happy with the feel of them. Tokicos are included when i buy the rx7 so i would like to know if anyone likes this setup.

lennie,

you may have the cart before the horse. i suggest you defer your shock purchase initially and buy a set of Eibach Pro Kit springs. spring rate is 350 fr and 255 rear, up 33% from stock.

they will transform your car and may become your favorite mod.

the stock fd shocks work very well w the Eibach springs. i have a shock dyno and the stock shocks test properly for controlling the 33% stiffer rate. they also set the car at very close to optimal 25 inch ride height.

after you have run the springs, then make the decision if you want to add additional stiffness.

don't forget to realign your car after installing the springs as your camber will need to be readjusted. set it at 1.2 neg front and rear w a hair less than 1/8th in toe in fr and rear. cold air pressure 30 front and 28 rear.

howard coleman

I have these shocks and there fine. But my springs make the car one hell of a stiff ride

Isn't it bad to change the stock springs for stiffer/lower springs on your mileaged stock shocks that were used to run on a longer course?

Couple of questions, since I'm thinking about suspensions as well
 

I have been thinking about doing some suspension tweaking myself.
My car (bought it 1.5 years ago with less than 60k miles, for you imperial people) feels pretty stiff over bumps. I don't know if in the previous 15 years somebody changed shocks/springs, but everything looks pretty stockish to me (it's a touring).
Questions:

1) Would stock shocks (assuming that's what I have) be OK to keep if I change springs with this mileage/age?

2) I am looking at tokico as well, but I have been thinking about swift springs (on paper they seem to have some interesting advantages). Did some reading here, but for these springs, different opinions. Any takers on their quality and the ride quality?

I am not tracking the car (at least for quite a while longer) and I have absolutely no interest in drag racing.

I have illuminas on my car and i'm quite fond of them, i've never ridden in/ driven a stock shock car so i can't give my opinion of the difference.

I paired my tokico 5ways with rs-r race springs they were the highest springrate i could find with the most minimal drop the spring rates are 460lb/in front and 390lb/in rear i got a 3/4 in drop all around and suprizing enough the car acctually ride smoother with the race springs than the stock ones. also have virtualy no body roll with stock sway bars.

Tokicos shocks are a budget adjustable shock. While they are better than 15 year old worn out stock shocks, there are much better options. By the time you buy the shocks, springs, and the upper mounts which almost always are shot, you might as well buy a decent set of coilovers. If you don't replace the worn upper mounts, the car will sit too low. I have also seen Tokicos put on a shock dyno, and every single one out of a set of 4 read something different even though they were all set to the same setting. That was enough for me to not buy them. A lot of people will say that they are fine, but I think their opinion would change if they drove on some decent coilovers.

So, you say coilovers even if I am not tracking the car and I don't want "Formula 1" ride quality?
I am just trying to learn here.

Yeah like me, Just would like to lower the car and keep a safe/reliable set-up.

I was thinking about doing Tokico instead of Koni's I have. I want nice ride and stayed away from koilovers just because they mount metal to metal.

I don't really like Koni's with my stock springs (94) I get bumpy ride, more on rebound. I do not say it's "rough" It's just bumpy on softest. When I set it to hard - it's even worse.


If you tell me that Tein Flex will ride better - I'm willing to try.

Listen to Mahjik.

Personally I think Tokicos have crappy ride quality. A quality coilover on the softer settings should ride better. The stock springs are relatively soft so pairing them with a stiffer shock doesn't work very well.

Are the Tokico Illumina's at around $500 going to compare/compete with $1500-2000 set of coilovers? Nope. If you pair stock or close to stock springs with the Tokico Illumina's, they are just fine. With stiffer springs, the Tokico's don't have the adjustability as the higher end dampers. Springs like H&R and Eibach work very well with the Illumina's.

Also, Tokico has a new damper out on the market to better compete with Koni:

https://www.raceinspired.com/p-6678-...1993-1996.aspx

I have not tried these as they are fairly new, but I haven't heard anything bad about them on other cars (yet). IMO, if you aren't ready to spend at least $1500, go with a decent damper and spring combo. The worst thing you can do is get a cheap coilover setup which would be worse than the stock damper/spring combo.

In the end you need to pick what fits with your budget and your use. IMO, if you aren't tracking or competing with the car, buying an expensive coilover setup is a waste of money. However, people waste their money on worse things these days....

even though Bilsteins are non adjustable, they are superior quality and fine for the street

A decent set of coil-overs can be had for $1200 these days, and you'll end up spending $800 on shocks/springs, plus the replacement mounts, which aren't cheap. If I had it to do over, I would have just "sprung" for the coil-overs, but it seemed like they were more expensive four-five years ago

That depends on what you call "decent". I would wager that a Koni + GC setup would out perform coilovers less than $1500. However, I don't care to play "internet racer" so it's just all opinions.

While not on the FD specifically, I've had some friends test some of the cheaper ones like the Tein SS (not just on the street, track time with lap comparisons). I'll just say they leave a lot to be desired. If all you care about is ride height adjusting, they fit the bill.

Who can tell me which setup will make FD handle close to BMW? Ride quality and cornering?

Nothing will. Different cars have different characteristics. My M3 is probably the easiest car I've ever driven on a road course. You really have to mess up to do anything bad in the car. The RX7 is trickier.

You need to figure out what your car is used for... Are you building a dedicated track car, dual purpose car, autox monster or just a plain street car with a little sportiness?

Plain street car with a little sportiness.
Here is what I did to my 540 to get setup I really like:
M5 sways, Bilsteins and OE sport springs. I tried H&R springs and took them off.
I hated H&R's with bilsteins on my UrS4 even though I did custom valving for Bilsteins. I tell you those things so you can get idea on my preferences.

I really like E46 M3 suspension

If I can get similar type of street ride in FD - will be perfect.

Koni's don't do. I feel like there is not enough travel. When I increase firmness it's like riding on a rocks, remove it - they bottom up. I can't explain better then that.
Also I have somewhat heavy wheels - 17" 99' RX7 wheels 255 on back and 235 upfront

Go with:

Tein Flex: http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/teinflex.htm
EDFC: http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/teinedfc.htm
Suspension Techniques Sways: http://www.mazdatrix.com/h93-95a.htm

That would give you something sporty which you could dial back for the street and dial up for some autox/road course action. If you are looking for something cheaper, let me know.

how would you compare the Rx-7 vs your M3 on a road course?

M3's handle quite well and Im going to a track event with my buddy who has a m3 with H&R+konis as I have Tein s-techs with Konis. It should be pretty fun as the chassis and weight facots takes over the suspension.

who sells the upgraded mounts for the front sway bar?

Basically, the FD is trickier to get around the course. The M3 is very easy but comes with some stock understeer. An E46 M3 doesn't need a whole lot to turn it into a fun track car. Your buddy won't be working nearly as hard as you getting around the course but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be faster. ;)

There are several around, however, I would recommend the Widefoot mounts.

I thought the Widefoot mounts were no longer made (?)

Cheaper would be nice :)

I have toks with gc coilovers. I drive around in brooklyn and manhattan alot I can tell you, Im not to pleased. Every time I drive over a bump it feels like someone is punching my ass cheeks. NOT COOL. Im sure it has alot to do with the poor road conditions where I drive and it will be alot better some where else but it still sucks. I will be looking for new shocks in the future. On nice roads though, the car handles like a dream.

Just email him. He makes them based on demand (i.e. he doesn't do one-off's). However he typically has a few laying around.

Are you also looking to lower the car?

Nope. Maybe little but I don't care about lowering as much as I care about ride.

blisteins... you can get them for about 500.... thats the route i will be going with...

Right now, if I were looking to do a similar setup I would go with:

Tokico HTS shocks
RSR Down Springs
Suspension Techniques Swaybars

RSR Down springs have spring rates very similar to Eibach, but they give the car a more even drop.