Then perhaps you can explain what your statement about the Supra's handling and braking capabilities had to do with "dollar for dollar".

It's just I was going through the same thing before I bought my FD. I had the supra, fd, 300zx, and maybe the mR2. Honestly the price turned me down on a supra. And I didnt jump the gun for my FD I searched for 3 months so I mean i did research and lots and lots of searching. Even still I consider myself not to have done a good buy but I mean everyone tries their hardest. I think the point is that even as good as a supra is (not sure what they cost to mod) that an FD or FC an be had for way cheaper and you would still have a great time at an autox or track.

Just my experience with an auto Supra TT thats all. I felt bulkier in the car. I could actually feel the extra 300lbs or more between that and the FD. I mean maybe the brakes were bad or suspension was worn who knows!

They always were rarer. 3rd gen. RX-7s originally out-numbered MKIV Supra Turbos by over 2:1 despite the longer production run of the Supra. Also, people don't sell them as often, so there are even fewer on the market at any given time. Simple supply and demand.

Could be. There are plenty of high mileage Supras around, and not everyone maintains their car equally.

You can have a great time in a CRX at an autox or track and spend a fraction of what an FD costs. :D

The point is that 99% of the driving public will never see track time or participate in an autocross. While there are those who are very concerned with "bang for buck", there are also those who don't want to have to worry about their car as much and for whom the more expensive cars represent a better return on investment from an appearance, comfort, and maintenance standpoint. I can see both sides, my only objection is to those who perpetuate the myth that the Supra can't handle (or brake) because of its weight.

what about the new lotus elise? 2500lbs and I think around 200hp. the exige also

Nobody has mentioned the BMW M3 (E36)? Not quite as sporty, but clean understated styling and plenty of room, with decent power & handling to boot. The modest family-man's alternative to the FD3S. You might even be able to find one for cheaper than the RX-7.


-s-

The Elise weighs under 2000 lbs.

I think the american spec version weighs over 2000 lbs Ill check though but I was pretty positive on that I might have overstated it at 2500 but I think 2100 might be more accurate. The european version weighs under 2000 and the Exige is way below that.

ok...the M3 is like a pig. I would be better off to keep my 00' Legacy drop in a WRX block with STi heads and upper, then do some bolt ons for all around 10k then go to a BMW at only 220hp from I-Speed.

I think what I was going after was trying to see what else is out there for what you get in hp for weight and in looks being the wild card.

The vett is nice but plane, the BMW is no good unless you sink some major cash into it. Just like the 300z, miata, camero, and even the Supra. The FD is the only car out of the box for about 1k-2k with basic safety mods, that can run like a true sports car for under 30k.
If you like are in high school then you may blow your motor or if your just lame and do not take care of the car it will blow. After 4k-6k you will have another car that will still smoke anything else on the road that is somewhat stock for what you paid with the new engine you just smoked. Right????

jimlab:::
said it the best when saying that most will not ever see the track. The FD for fun and looks around town can not be beat. How often do you see a FD, or a supra for that matter. I do not want to hear “oh I see on every day” folk. In Reno and Las Vegas I have only seen 2 on the road just running with some basic mods by the sound and pipes when I drove bye!

We see a ton of 300z and vetts. yuck.

I have no idea where I am or was going with all this but I do know that I wanted to see what other car's were out there that was under 2800lbs with 250+hp that had good lines......nothing.

The main reason I have a can of gas and am flushing it out all over the site on this post here is that I would love to put another car that someone can show me that would beat a great car like the FD. Even after my wallet being empty and buying engines and add-ons, you are still under any Italian sports car that is great FUN to drive. What are you going to go out and get a Ferrari 255 back from 97 for 90k?

Right there, I said it FUN to drive. SCCA time, ya right, I have not time for that, but I also have no time to milk a car with mods until it runs fast like a honda. =P

Like I said, out of the box for 18k-22k with another 3k in the bank knowing something is going to break, what is going to come close for performance and spunk in town and out on the open highway.

Think I was looking for the "magic bullet".

I must say the RX8 with some boost sound nice...for over 3k pounds. =)
Great looks that rx8 but for 26k+then with add-on’s for 300hp? Still sucking the FD pipe as it goes past ya.
:D :D :D

M3s are pigs? I like them, C+D said the only car that is faster and cheaper is the Mazda RX7.

That says something about both cars, the M3 is no RX7 but it is a very respectable performer.

I thought the car came in at like 3400lbs with only 220hp for a 99'? What is the cost for a good M3?

240hp with torque though. I thought the weight was around 3100-3200lbs but I'm not sure. E36 cars are from 95-99 IIRC. The 95 has a 3.0l, all the rest have a 3.2l

Yeah they are heavier, different type of car. But really they have awesome brakes, great chassis balance and a smooth, torquey in-line 6.

Prices are just slightly higher than FD prices I think.

Lotus Elise should be a cool ride but it looks kind of gay from some angles

lovin my FD....paid off and low maintenace (I hardly drive it, ha)

plus the car has the best "sleeper" factor of just about anything out there....I never lack for impromptu street races

so who has the 94 motor trend article where the fd out performs the supra? someone mentioned it and now im curious.Also in the 94 article were the cars used still the touring auto's? or were they the 5 speed models?

How about the Motor Trend test from July of 1993? :D

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/m...ticle01.10.jpg

5 speed in July 1993, automatic Touring in May 1994.

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/m...ticle01.11.jpg

There is more to cars than numbers, Solomon. The M3 drives very well, I've ridden in a moderately tuned BMW that spanks my stock FD3S.

If you want to get into tuner cars and hybrids, get a '93 Impreza with a WRX swap, you could do that for about $16k, under 2800lbs, over 250hp (assuming you're doing basic engine mods along with the swap), plus AWD, room for passengers, etc. If you don't mind driving a Honda, you could build a very fast civic for $16k, and it would weigh a LOT less than 2800lbs. The AE86 chassis Toyotas are pretty fun, lighter weight than most Hondas and still RWD, 50/50 weight split. You could easily get 200hp from one of the supercharged JDM engines that can be swapped in.

I don't think anyone is saying that these cars are BETTER than our RX7's, but they are probably the closest competition in the given price range. This is rx7club, we're going to be biased towards the RX7...

-s-

i'm with lane_change...
67-69 camaro!!!! AHHHHH i love the fd more, but i definitely know my second choice...z28

I love the look and style of the M3. What year would be best to look at for the price with the M3. Is not up keep about the same between the FD and M3. hummm, that looks funny typed, think I still know what is cheaper. =)

in many way the 3rd gen section is like a little microcosm where time effectively stands still....it's like visiting your grandmas's house and hearing the familiar "tick-tock" of that old dusty clock on the wall

in 10 years, there could be full scale global armageddon, but we will stll have Mr. Labreck taking some poor n00b pack to school on the virtues of the "fat pig Supra" and how he dusted some guy with a load of bushings in the back, we will still have the unending "power to weight" discussions, "yeah but it's faster at the track" claims, and exchange of skidpad numbers from 1992 Road and Track

life rolls on.....but the 3rd gen section is forever frozen in time :)

DSM..?
 

Well. I love my DSMs, but...I find I am selling them off slowly to get an FD (well I know I am haha). I have had blazingly fast 1st gen DSMs. regardless of what your experience might be with them. They are very fast, so fast in the drags that most people neglect that the select few people who mod there handling in these cars are very competitive. So...IMHO...a 1G DSM with a purchase price of 1000-5000 and a 15-18K budget for the mods and car. A 1G DSM is (although different in many ways, not as many as the Evos and WRXs) comparable to the FDs from a performance car standpoint. Please consider that this statement comes from driving over 10FDs and driving in them at track events, also owning 4 DSMs, a TII, Civics..bla bla the whole lot . Oh ya...Supras are great. FD guys (and others) still view the Supra as a bruiser car…there size truly belies there handling competence ...but no one can deny the FDs unmatched mysterious race car allure…haha just something about them.

Been looking over the M3 again on the net here. I think that maybe there is some safe feeling knowing that with mods and some basic love it can be as fun as a FD. Just do not know what year would be best. For the money in safety mods, upkeep, etc... the M3 is not that bad bang for the buck. Supra would be fun too, just way to big for my taste.

sadly the US spec E36 M3 is not an M3 by what the rest of the world of the worlds standards. THe rest of the world got dual vanos, a better drivetrian (six speed), and six pretty throttle bodys.

S14 240SX with a RB25 swap is the only thing I can think of that would cost around $20k, be RWD, and come close to the FD for that price.

Dollar for dollar is hard to compare. Everyone wants to break out the numbers and then they want to add in the cars that need engine changes to this and that and blah blah blah. Yea you can build a WRX with a something block and what-not head and hooptie turbo. But that doesn't mean squat. It has to be built. The time aspect of building a swapover like that is enormous for the common man. After you find someone who doesn't steal your money, your parts and doesn't go over his dealine by 4 months, you are pretty damm tired of the project. You can go to the Autotrader and find an FD usually ready to go. Check for the normal pitfalls and roll on.

I paid 6000 for my 93 R1. I got about 10k worth of mods on it. The previous owner was not a car guy and when he busted an 0-ring, parkied it under a tree. I waited until I got an engine at a reasonable price and then changed them over. So now (after some tuning) I am making 350 or so and I got less than 10k in it. Name me a car that can keep up with that dollar for dollar. Granted that isn't the norm but nothing ever is.

As for the racing Camaro from teh 60's being a turner, sure it was. But put some wide tires on an FD and slicks and i'll bet you that FD will turn laps close to that racing Camaro that you are talking about at a fraction of the cost of that Camaro. Also the FD isn't a sleeper. I live in Tenn or as it is known, Honda Hell. I got one race from a kid that didn't know the car was turbocharged. In this Fast and Furious age, who doesn't know that car is? But that's it. I can't pay people to race it. It's that high profile. People know what it is and know that 9 times out of 10 of they cross paths with one, it's on steroids of some sort.

So, you can compare numbers all day. But in the end, the FD is a rare car that makes women swoon and grown men gasp. The styling is still cutting edge, it has it's own look to it and it's even funnier when people still, after 10 years, ask you what it is. You can get your C5's all day long but you will look just like every other semi-balding, mid life crisis redneck that wants to pick up high school girls and pay for McDonalds with a $100 dollar bill just to impress them. No offense, but thats the stigma attached to a Vette. Redneck Ferarri. Yea, you can get your BMW's too, but nobody looks at them cause they are a dime a dozen. Your normal person doesn't know an M3 from an Aliens pulse rifle. They see BMW and that's that. But when they see an FD, they know something isn't of the norm. You can also get your Elise. You can look cool and feel proud that your 30k plus Toyota is getting spanked by an FD. Elises are cool, but too late in coming. They will be short lived. FD's are timeless.

So buy an FD and have fun. But also, as with FD's, Supras are almost always beefed up too and they are monsters on a straight line as 99% of the time, that's what they are built for.